My Take

NineOneSeven

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Think it’s much more than that since someone wearing no. 3 played 11 minutes in the first half when we gave up 46 points, but that’s just me.
“Could be”.

What do you think it is then? Spacing?
 

Alsacs

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Think it’s much more than that since someone wearing no. 3 played 11 minutes in the first half when we gave up 46 points, but that’s just me.
We as a team were -14 in the first half.
Kadary was only -6 on the court in the first half.
Which means the team worse without him in the first half.
Kadary was +23 in the second half.

He had the best plus/minus on the team this game.
 

rrlbees

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We as a team were -14 in the first half.
Kadary was only -6 on the court in the first half.
Which means the team worse without him in the first half.
Kadary was +23 in the second half.

He had the best plus/minus on the team this game.

actually he was -10 and +25.
 

djcon57

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We as a team were -14 in the first half.
Kadary was only -6 on the court in the first half.
Which means the team worse without him in the first half.
Kadary was +23 in the second half.

He had the best plus/minus on the team this game.

meh just a coincidence.

like the whole year, btw. he has best box plus minus on the team...it’s all just happenstance though.
 

Consigliere

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“Could be”.

What do you think it is then? Spacing?
I think the adjustments are a combination of tweaking rotations, focal points and personnel. I suspect we put together a defensive game plan centered on finding Laszewski and Hubb much more so than Wertz. Notre Dame was attacking by swinging the ball on the perimeter and hitting the open three from the corner or reversing and finding the angle to go inside to Durham. The reversal often caught Griffin over rotated and unable to get back. We adjusted in the second half by not pursuing as much laterally and when Griff was caught out of position again made the move to Braswell. We also shaded more toward Wertz and left him without the open looks.
I don’t want to be over critical of Griff. The zone rotations for forwards are challenging to grasp even when you’ve had a full complement of practices and he is 200% better than he was a month ago but he’s still learning. That’s why JB is reluctant to play him at the top of the zone for now. If he is back next year I think that may be more of a possibility.
 

Alsacs

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actually he was -10 and +25.
I went with sports reference play by play but I will go with what you said.
If he was -10 that is still better than 4 points than the entire team.
And he ended the game 40–12 so +28 makes sense.


Also Joe has a role on this team. I don’t want him just sitting.
15-25 MPG is a perfect role for him.

It doesn’t change Kadary is the best PG and the straw that stirs the drink for the team.
 

rrlbees

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meh just a coincidence.

like the whole year, btw. he has best box plus minus on the team...it’s all just happenstance though.

ive never been a fan of +/- in any sport as it’s too dependent on other players. It’s easy and convenient to calculate but doesn’t tell the whole story. The experts and professional teams don’t use it and Danny Ainge even said it’s useless for basketball. What they do use is various forms of adjusted +/- which is too hard for us average fans to do because it takes into account the players you’re on the court with, both your teammates and the opponents. The formulas they use look like a calculus problem. Doesn’t mean K wouldn’t have the best numbers using those formulas, just that the raw simplistic +/- isn’t a tell all.
 

CardiacCuse

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he was one of the differences. But as to buddy, i didn’t see him get hot because of K. K’s 1 assist was to Q. Buddy got a couple of his 3’s on his own and marek assisted on 2-3 and I remember Q kicking it out to him for 1. K played great and obviously along with buddy, marek, Q and Bobby was one of the reasons for the comeback.
inside out assists from the forwards is where its at for 3 point shooting
 

djcon57

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ive never been a fan of +/- in any sport as it’s too dependent on other players. It’s easy and convenient to calculate but doesn’t tell the whole story. The experts and professional teams don’t use it and Danny Ainge even said it’s useless for basketball. What they do use is various forms of adjusted +/- which is too hard for us average fans to do because it takes into account the players you’re on the court with, both your teammates and the opponents. The formulas they use look like a calculus problem. Doesn’t mean K wouldn’t have the best numbers using those formulas, just that the raw simplistic +/- isn’t a tell all.

i specifically said box +/- in my post

Kadary has the best box plus minus on the team
listed as BPM under advanced



 

SWC75

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ive never been a fan of +/- in any sport as it’s too dependent on other players. It’s easy and convenient to calculate but doesn’t tell the whole story. The experts and professional teams don’t use it and Danny Ainge even said it’s useless for basketball. What they do use is various forms of adjusted +/- which is too hard for us average fans to do because it takes into account the players you’re on the court with, both your teammates and the opponents. The formulas they use look like a calculus problem. Doesn’t mean K wouldn’t have the best numbers using those formulas, just that the raw simplistic +/- isn’t a tell all.


