My Green Question...z

[CJOJ]

i'll see if i can find it. it was around noon yesterday during a recruiting spot before all games started on ESPN

Yea - that would be great if you can find it. I'd love to see the clip. Have been looking on twitter and google and can't find it anywhere. Hard to believe a national analyst could make that kind of accusation on an ESPN platform and it not get any buzz.

Even if he did, hard to imagine anything would come of it. Probably nearly impossible to prove unless they were totally careless.

 

[two3zone]

I give up. You can lead a horse to water...

RF, you're a smart guy, come on... Outside of "bag-o-money" you can't see reasons why UK wouldn't be more attractive than Syracuse for Green? Hell, Green probably wouldn't even start next year for us when we may not even have a great team while he will start for a top 5 one.

 

[RF2044]

RF, you're a smart guy, come on... Outside of "bag-o-money" you can't see reasons why UK wouldn't be more attractive than Syracuse for Green? Hell, Green probably wouldn't even start next year for us when we may not even have a great team while he will start for a top 5 one.

Sure there are--and I have repeatedly stated that I understand / acknowledge what those reasons would be in favor of UK.

What I don't understand is how in the face of mounting evidence, you can't acknowledge that money might be involved. Other than this is the unyielding stance you've taken for years, and refuse to capitulate on. The coaches believe something happened, a source close to Green "admitted" that something happened, and Seth Greenberg insinuated on ESPN that something happened [draw your own conclusions about who his source was]--so you might want to rethink your stance.

PS--Green absolutely would have started for us. C'mon.

 

[two3zone]

Sure there are--and I have repeatedly stated that I understand / acknowledge what those reasons would be in favor of UK.

What I don't understand is how in the face of mounting evidence, you can't acknowledge that money might be involved. Other than this is the unyielding stance you've taken for years, and refuse to capitulate on. The coaches believe something happened, a source close to Green "admitted" that something happened, and Seth Greenberg insinuated on ESPN that something happened [draw your own conclusions about who his source was]--so you might want to rethink your stance.

PS--Green absolutely would have started for us. C'mon.

Link to the Seth Greenberg quote?

So Frank goes to the bench?

 

[RF2044]

Link to the Seth Greenberg quote?

So Frank goes to the bench?

Let's see what Cusefan0307 comes up with.

 

[Day2]

If that's all it took, then his Plan A crap is pretty weak.

"Plan A" as a slogan is weak.

 

[jordoo]

"Plan A" as a slogan is weak.

Its on my list of troubling things recruits say right under "SU is my dream school"

 

[81South]

Some day Cal will write a book about his dealings on the recruiting trail...should be full of juicy nuggets.

 

[GooseMutt]

Doe

Technically, thats not what he said. He said he was going to go wherever he got a "bag." So that leaves the possibility, that SU didn't offer a "bag" because clearly, we didn't get him. With the amount of time he spent around the SU program and visiting, etc over the past 2 years, one would assume that we could have gotten that signed LOI instantly upon handing over such "bag" at any point. We didn't and so he waited until somebody was willing to hand it over.

We don't have the boosters Kentucky has or our facilities would have been upgraded years ago. Google Kentucky boosters Google ours . After thus BS with ncaa sanctions you can't believe we have bags or capacity for bags

 

[Day2]

PS--Green absolutely would have started for us. C'mon.

I agree, but for those who think he was truly interested in coming here (I don't), is it possible he went to the Colgate game, saw Howard starting ahead of Gillon and Battle, and wondered if he might be coming off the bench as a freshman?

 

[jordoo]

I agree, but for those who think he was truly interested in coming here (I don't), is it possible he went to the Colgate game, saw Howard starting ahead of Gillon and Battle, and wondered if he might be coming off the bench as a freshman?

He might be coming off the bench behind Young and Briscoe next year. Briscoe is not big enough or athletic enough to garner NBA interest with that broken jumper of his. I could see him coming back of course Cal might push him out the door, who knows. I do know that Cal/UK has had Young as their first choice at PG all along and won't stop recruiting him.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Link to the Seth Greenberg quote?

So Frank goes to the bench?

You don't think Quade and Howard would have played together?

