My Take

[NKR1978]

Its almost like people forget about Miami last year where our defense may have dug us a hole but then had to hold the line and get a few stops for us to get back into the game.

Has the defense been rough at times? Yes but it always seems to have more good than bad.

We are not an elite defense yet...

And doesn't the Miami game (and Virginia Tech) show that the staff is able to make adjustments?

 

[Doc5120]

Nothing to understand, where is the proof? Do you have insider information?

Clemson got $5M, with an incentive for more tickets sold last year. Clemson sold out its 25k tickets. Do you think we did? How many tickets do you think we sold? With attendance at less than 50k, nearly impossible. Would we have even guaranteed 10k tickets sold? If so, why would they pay $5M to us?

https://www.islandpacket.com/sports/college/acc/article291650445.html.

I cannot find anything suggesting travel expenses are paid. I am sure they work out something for hotels and in-city travel. But I am questioning whether they pay for airfare, etc. And if they did, for how many people? Just players and staff? Did the school have to pay for family of staff? And so on.

And then you have the fact that some people might travel to Atlanta at the expense of traveling to Syracuse later in the year for a home game. And then the broader community cost of not having a home game to generate hotel/restaurant revenue. I am sure that it nets an advantage at the end of the day or we would not have done it. But is it such a clear revenue boost that it outweighs every other consideration?

If you don't believe it was about a big payday (which it most certainly was) and exposure on a major TV network, then why do you think we would agree to go down there to play a big name opponent in a virtual away game? If $$ wasn't the benefit, what was?

 

[sufandu]

I know the Tennessee game was scheduled around 5 years ago, but having said that my take is that it is absolutely ridiculous to schedule the first game of the year against an SEC team. We are not there yet. Better off scheduling a very winnable game, see where your weaknesses are, and adapt for week two.

At some point when scheduling out, you have to assume you're going to be good. It's been a while since we scheduled an opening game like this. It was fine. Sometimes you're gonna take your lumps.

 

[Cuse On 3]

I know the Tennessee game was scheduled around 5 years ago, but having said that my take is that it is absolutely ridiculous to schedule the first game of the year against an SEC team. We are not there yet. Better off scheduling a very winnable game, see where your weaknesses are, and adapt for week two.

Not sure why this doesn’t have 100 likes. Well said. Although losing to a team like Tennessee will absolutely benefit us this year later on… watch

 

[Archbold44]

If you don't believe it was about a big payday (which it most certainly was) and exposure on a major TV network, then why do you think we would agree to go down there to play a big name opponent in a virtual away game? If $$ wasn't the benefit, what was?

I am sure it was a $$$ benefit of some kind. I would like to think we are not THAT incompetent. I am just questioning whether it was worth it when considering everything. If we end up 5-7... I hope we made a LOT of money and not just "more than we would have with a 7th home game."

 

[Cuseregular]

On a rewatch now..

If the ref doesn't call illegal shift on our 1st drive, we score on that drive. And it was also a gut punch of a call.

& if Angeli D doesn't fumble for a scoop & score, the play after we revover their fumble, the 1st quarter ends at 3-10 or 7-10, not 0-17.

2 gut punches in the 1st quarter.

Amen brother. People who haven’t been there sometimes underestimate The gut punch catastrophic nature of a call like that. Which sets the tone there after in a not good way.

As soon as I saw it called, I turned it off and went outside, knowing they’d have to beat the refs as well to win with that bad call, as usual, which makes success an impossibility.

Just saw the highlights but simply did not want to suffer through it to the end result. Not sure if it continued or not but that set the tone.

Seeing the outcome and big picture, I’m actually encouraged that it wasn’t a beat down with a lot of positives to take out of it, positives that they can hopefully latch onto to work towards a successful season

This weekend won’t be easy has any time a team score 60 points and is coming in high versus us coming in low anything can happen.

 

[sufandu]

Correct, it actually would have cost more to host East Tennessee or whatever else this poster is talking about.


I think people forget the costs of just OPENING the Dome. That does not account for all of the personnel etc to run the dome. Oh yeah and the few million we would have had to throw to East whatever to show up.

We got all of our travel expenses covered plus an appearance fee paid to us.

We also got a nationally broadcast game on tv noon which drew way more eyeballs than ACCNX.


