My biggest hope for next year is Matthew Moyer

[two3zone]

I was speaking more to the boards opinion. People are spooked from all the guys who haven't panned out, understandably.

He's very, very good.

There is a long long long long long list of guys who have been very very good in high school that came in and didn't set the city by storm their first year.

 

[TheCusian]

Roberson was a top 30 recruit who dominated the #1 recruit in high school and had some massive hype coming in. Outside of Ennis, a little Lydon and a little of Richardson, what freshman have come in and lit the room on fire with their play in the past 5-6 years? Our freshman while solid have not been the freshman that we see join other clubs and dominate right out of the gate, expecting Moyer to do that is crazy. Battle is a guy who could do that but before we anoint these guys as dominate forces and banking on them leading us to the final four we should expect average play out of them and anything else above that a great big bonus.

Who's said he's leading us to a FF?

 

[TheCusian]

There is a long long long long long list of guys who have been very very good in high school that came in and didn't set the city by storm their first year.

Would you categorize Richardson and Lydon as successful freshman seasons? I would. I expect that and a bit more from Battle.

You disagree?

 

[two3zone]

Would you categorize Richardson and Lydon as successful freshman seasons? I would. I expect that and a bit more from Battle.

You disagree?

I think both of them showed flashes. I think Lydon will struggle if he was more of a focal point on offense. Mali showed a lot some games, and not so much in others. At the end of the day Mali shot less than 38% on the year while playing bad defense. We still don't know what Lydon is capable of on defense from his natural position and if he's going to be driven around with ease from the wing.

I'll put it this way, with G and two successful freshman, I don't care who the two other guys on the floor are, if they were successful we wouldn't be at 19 wins with a nut hair of a chance of making the tournament. Great flashes doesn't = success.

 

[TheCusian]

I think both of them showed flashes. I think Lydon will struggle if he was more of a focal point on offense. Mali showed a lot some games, and not so much in others. At the end of the day Mali shot less than 38% on the year while playing bad defense. We still don't know what Lydon is capable of on defense from his natural position and if he's going to be driven around with ease from the wing. I'll put it this way, with G and two successful freshman, I don't care who the two other guys on the floor are, if they were successful we wouldn't be at 19 wins with a nut hair of a chance of making the tournament. Great flashes doesn't = success.

Good things happen between freshman year and sophomore year. I'd expect improvement across the board.

 

[jsshap]

I think both of them showed flashes. I think Lydon will struggle if he was more of a focal point on offense. Mali showed a lot some games, and not so much in others. At the end of the day Mali shot less than 38% on the year while playing bad defense. We still don't know what Lydon is capable of on defense from his natural position and if he's going to be driven around with ease from the wing.

I'll put it this way, with G and two successful freshman, I don't care who the two other guys on the floor are, if they were successful we wouldn't be at 19 wins with a nut hair of a chance of making the tournament. Great flashes doesn't = success.

When G and those 2 freshman are the only 3 players playing capably for the last month, then you should care. On a personal level, Richardson and Lydon had successful seasons under any definition.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think both of them showed flashes. I think Lydon will struggle if he was more of a focal point on offense. Mali showed a lot some games, and not so much in others. At the end of the day Mali shot less than 38% on the year while playing bad defense. We still don't know what Lydon is capable of on defense from his natural position and if he's going to be driven around with ease from the wing.

I'll put it this way, with G and two successful freshman, I don't care who the two other guys on the floor are, if they were successful we wouldn't be at 19 wins with a nut hair of a chance of making the tournament. Great flashes doesn't = success.

I think Lydon will be fine as being a focal point of the offense. I thought he would have a CJ Fair like freshman season. He was better than that. He's already ahead of CJ's developmental curve with higher upside as a shooter, defender, and rebounder IMO. Lydon to me is the type of guy that you look down and he's got 15 and 10 without you even realizing it.

I do think Richardson will have some consistency issues at the 2. Not saying he isn't a good player, but his percentages have me cautious, and he will have a ton of attention on him next year on the perimeter. He will provide great length at the top of the zone though, much like MCW, Triche, Gbinje, and Rautins all have, so we won't have to worry about him banging down low with guys much bigger than him

We really need Battle/Howard to be able to set these guys up so they aren't dependant on finding their own shots, and hopefully that's where the improvement is next year. In our lead guard running the team, not being the lead scorer.