Again I know you think UK is great, but why were they bad before Calipari showed up? It's not like every coach wins there.

 

[SoBeCuse]

The more and more I dig, read, and listen to people like Francis; the more I'm glad this kid didn't sign. SU fill be fine. It shows what kind of character this kid has KNOWING he was plan A (the ONLY plan) yet he continued to come up here, lead the coaches on, etc., giving them no other option to pursue. Of course, this is on the staff also for handling it that way a la Battle and not giving Quade a deadline. Who knows, maybe he met a chick at a party up here a few times and wanted to keep coming back to the Cuse to hit it. I don't believe he truly wanted to come here the past few months. Like Francis said; a silent verbal is meaningless ultimately.

I get that UK is a more attractive place for a diva like him since they garner a huge media spotlight and he can get paid most likely before and then after the process when he goes pro. I'm sure he's a competitive guy but I could see him being a headcase to coach at times. He'll probably do fine at UK, play with some sick talent, but this isn't a Trevon Duval, Russell Westbrook, or Chris Paul-type talent, imo. We'll be fine.

 

[Day2]

The more and more I dig, read, and listen to people like Francis; the more I'm glad this kid didn't sign. SU fill be fine. It shows what kind of character this kid has KNOWING he was plan A (the ONLY plan) yet he continued to come up here, lead the coaches on, etc., giving them no other option to pursue. Of course, this is on the staff also for handling it that way a la Battle and not giving Quade a deadline. Who knows, maybe he met a chick at a party up here a few times and wanted to keep coming back to the Cuse to hit it. I don't believe he truly wanted to come here the past few months. Like Francis said; a silent verbal is meaningless ultimately.

I get that UK is a more attractive place for a diva like him since they garner a huge media spotlight and he can get paid most likely before and then after the process when he goes pro. I'm sure he's a competitive guy but I could see him being a headcase to coach at times. He'll probably do fine at UK, play with some sick talent, but this isn't a Trevon Duval, Russell Westbrook, or Chris Paul-type talent, imo. We'll be fine.

Agreed. If we're being honest, he was a bit of square peg anyway. Too small for the zone. And I doubt Diallo, Bamba, Richards were going to follow just because Green signed.

 

[pfister1]

Sure there are--and I have repeatedly stated that I understand / acknowledge what those reasons would be in favor of UK.

What I don't understand is how in the face of mounting evidence, you can't acknowledge that money might be involved. Other than this is the unyielding stance you've taken for years, and refuse to capitulate on. The coaches believe something happened, a source close to Green "admitted" that something happened, and Seth Greenberg insinuated on ESPN that something happened [draw your own conclusions about who his source was]--so you might want to rethink your stance.

PS--Green absolutely would have started for us. C'mon.

Having listened to Francis' podcast I am looking at the Green recruitment very differently. UK didn't just sweep in out of nowhere on Tuesday and break up a firm relationship between us and Green. I interpreted what Francis said in his podcast to suggest that we were never as "in" with Green as we all thought (maybe largely led in that direction by a certain source in the academic support department). I could be wrong, but thought Francis said Green never told us/reffirmed (after UK offered) that we were his top destination; and in fact, his actions in withholding a public verbal commitment - when we wanted/needed him to be recuiting others for us, attending UK's midnight madness, taking several officials etc. suggested that we really should have been pressing hard for him to explain what the hell he was thinking - before we cut ties with other options.

It sounds like Green was always looking for what would be perceived as the "best/most prestigious" offer he could get. When that finally came from UK over the summer we were in trouble with him, but just didn't realize it. Maybe we didn't recognize it because Green still thought Kentucky's offer was to play behind one of the more highly recruiting PGs that they will still after?

This looks to me more like the staff got caught with their pants down, then UK showed up at the last minute and lured a firm commitment away with money. I think they finally told a kid who wanted to be the top option at UK what he was waiting to hear... that the other PG prospects were headed in different directions - now making Quade UK's Plan A.