What would be the +/- of this board when Cuserunner is on it?
 

rrlbees

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i specifically said box +/- in my post

Kadary has the best box plus minus on the team
listed as BPM under advanced




i missed the word box because the whole convo here and other times has been +/-. Never seen anyone use that either.
 

Alsacs

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i missed the word box because the whole convo here and other times has been +/-. Never seen anyone use that either.
Box plus minus has been discussed on the basketball board over the last few weeks.

It was brought up to JB during his coaches show last week.
 

djcon57

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FrancoPizza

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One of the things that has really struck me about this year's team is the ability to adjust defensively at the half and completely flip the script in the final 20 minutes. Not sure if this is a function of exceptional coaching
Or maybe it’s a function of the zone being so bad that any kind of change up can be a shock to the opponent, especially mediocre teams like ND.
 

rrlbees

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Consigliere

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Or maybe it’s a function of the zone being so bad that any kind of change up can be a shock to the opponent, especially mediocre teams like ND.
No, I don’t think so.
 

Newhouser

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Our struggle in the beginning was our D and that was more on Griff and Q who are both awful. The occasional block or steal doesn't change the fact that they may be the worst combo wing defenders we've ever had.
 

STEVEHOLT

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Or maybe it’s a function of the zone being so bad that any kind of change up can be a shock to the opponent, especially mediocre teams like ND.

Notre Dame is almost always good against our zone... they have a combo of smart players with limited athletic ability .. but usually have good size and good shooters
 

Capt. Tuttle

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ive never been a fan of +/- in any sport as it’s too dependent on other players. It’s easy and convenient to calculate but doesn’t tell the whole story. The experts and professional teams don’t use it and Danny Ainge even said it’s useless for basketball. What they do use is various forms of adjusted +/- which is too hard for us average fans to do because it takes into account the players you’re on the court with, both your teammates and the opponents. The formulas they use look like a calculus problem. Doesn’t mean K wouldn’t have the best numbers using those formulas, just that the raw simplistic +/- isn’t a tell all.
Yes. If Buddy doesn’t go off, the plus minus changes. Same with Marek’s big half. Q becoming a rebound machine helps the plus minus. ND not taking FT helps the +|-

I haven’t watched a lot this year. K is certainly a plus player, and at times, Joe has looked like a shell of himself, and his confidence seems gone. I saw that he is asthmatic. I am wondering if he has just been wiped by the virus.

Buddy is finally rounding into form. Not sure if it’s was the virus, stoppages in play/practice. Just a weird year, especially for our shooters. If just one had struggled, I would think it was just that type of year, but both have really struggled, both were sick.

We would have been an interesting team with Sid in the middle.
 

Scott11

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First, you have to feel good for Buddy. He takes so much criticism but nobody wants to win more than him. The thing is today was totally predictable in that when Buddy gets open shots off the pass he will make them. That is what he is elite at. And he was not afraid of the moment at all. Have to feel good for the Boeheim family all around.
But Buddy wasn’t the only member of his family to have a great day. If we kill JB for sticking with the same lineup too long we have to give him credit for sitting AG and JG3 in the second half. In the first half Notre Dame was getting easy interior shots and dunks. In the second half that stopped. Adjustments were made. I can’t be sure what exactly happened but I have a strong suspicion Braswell was a big part of that. He only made one shot but he was active defensively and helpful on the boards. I’ve been pounding this drum all year but I firmly believe this kid needs to get 10 minutes a game and continue his development as a four-year contributor.
Also Marek has been getting his share of deserved criticism lately but he was outstanding today and a big part of that was he finally was looking for his offense. Also long time Syracuse fans will greatly appreciate a guy going to the line and nailing every clutch free-throw.
My biggest concern today was Quincy. Yes he played with heart on the boards in the second half. But today also continued a disturbing trend where he missed a number of makeable shots and seemed to exhibit a decreasing lift reminiscent of last season. He just doesn’t look like the same guy who was putting up huge numbers in the ACC earlier in the conference season. I thought it was fascinating how dismissive Mike Waters was on Twitter of Quincy going to the NBA next season but he is seeing what we are seeing.
Finally Kadary was obviously a huge factor but not necessarily in the ways he usually is. One thing Kadary does well is keep his dribble When there is no good alternative. That doesn’t show up in the box score but it is very valuable because he doesn’t pick the ball up and put himself in a compromised position where he has to force a pass and that usually leads to a turnover. This is something he does considerably better than JG3 who the longer he dribbles the more likely is to turn over the ball. By the way Joe did play well for the most part yesterday and does not deserve some of the scorn I have seen on this board.
Looking forward to Duke.
 