 

[two3zone]

When G and those 2 freshman are the only 3 players playing capably for the last month, then you should care. On a personal level, Richardson and Lydon had successful seasons under any definition.

37% shooting isn't successful. Even worse the last month, he shot THIRTY, three zero, 30% since February. 30% is capable?

 

[Cusefan0307]

37% shooting isn't successful. Even worse the last month, he shot THIRTY, three zero, 30% since February. 30% is capable?

I guess Mal was lucky Cooney was on the roster or it would of got ugly for him.

 

[GoCuse14]

he stayed 2 though.

my point is..just because one thinks he is going to be one and done...doesnt mean they are. And I highly doubt JB cares what playing time a kid who may or may not think he deserves in his first year.

 

[two3zone]

my point is..just because one thinks he is going to be one and done...doesnt mean they are. And I highly doubt JB cares what playing time a kid who may or may not think he deserves in his first year.

Hence one and done types not wanting to come here. K and Calipari don't have issue with one and doners and they get them year after year. One comes here and he's trashed every post game and one gets trashed when he declares. I can't imagine why they have to think about coming here when other places may be an option for them when they have pro money waiting in a year or two.

 

[two3zone]

Good things happen between freshman year and sophomore year. I'd expect improvement across the board.

I expect it to but it's not a guarantee.

Kaleb
DC2 (before the injury year 2)
Roberson
Cooney
BMK
Buss
BJ

It's not a rule that you're automatically better year 2.

 

[jsshap]

37% shooting isn't successful. Even worse the last month, he shot THIRTY, three zero, 30% since February. 30% is capable?

Very sophisticated analysis.

 

[two3zone]

Very sophisticated analysis.

You said he was capable the last month, I showed you that he shot 30%. In who's book is that capable? I'm sorry facts cloud your judgment.

 

[TheCusian]

37% shooting isn't successful. Even worse the last month, he shot THIRTY, three zero, 30% since February. 30% is capable?

Freshman are inconsistent. He flashed enough for us to be confident he can play. That's a successful freshman year.

 

[TheCusian]

I expect it to but it's not a guarantee. Kaleb DC2 (before the injury year 2) Roberson Cooney BMK Buss BJ It's not a rule that you're automatically better year 2.

Not one of those guys had as good a freshman season as either Richardson or Lydon. They will get better - maybe much better.

 

[two3zone]

Freshman are inconsistent. He flashed enough for us to be confident he can play. That's a successful freshman year.

2 successful freshman, all American season from G and we can't win 20 or get into the tournament? 3 successful players and we're on the outside looking in.

Flashes are flashes. Consistency equals success.

 

[TheCusian]

You said he was capable the last month, I showed you that he shot 30%. In who's book is that capable? I'm sorry facts cloud your judgment.

Wait - you don't think Richardson is a capable 3-point shooter?!?

Crazy talk. He's inconsistent - as most freshman are. He tailed off at the end (another freshman trait).

Sun's shining above the clouds, bro.

 

[TheCusian]

2 successful freshman, all American season from G and we can't win 20 or get into the tournament? 3 successful players and we're on the outside looking in. Flashes are flashes. Consistency equals success.

Right. That's why I'm hopeful that the freshman will be more consistent as their careers progress. Great teams have a good mix of veteran leadership, NBA talent, skill guys, and role players. We were missing quite a few pieces (namely a rebounding, shot altering big man).

 

[two3zone]

Wait - you don't think Richardson is a capable 3-point shooter?!?

Crazy talk. He's inconsistent - as most freshman are. He tailed off at the end (another freshman trait).

Sun's shining above the clouds, bro.

Where did I say he wasn't a capable player? Come on. He shot as well as coney did and he's not a P5 player. I get ones a 5 year guy and one isn't but 30% from the field, not just 3 isn't good for anybody. Freshman, senior, nba player.

 

[jsshap]

You said he was capable the last month, I showed you that he shot 30%. In who's book is that capable? I'm sorry facts cloud your judgment.

If you don't think he had a successful year then you have not a clue. Those are the facts. We are all bitter but try not to let it affect your common sense. I am sure you also believe they will stink next year and the program is a mess. #keepitreal

 

[two3zone]

If you don't think he had a successful year then you have not a clue. Those are the facts. We are all bitter but try not to let it affect your common sense. I am sure you also believe they will stink next year and the program is a mess. #keepitreal

I actually like our outlook for next year, not sure how you made that assumption.