And as far as Seth Greenberg goes, until someone can find videotape of what he said, I don't believe he said it or, alternatively, when you actually hear his words the interpretation of what he said given his words here on this board will turn out to be a strained one at best.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Having listened to Francis' podcast I am looking at the Green recruitment very differently. UK didn't just sweep in out of nowhere on Tuesday and break up a firm relationship between us and Green. I interpreted what Francis said in his podcast to suggest that we were never as "in" with Green as we all thought (maybe largely led in that direction by a certain source in the academic support department). I could be wrong, but thought Francis said Green never told us/reffirmed (after UK offered) that we were his top destination; and in fact, his actions in withholding a public verbal commitment - when we wanted/needed him to be recuiting others for us, attending UK's midnight madness, taking several officials etc. suggested that we really should have been pressing hard for him to explain what the hell he was thinking - before we cut ties with other options.

It sounds like Green was always looking for what would be perceived as the "best/most prestigious" offer he could get. When that finally came from UK over the summer we were in trouble with him, but just didn't realize it. Maybe we didn't recognize it because Green still thought Kentucky's offer was to play behind one of the more highly recruiting PGs that they will still after?

This looks to me more like the staff got caught with their pants down, then UK showed up at the last minute and lured a firm commitment away with money. I think they finally told a kid who wanted to be the top option at UK what he was waiting to hear... that the other PG prospects were headed in different directions - now making Quade UK's Plan A.

And as far as Seth Greenberg goes, until someone can find videotape of what he said, I don't believe he said it or, alternatively, when you actually hear his words the interpretation of what he said given his words here on this board will turn out to be a strained one at best.

Yeah I can't find the Greenberg stuff anywhere. Kind of wish I didn't post it now along with whoever else did because it's just become one big pissing match on how to interpret peoples words. At the end of the day it doesn't matter and what's done is done.

 

[RF2044]

Having listened to Francis' podcast I am looking at the Green recruitment very differently. UK didn't just sweep in out of nowhere on Tuesday and break up a firm relationship between us and Green. I interpreted what Francis said in his podcast to suggest that we were never as "in" with Green as we all thought (maybe largely led in that direction by a certain source in the academic support department). I could be wrong, but thought Francis said Green never told us/reffirmed (after UK offered) that we were his top destination; and in fact, his actions in withholding a public verbal commitment - when we wanted/needed him to be recuiting others for us, attending UK's midnight madness, taking several officials etc. suggested that we really should have been pressing hard for him to explain what the hell he was thinking - before we cut ties with other options.

It sounds like Green was always looking for what would be perceived as the "best/most prestigious" offer he could get. When that finally came from UK over the summer we were in trouble with him, but just didn't realize it. Maybe we didn't recognize it because Green still thought Kentucky's offer was to play behind one of the more highly recruiting PGs that they will still after?

This looks to me more like the staff got caught with their pants down, then UK showed up at the last minute and lured a firm commitment away with money. I think they finally told a kid who wanted to be the top option at UK what he was waiting to hear... that the other PG prospects were headed in different directions - now making Quade UK's Plan A.

And as far as Seth Greenberg goes, until someone can find videotape of what he said, I don't believe he said it or, alternatively, when you actually hear his words the interpretation of what he said given his words here on this board will turn out to be a strained one at best.

Here's my response to your intelligent, well laid out post: Francis is a tremendous source of information for the board, and he brings a true insider perspective. But I'd caution that Francis's take about Green doesn't necessarily cover every relevant angle /convey 100% of the relevant data. It sounds like Green DID in fact commit to us last week [people are free to believe or not believe that, but based upon who that info comes from, I believe it] prior to backing out.

And as far as Seth Greenberg goes, you don't want to believe it happened--that's fine. It was said on national television, and someone will eventually be able to find a link. And it isn't my interpretation at all--several posters have commented on it, who saw it live.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

Having listened to Francis' podcast I am looking at the Green recruitment very differently. UK didn't just sweep in out of nowhere on Tuesday and break up a firm relationship between us and Green. I interpreted what Francis said in his podcast to suggest that we were never as "in" with Green as we all thought (maybe largely led in that direction by a certain source in the academic support department). I could be wrong, but thought Francis said Green never told us/reffirmed (after UK offered) that we were his top destination; and in fact, his actions in withholding a public verbal commitment - when we wanted/needed him to be recuiting others for us, attending UK's midnight madness, taking several officials etc. suggested that we really should have been pressing hard for him to explain what the hell he was thinking - before we cut ties with other options.

