My First Look at Dungey and Other Game Thoughts...

[newmexicuse]

This was the first game that was broadcast out here in NM in which Dungey played.

The kid obviously has some big upside. That being said, he is an average runner at best - if he keeps running 15+ time/game he will eventually get hurt & he won't be able to fulfill his promise from the sideline. I really liked his touch and accuracy on short and mid-range throws. He had a couple of long ones dropped - the one to Erstime was a clearcut drop and the other pass into the end zone was catchable, but barely. USF had a great rush, and put Eric under consistent pressure. Even so, he tended to tuck and run too soon. Hopefully, that will come with experience. The one big weakness that I saw was that he showed little ability to throw on the run, which seems to be a requirement for a modern college QB. That may simply be because he is all or nothing in that once he starts to scramble the head goes down & he is looking for running room. A QB has to scramble with the head up.

Second straight week we could not come close to stopping a big time RB. As good as Mack is, he is no Fournette, I thought we should have done better, though the worst of it was at the end of the game when the D was tired and probably psychologically let down after the Whitney penalty.

I do not understand why Frederick & Phillips do not get the ball more often. I would much rather see them running than Dungey. On O, I think we need to have fewer option plays and more north-south plays on run plays. To run the option team speed is a requirement. Compared to USF we were slow and unathletic - not the right formula for that play.

Overall, the team played hard for most of the game. No matter how hard you try square pegs won't go into round holes. If we don't have enough talent to match up with a USF, we will not match up well with the majority of ACC teams. At this point I would say an additional two wins would end up being a nice improvement over last season. It will take time to upgrade the talent roster wide, but a lack of team speed is a definite issue in my mind.

 

[OburgOrange]

This was the first game that was broadcast out here in NM in which Dungey played.

The kid obviously has some big upside. That being said, he is an average runner at best - if he keeps running 15+ time/game he will eventually get hurt & he won't be able to fulfill his promise from the sideline. I really liked his touch and accuracy on short and mid-range throws. He had a couple of long ones dropped - the one to Erstime was a clearcut drop and the other pass into the end zone was catchable, but barely. USF had a great rush, and put Eric under consistent pressure. Even so, he tended to tuck and run too soon. Hopefully, that will come with experience. The one big weakness that I saw was that he showed little ability to throw on the run, which seems to be a requirement for a modern college QB. That may simply be because he is all or nothing in that once he starts to scramble the head goes down & he is looking for running room. A QB has to scramble with the head up.

Second straight week we could not come close to stopping a big time RB. As good as Mack is, he is no Fournette, I thought we should have done better, though the worst of it was at the end of the game when the D was tired and probably psychologically let down after the Whitney penalty.

I do not understand why Frederick & Phillips do not get the ball more often. I would much rather see them running than Dungey. On O, I think we need to have fewer option plays and more north-south plays on run plays. To run the option team speed is a requirement. Compared to USF we were slow and unathletic - not the right formula for that play.

Overall, the team played hard for most of the game. No matter how hard you try square pegs won't go into round holes. If we don't have enough talent to match up with a USF, we will not match up well with the majority of ACC teams. At this point I would say an additional two wins would end up being a nice improvement over last season. It will take time to upgrade the talent roster wide, but a lack of team speed is a definite issue in my mind.

Good post

 

[OrangePA]

Dungey and Frederick were about the only guys who showed up to play yesterday.

I have seen every snap this season, and I have say - Dungey showed me something against USF.

He has better arm strength than I thought he had. He sees the field better than any SU QB I can recall. He is better than an average runner in my opinion - he had very little room yesterday.

He is physically tough. I agree that he took way too many hits yesterday.

And he is a leader.

Despite the late turnovers, he laid to rest any doubts I might have had about him.

To me he is about the only positive that comes out of USF.

 

[Chip]

Dungey and Frederick were about the only guys who showed up to play yesterday.

I have seen every snap this season, and I have say - Dungey showed me something against USF.