You said Mali was great the last month. I pointed out he shot 30% from the field since February 1st which is a fact. If that's your standard of great I don't know what to tell you. You were proven wrong about his last month and got butt hurt and now are making assumptions that have nothing to do with the topic and would be proven false if you took minutes and looked at my previous posts. You're clueless.

 

[jsshap]

I actually like our outlook for next year, not sure how you made that assumption.

You said Mali was great the last month. I pointed out he shot 30% from the field since February 1st which is a fact. If that's your standard of great I don't know what to tell you. You were proven wrong about his last month and got butt hurt and now are making assumptions that have nothing to do with the topic and would be proven false if you took minutes and looked at my previous posts. You're clueless.

Change facts. Use sophomoric references. Next assumption is you are 19 years old. No thanks.

 

[jsshap]

I proclaimed myself as part of a celebrity death match because of a friendly wager last night, but you 2 have really locked horns. I wish we could somehow set up well regulated/sanctioned matches where a winner would eventually be declared and then the fight could end. It's just a matter of perspective, fellas. Neither of you is necessarily wrong.

My apologies. I think the simple point was this and then I will call it a season on this board. I don't even recall original post at this point, but the response was that any team with G and two "successful" freshman would not be sitting with virtually no shot at making the tourney, regardless of how bad the other players were. So the point was that Richardson and Lydon did not have successful freshman seasons. That is wrong. When I said there were only 3 capable players the last month, it was an effort to more diplomatically point out that everyone else -- Cooney and Roberson most of all -- were unbelievably bad the last 1/3 of the season. (as an aside, I once called out a poster who called Roberson "the most disappointing player ever at SU". That still may be overstated, but its certainly not an unfair statement at this point).

In any event, somehow, pointing out how the rest of the team sucked over last 6-7 games was interpreted as proclaiming that Malachi was "great" over that same period. He was not. Players 4-9 on the SU roster had disappointing seasons, less than expectations. DC could be a discussion in and of itself, and I am excited he intends to return, but was hoping he was more impressive this year. Howard was close. The rest badly underperformed, relative to reasonable expectations.

On the other hand, anyone who watched Richardson and Lydon this year -- factoring in their skill, their athleticism, their competitiveness, their game awareness, and their performance under pressure -- had to be really excited to have them at Cuse, not just going forward but this year. There have not been many freshman about whom you could make that statement. So unless one takes the elementary position that if the team is not successful no individual can be deemed successful, its obvious that Lyon and Richardson had successful freshman seasons. No one can honestly dispute that.

 

[CaptainJ]

My apologies. I think the simple point was this and then I will call it a season on this board. I don't even recall original post at this point, but the response was that any team with G and two "successful" freshman would not be sitting with virtually no shot at making the tourney, regardless of how bad the other players were. So the point was that Richardson and Lydon did not have successful freshman seasons. That is wrong. When I said there were only 3 capable players the last month, it was an effort to more diplomatically point out that everyone else -- Cooney and Roberson most of all -- were unbelievably bad the last 1/3 of the season. (as an aside, I once called out a poster who called Roberson "the most disappointing player ever at SU". That still may be overstated, but its certainly not an unfair statement at this point).

In any event, somehow, pointing out how the rest of the team sucked over last 6-7 games was interpreted as proclaiming that Malachi was "great" over that same period. He was not. Players 4-9 on the SU roster had disappointing seasons, less than expectations. DC could be a discussion in and of itself, and I am excited he intends to return, but was hoping he was more impressive this year. Howard was close. The rest badly underperformed, relative to reasonable expectations.

On the other hand, anyone who watched Richardson and Lydon this year -- factoring in their skill, their athleticism, their competitiveness, their game awareness, and their performance under pressure -- had to be really excited to have them at Cuse, not just going forward but this year. There have not been many freshman about whom you could make that statement. So unless one takes the elementary position that if the team is not successful no individual can be deemed successful, its obvious that Lyon and Richardson had successful freshman seasons. No one can honestly dispute that.

No need to apologize and please don't call it a season on the board over my post!! I simply was trying to promote the idea of sanctioned celebrity death matches! I don't want to see either of you leave, and am against censorship even the self kind caused by fear.

I didnt want to get involved with the debate, but without a long explanation I'll agree with you and say they looked good as freshmen.