It sounds like Green was always looking for what would be perceived as the "best/most prestigious" offer he could get. When that finally came from UK over the summer we were in trouble with him, but just didn't realize it. Maybe we didn't recognize it because Green still thought Kentucky's offer was to play behind one of the more highly recruiting PGs that they will still after?

This looks to me more like the staff got caught with their pants down, then UK showed up at the last minute and lured a firm commitment away with money. I think they finally told a kid who wanted to be the top option at UK what he was waiting to hear... that the other PG prospects were headed in different directions - now making Quade UK's Plan A.

And as far as Seth Greenberg goes, until someone can find videotape of what he said, I don't believe he said it or, alternatively, when you actually hear his words the interpretation of what he said given his words here on this board will turn out to be a strained one at best.

While I see your points (and Francis'), I feel that with the number of unexpected visits that he made, gave the illusion that he was loyal to Syracuse and kind impeded the recruiting of any pg that could possibly been recruited. If he did not want to go to Syracuse, he should not have shown up that much and lead the coaching staff to believe that he was favoring them. That said, putting all their eggs in one basket was definitely. Big mistake on the coaching staff's part.

 

[phil77]

I agree with Francis cats been on campus near or over double digit times since his recruitment started. If you haven't been able to close him or get a public commit by visit 5 then you shouldn't be shutting out other options period. Recruiting game you always need to hedge your bets recruits do it, schools do it, but in this case Syracuse failed to do it.

Whoever made that call needs to have a reality check. Also Hop or JB need to reassess who the lead recruiter is on some of these high priority recruits.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Here's my response to your intelligent, well laid out post: Francis is a tremendous source of information for the board, and he brings a true insider perspective. But I'd caution that Francis's take about Green doesn't necessarily convey 100% of the relevant facts. It sounds like Green DID in fact commit to us, and affirmed that commitment earlier in the week [people are free to believe or not believe that, but based upon who that info comes from, I believe it] prior to backing out.

And as far as Seth Greenberg goes, you don't want to believe it happened--that's fine. It was said on national television, and someone will eventually be able to find a link. And it isn't my interpretation at all--several posters have commented on it, who saw it live.

It seems though that Green's 'commit' to us was an "illusion" as 50YRsofCuse mentions and to be more frank, probably just a lie. We forget these kids are 17-18 yrs old. Some would just want to masquerade through this recruitment, paint a rosy picture, rather than have some backbone and be straight with the coaches as I believe this is what Green did. I ultimately think it was Green waiting for that 'prestigious' UK offer and loving the attention from SU and this media hype HE created. He didn't know how to responsibly handle and tell the coaches like man that he wasn't coming since he got himself in too deep being that he's just a kid. I think it is more this and less that UK just 'swooped' in last minute.

 

[RF2044]

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that this kid was looking for a payout yet have a longstanding expectation that he's coming here. If money was the driver and SU wasn't willing to pay, then why recruit the kid in the first place? Given how much time SU put in with this kid, they'd probably know that better than anyone. I don't remember the exact wording and if you'd like to dig it up, great, but the poster said a couple of times something like Quade and kids like him get a bag. It's hard to imagine that SU is the only program unaware of this condition.

What the poster actually said was that Green got paid--that he made a "business decision" [verbatim] that was best for his mom's financial situation, short term.

We don't know whether SU offered a bag, whether our "bag" was insufficient compared to UK's, or whether no bag was offered by SU. All that we know is that he ended up at UK, and that a poster with first hand knowledge close to Green acknowledged that he got his bag. I.E, UK paid him.

Just because the poster speculated that Green was going to get a bag doesn't mean that SU offered one.

 

[RF2044]

I agree with Francis cats been on campus near or over double digit times since his recruitment started. If you haven't been able to close him or get a public commit by visit 5 then you shouldn't be shutting out other options period. Recruiting game you always need to hedge your bets recruits do it, schools do it, but in this case Syracuse failed to do it.

Whoever made that call needs to have a reality check. Also Hop or JB need to reassess who the lead recruiter is on some of these high priority recruits.