billsin01

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Yes. If Buddy doesn’t go off, the plus minus changes. Same with Marek’s big half. Q becoming a rebound machine helps the plus minus. ND not taking FT helps the +|-

I haven’t watched a lot this year. K is certainly a plus player, and at times, Joe has looked like a shell of himself, and his confidence seems gone. I saw that he is asthmatic. I am wondering if he has just been wiped by the virus.

Buddy is finally rounding into form. Not sure if it’s was the virus, stoppages in play/practice. Just a weird year, especially for our shooters. If just one had struggled, I would think it was just that type of year, but both have really struggled, both were sick.

We would have been an interesting team with Sid in the middle.
Yeah, it's amazing that every thread becomes Joe vs. Kadary. Kadary had a great game, didn't think Joe was individually the reason for the disastrous first half but clearly Kadary was a HUGE factor in the comeback. Where that leaves us going forward I guess we'll see.

A few other (non-Kadary) observations instead of starting a new thread:

On both sides of the ball it's amazing how much better shooters shoot with their feet set. Buddy has a tendency -- I think due to not having the quickest feet -- to not have his feet set and his base underneath him when he shoots. He always moves well without the ball but we don't always do little things to get him an extra beat and he doesn't always get his base underneath him when he's in a hurry. Against ND, he was set and had clean looks a lot and he was absolutely brilliant. Some of this had to do with Buddy's technique and some with guys getting him looks (Marek, not shockingly, had a couple really pretty quick looks and Buddy was ready to shoot).

On the other side we did a better job of taking away the three, obviously, in the second half. ND had a bunch of possessions in the first half where they passed the ball around a bit but essentially just caught and shot clean. Wertz, for example, was red hot most of the night, but the one time I remember us running him off his spot, he pump faked and then tried to shoot a three and it clanged off the backboard. Some teams will move the ball well and create open looks -- they do it against man defenses as well. But we can't just allow them to swing the ball around and shoot open, stand-still threes all night (obviously, i guess).

Really a bummer (obviously) we didn't have Sid this year. We're now 11-0 when being even or winning the rebounding battle. We wouldn't be undefeated with Sid, but if he makes a difference in a couple games, this team might really have something. Nothing more to be said, but just sucks.

Q contributed in a big way and I love the kid, but he's been struggling a bit. In his last six games, Q is averaging 11 ppg on 38% from the floor, 70% from the line, 22% from three. The first 13 games he was at 17 ppg/57%/35% from 3/75% from the line. What's more, he was getting to the line 5x a game. he's down to around 3 the past six games. He's still huge for us. Love the kid, but hope he is just in a bit of a slump and breaks out -- against Duke would be a nice time for that. One thing I don't love is when he makes that move baseline then stops and pumps and tries to figure it out. Just go up strong with that thing!

Bras played well. Would love to see a bit of woody but nice to see bras contributing. Nothing spectacular, but plays with good energy and he's a decent threat to knock down a shot.

Griffin's weird year continues. Some games he's the best player on the floor. Didn't think he was absolutely awful per se, but shot selection was not awesome and his defense wasn't great either in the first half. Wonder if there are some maturity concerns here. Not saying he's a bad kid, but he's had a few games where he's getting into it with some player or another and some games where he just hasn't been mentally checked in to the proceedings. Not trying to insinuate I know anything, just unusual to see a guy who's clearly very talented play exceptionally hard sometimes and then appear to be checked out for long stretches at others. Hope he rebounds big against Duke. And, by the way, he always seems engaged on the bench so perhaps I'm way off.
 

SWC75

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After looking at how box plus minus works I’m fairly certain I am as lost as last years Easter egg.


Good sports statistics are easy to compute and their meaning is obvious. we aren't trying to land a man on the moon, just to understand what happened in a game. Stats should be geared to the average fan.
 

upperdeck

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I think Q needs to stop going away from contact around the basket.. do a bit more with the fakes.. Faking is great but if you dont do anything with it you just end up throwing off balance shots why bother.. A bit quicker smaller on the fakes and go into the contact and try to draw more fouls. Needs to really figure out how to use the backboard a bit more since he cant elevate over most of the bigs and ends up throwing it hard too often.
 

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