He has better arm strength than I thought he had. He sees the field better than any SU QB I can recall. He is better than an average runner in my opinion - he had very little room yesterday.

He is physically tough. I agree that he took way too many hits yesterday.

And he is a leader.

Despite the late turnovers, he laid to rest any doubts I might have had about him.

To me he is about the only positive that comes out of USF.

Agree on Dungey, 1000%. I thought he was a bright spot, but like others, I do think we're risking his health with so many option runs. He's not Pat White when it comes to that, so he's not going to break off long TD runs. He's going to get hit every single time, even though he has a knack for only positive yardage. Save it for the red zone.

 

[dasher]

I came away even more impressed with Dungey than I was going in to the game. And I was very high on him going in to the game. The scramble when he needed about 8 yards for a first and dragged two SFU defenders with him for the first was just great.

 

[OrangeFoo]

This was the first game that was broadcast out here in NM in which Dungey played.

The kid obviously has some big upside. That being said, he is an average runner at best - if he keeps running 15+ time/game he will eventually get hurt & he won't be able to fulfill his promise from the sideline. I really liked his touch and accuracy on short and mid-range throws. He had a couple of long ones dropped - the one to Erstime was a clearcut drop and the other pass into the end zone was catchable, but barely. USF had a great rush, and put Eric under consistent pressure. Even so, he tended to tuck and run too soon. Hopefully, that will come with experience. The one big weakness that I saw was that he showed little ability to throw on the run, which seems to be a requirement for a modern college QB. That may simply be because he is all or nothing in that once he starts to scramble the head goes down & he is looking for running room. A QB has to scramble with the head up.

Second straight week we could not come close to stopping a big time RB. As good as Mack is, he is no Fournette, I thought we should have done better, though the worst of it was at the end of the game when the D was tired and probably psychologically let down after the Whitney penalty.

I do not understand why Frederick & Phillips do not get the ball more often. I would much rather see them running than Dungey. On O, I think we need to have fewer option plays and more north-south plays on run plays. To run the option team speed is a requirement. Compared to USF we were slow and unathletic - not the right formula for that play.

Overall, the team played hard for most of the game. No matter how hard you try square pegs won't go into round holes. If we don't have enough talent to match up with a USF, we will not match up well with the majority of ACC teams. At this point I would say an additional two wins would end up being a nice improvement over last season. It will take time to upgrade the talent roster wide, but a lack of team speed is a definite issue in my mind.

I don't buy the talent / speed argument. This was the same team that looked like it had no problem hanging with LSU athletically two weeks ago? Are we now saying that SFU is more athletic team than LSU? The talent/athleticism argument is a crutch for the coaches. Let's call this what it is, Lester had a horrible game plan going into the game, our secondary is not ready yet, which LSU also exposed. If this team played like it did the second half of LSU we would have won. However they didn't show up with the same focus and intensity and that's on the coaches.

Since day one my biggest criticism of this staff has been that the team doesn't show up and the game plan is too conservative when there are expectations... This was just yet another example. We don't meet the ill beat you with mine and then I'll beat you with yours test. This is the big reason why I want HCSS gone after this year... Ha and his teams come up small over and over again.

I hope he beats UVA and doesn't lay an egg against Pitt.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Running option is a good wrinkle against the better teams. Against a team that SU is better than, I'd like to see more spreading the field and letting Fredericks run against a 6 man box. You create space for Erv, Estime and Ish and use Lewis against LB's.

Agree that watching Dungey lead the team in rushing attempts again, doesn't seem like the best use of talent on the offense. He's got the ability to throw the ball, with a little running mixed in (like Nassib).

 

[newmexicuse]

I don't buy the talent / speed argument. This was the same team that looked like it had no problem hanging with LSU athletically two weeks ago? Are we now saying that SFU is more athletic team than LSU? The talent/athleticism argument is a crutch for the coaches. Let's call this what it is, Lester had a horrible game plan going into the game, our secondary is not ready yet, which LSU also exposed. If this team played like it did the second half of LSU we would have won. However they didn't show up with the same focus and intensity and that's on the coaches.