Nobody disagrees with that. But that has nothing to do with the fact that Green formally committed to the coaches on Monday, then called them on Tuesday to indicate that he'd changed his mind.

Francis was dead on that this should have been resolved much earlier, that they should have pushed for a public commitment at the end of the summer / early September, or that the staff should have gotten signed paper when he was on campus for the Colgate game, etc. which would have prevented any of this messiness from ever happening. They botched it. But what Francis didn't discuss is the information that has since come to light about Green's actions last week. It is one thing to give vague, wishy-washy allusions about wanting to commit and quite another to tell the coaches that it is resolved, and you're coming.

People are free to believe that or not, but given the source--I fully believe it. And it reinforces how dirty the kid did us. Which is his right--recruiting is an ugly business, and it ain't over until it's over. Alec Baldwin would NOT be proud of our coaching staff for failing to adhere to his cardinal rule, A-B-C.

 

[phil77]

Nobody disagrees with that. But that has nothing to do with the fact that Green committed to the coaches on Monday, then called them on Tuesday to indicate that he'd changed his mind.

Francis was dead on that this should have been resolved much earlier, that they should have pushed for a public commitment at the end of the summer / early September, or that the staff should have gotten signed paper when he was on campus for the Colgate game, etc. which would have prevented any of this messiness from ever happening. They botched it. But what Francis didn't discuss is the information that has since come to light about Green's actions last week. It is one thing to give vague, wishy-washy allusions about wanting to commit and quite another to tell the coaches that it is resolved, and you're coming.

People are free to believe that or not, but given the source--I fully believe it. And it reinforces how dirty the kid did us. Which is his right--recruiting is an ugly business, and it ain't over until it's over. Alec Baldwin would NOT be proud of our coaching staff for failing to adhere to his cardinal rule, A-B-C.

He ain't committed without a signature. Who cares what happened and how. The recruitment is never over until the paper is signed period. The kid did us dirty only because we left no fall back option which is the staffs fault. Even a public commitment isn't a 100% commitment without a signed paper. And even if he gave the staff reassurance last week that didn't change the fact that we are in this situation because the staff not because Pay Pal, WWW or whoever else you want to point the finger at. We are here without a quality PG coming in because the staff got too comfortable and didn't either finish the recruitment of Green or hedge there bet and recruit other players.

You can say the same thing with Battle that he did Michigan dirty. Committed to them publicly. Then changed his mind and came to Cuse.

 

[two3zone]

You don't think Quade and Howard would have played together?

I'm sure they would, but say Howard is averaging 10 points 7 assists this year in 22 minutes, how do you tell the guy and risk any sort of future pro aspirations that he isn't the exclusive point guard going forward?

Even if Howard split time with Green at the point, Green isn't going to have the ball in his hands 20+ minutes a game as our point guard.

This doesn't include that we have major roster concerns about next season.

Again I know you think UK is great, but why were they bad before Calipari showed up? It's not like every coach wins there.[/QUOTE]

Listen, I really don't give a crap about UK, I'll watch their games if I have money on them or if they're playing against another top ranked team but outside of that I really don't care and don't think they're "great". I see it how it is, they're way ahead of the curve when it comes to certain things as a basketball program.

I love our program and want nothing but the best for it and from it. I don't think I'm off base with anything I'm saying.

 

[RF2044]

He ain't committed without a signature. Who cares what happened and how. The recruitment is never over until the paper is signed period. The kid did us dirty only because we left no fall back option which is the staffs fault. Even a public commitment isn't a 100% commitment without a signed paper. And even if he gave the staff reassurance last week that didn't change the fact that we are in this situation because the staff not because Pay Pal, WWW or whoever else you want to point the finger at. We are here without a quality PG coming in because the staff got too comfortable and didn't either finish the recruitment of Green or hedge there bet and recruit other players.

You can say the same thing with Battle that he did Michigan dirty. Committed to them publicly. Then changed his mind and came to Cuse.

No, he ain't SIGNED without a signature. Commits happen all of the time, throughout the year.

And again, nobody disputes that this was botched. Is anybody disputing that at this point?

Battle absolutely did Michigan dirty. So what? Doesn't change what happened here. Unless turnabout being fair play is your point.