Since day one my biggest criticism of this staff has been that the team doesn't show up and the game plan is too conservative when there are expectations... This was just yet another example. We don't meet the ill beat you with mine and then I'll beat you with yours test. This is the big reason why I want HCSS gone after this year... Ha and his teams come up small over and over again.

I hope he beats UVA and doesn't lay an egg against Pitt.

Just because we hung w LSU it doesn't mean that we matched up with them athletically. We didn't. As for Lester's game plan, what I did not like were all the option calls. It was correct to start conservatively since Dungey had missed a couple of weeks. The game plan expanded as Dungey got his feet wet. Hopefully next week we come out swinging.

 

[djorange1989]

We will have to come out swinging if our D plays like that again. UVA isn't very good but they can throw the ball. We made Flowers look like an All American after all. Dungey is very impressive. I am not worried about our offense if we get the ball to Fredericks and Erv a lot more. The O Line and the D as a whole need to show up next week.

 

[JSOrange97]

Just because we hung w LSU it doesn't mean that we matched up with them athletically. We didn't. As for Lester's game plan, what I did not like were all the option calls. It was correct to start conservatively since Dungey had missed a couple of weeks. The game plan expanded as Dungey got his feet wet. Hopefully next week we come out swinging.

The game plan also expanded because the game started to get out of hand. We needed to start moving the ball via the air and less conservative plays than when we started out.

 

[Nahson]

Lol any criticism of Dungey after last nights game is just dumb, sorry. "Hey, we know you're a freshman but uhmmm can you go out there, on your first road game, play from behind all night, and try to basically win the game for us by yourself? Great, thanks!" Without Dungey (and say we replace him with any other Qb on this roster, Hunt included), we score maybe 10 points last night.

 

[PAcuse]

It was also the first time Dungey faced a 4-2-5 defense. He had to run a lot because of pressure and no one getting open. I don't think Lester would ever call that many run plays for a QB. The kid has shown he can throw on the run in the other games. In time he will be one of the best to have played at SU. He has the "it" factor for sure.

 

[Crusty]

This was the first game that was broadcast out here in NM in which Dungey played.

The kid obviously has some big upside. That being said, he is an average runner at best - if he keeps running 15+ time/game he will eventually get hurt & he won't be able to fulfill his promise from the sideline. I really liked his touch and accuracy on short and mid-range throws. He had a couple of long ones dropped - the one to Erstime was a clearcut drop and the other pass into the end zone was catchable, but barely. USF had a great rush, and put Eric under consistent pressure. Even so, he tended to tuck and run too soon. Hopefully, that will come with experience. The one big weakness that I saw was that he showed little ability to throw on the run, which seems to be a requirement for a modern college QB. That may simply be because he is all or nothing in that once he starts to scramble the head goes down & he is looking for running room. A QB has to scramble with the head up.

Second straight week we could not come close to stopping a big time RB. As good as Mack is, he is no Fournette, I thought we should have done better, though the worst of it was at the end of the game when the D was tired and probably psychologically let down after the Whitney penalty.

I do not understand why Frederick & Phillips do not get the ball more often. I would much rather see them running than Dungey. On O, I think we need to have fewer option plays and more north-south plays on run plays. To run the option team speed is a requirement. Compared to USF we were slow and unathletic - not the right formula for that play.

Overall, the team played hard for most of the game. No matter how hard you try square pegs won't go into round holes. If we don't have enough talent to match up with a USF, we will not match up well with the majority of ACC teams. At this point I would say an additional two wins would end up being a nice improvement over last season. It will take time to upgrade the talent roster wide, but a lack of team speed is a definite issue in my mind.

You need to see other games. Dungey throws extremely well on the run. He is also much better than an average runner.

 

[Nick44]

Shafer MUST address the amount of hits this week that Dungey takes. If he gets injured and is out an extended period, this season is over. Protect your biggest assets.

 

[upperdeck]

usf has issues but it was not because they lacked athletic players with talent.. they have coaching issues.

 

[HoustonCuse]

My first time seeing him also and I agree will most of the points made in the original post. He looked horrible in the first half but really solid in the second. Overall the team is fairly poor but with some good omens for the future. On several really nice plays they were true freshman making all the magic happen.

Three days ago people were posting that Dungey would be a heisman finalist this year and the mob flamed me hard for questioning that. He impressed me with his accuracy and arm strength on the long throws and made a really nice play off a scramble at least once. All reason to believe he will pan out to being a very good QB for us over the next four years. He did give up on the pocket too quick and resulted in too much battering especially coming off the head injury but he will learn that.

 

[007]

It was also the first time Dungey faced a 4-2-5 defense. He had to run a lot because of pressure and no one getting open. I don't think Lester would ever call that many run plays for a QB. The kid has shown he can throw on the run in the other games. In time he will be one of the best to have played at SU. He has the "it" factor for sure.

FWIW, he has faced nickel packages in every game he has played in this year, and I'm sure everyday in practice. This was not a new look for him.

I agree that few of those were designed QB runs from the snap; some were just bad zone/option reads; some were b/c he ran from the pocket too soon (or so it seemed on TV); some were do to real pressure; and some were because he saw a seam and went for it.

One of Dungey's best skills iIMO s how well he reads and throws when the pocket is moving - bootlegs, roll outs, waggles. I'd like to see a lot more of those play calls.

 

[newmexicuse]

FWIW, he has faced nickel packages in every game he has played in this year, and I'm sure everyday in practice. This was not a new look for him.

I agree that few of those were designed QB runs from the snap; some were just bad zone/option reads; some were b/c he ran from the pocket too soon (or so it seemed on TV); some were do to real pressure; and some were because he saw a seam and went for it.

One of Dungey's best skills iIMO s how well he reads and throws when the pocket is moving - bootlegs, roll outs, waggles. I'd like to see a lot more of those play calls.

You have some good points. It seemed that there were few or no play calls to try and alleviate the rush by moving the pocket and or having rollout/option plays that were designed as pass first as opposed to being designed as either runs or read and reacts. Others here say Dungey throws well on the run. It was not in evidence yesterday, but maybe it had to do with his missing a couple of games and the way the staff called plays. I would like to see how he does on those types of (designed) plays in upcoming games.

 

[PAcuse]

FWIW, he has faced nickel packages in every game he has played in this year, and I'm sure everyday in practice. This was not a new look for him.

I agree that few of those were designed QB runs from the snap; some were just bad zone/option reads; some were b/c he ran from the pocket too soon (or so it seemed on TV); some were do to real pressure; and some were because he saw a seam and went for it.

One of Dungey's best skills iIMO s how well he reads and throws when the pocket is moving - bootlegs, roll outs, waggles. I'd like to see a lot more of those play calls.

They are not the same defense. The main difference between the 4-2-5 and the nickel is that the nickel replaces a linebacker with an extra corner in obvious passing downs or against teams with no real run game to speak of.
The 4-2-5 replaces a linebacker with a 3rd safety and is a direct response to the spread offense. With the right personnel, the 4-2-5 will contain the spread's passing threat while still providing protection against the run game (see TCU). He has seen the nickel from time to time. This is his first time seeing a defense that plays 4 defensive lineman, 2 linebackers, 2 CB's, and 3 safeties as it's base defense.

 

[TheCusian]

Lester said the first half he missed reads both running the option and passing downfield. The second half he played like himself.

Young = inconsistent. We just need him to grow up quickly.

 

[SWC75]

At this point I'm choosing to look at this game as a bad game by a potentially good team. I think LSU was not playing at their highest level when they played us and we we were not playing at our highest level vs. USF. Maybe the kids will get mad at themselves and come out and play much better this week. If they play poorly at Virginia, then I'll have reassess things.