Sometimes I just do not understand posters on here...

And I hate this run and hide attitude some people have. We didn't play Ohio St or Texas. Tennessee was ranked 24th. Maybe they'll end up being better than that, but I don't want to avoid all OOC games against a top 25 team. I was certainly more intrigued by this game than Ohio last year. Gotta man up at some point.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

And I hate this run and hide attitude some people have. We didn't play Ohio St or Texas. Tennessee was ranked 24th. Maybe they'll end up being better than that, but I don't want to avoid all OOC games against a top 25 team. I was certainly more intrigued by this game than Ohio last year. Gotta man up at some point.

I would have loved this game last year. Take out UNLV and add this game, that is great. But when you already have Notre Dame it is overkill. On top of that the ACC did us no favors with that conference schedule.

 

[swish7]

Amen brother. People who haven’t been there sometimes underestimate The gut punch catastrophic nature of a call like that. Which sets the tone there after in a not good way.

As soon as I saw it called, I turned it off and went outside, knowing they’d have to beat the refs as well to win with that bad call, as usual, which makes success an impossibility.

Just saw the highlights but simply did not want to suffer through it to the end result. Not sure if it continued or not but that set the tone.

Seeing the outcome and big picture, I’m actually encouraged that it wasn’t a beat down with a lot of positives to take out of it, positives that they can hopefully latch onto to work towards a successful season

This weekend won’t be easy has any time a team score 60 points and is coming in high versus us coming in low anything can happen.

I had similar feelings. A well timed bad call in football is no different than the same in basketball.

When Angeli double downed with an unnecessary TO, scoop to score, I got an ill feeling.

Completely reversed any momentum we hoped to gain.

 

[Chip]

Nothing to understand, where is the proof? Do you have insider information?

Clemson got $5M, with an incentive for more tickets sold last year. Clemson sold out its 25k tickets. Do you think we did? How many tickets do you think we sold? With attendance at less than 50k, nearly impossible. Would we have even guaranteed 10k tickets sold? If so, why would they pay $5M to us?

https://www.islandpacket.com/sports/college/acc/article291650445.html.

I cannot find anything suggesting travel expenses are paid. I am sure they work out something for hotels and in-city travel. But I am questioning whether they pay for airfare, etc. And if they did, for how many people? Just players and staff? Did the school have to pay for family of staff? And so on.

And then you have the fact that some people might travel to Atlanta at the expense of traveling to Syracuse later in the year for a home game. And then the broader community cost of not having a home game to generate hotel/restaurant revenue. I am sure that it nets an advantage at the end of the day or we would not have done it. But is it such a clear revenue boost that it outweighs every other consideration?

I just googled this: do teams playing in the aflac kickoff get their travel expenses paid?

I can't validate the Gemini AI results, but it seems reasonable enough for me.

I'm sure when Wildhack was presented this opportunity, he did weigh it against hosting a MAC in the opener and the decision was probably simple. I know everyone doesn't like him (comes with the job), but I have to assume he's smart enough to know that this was a better deal.

People really really need to get out of the let's just schedule MAC-CUSA teams so we can ensure we get to 6 wins and a bowl game and 15 extra practices mentality. The current state of college football is way beyond that.

 

[sufan59]

And I hate this run and hide attitude some people have. We didn't play Ohio St or Texas. Tennessee was ranked 24th. Maybe they'll end up being better than that, but I don't want to avoid all OOC games against a top 25 team. I was certainly more intrigued by this game than Ohio last year. Gotta man up at some point.

My eye test suggested Tennessee will be top 15, but we’ll see. Even if it was Ohio State or Texas, who cares? I feel more pride for my program taking part in big games. We need to change our mindset on these things. If we approached scheduling with an insecure mindset that is worse in my book than getting up, accepting a challenge, and losing the games.If we are fortunate to be in the super league, our current schedule would more than likely look easier than what those schedules will be. Losing sucks. Making moves to satisfy insecurity and not accepting challenges, sucks even more.

 

[Archbold44]

My eye test suggested Tennessee will be top 15, but we’ll see. Even if it was Ohio State or Texas, who cares? I feel more pride for my program taking part in big games. We need to change our mindset on these things. If we approached scheduling with an insecure mindset that is worse in my book than getting up, accepting a challenge, and losing the games.If we are fortunate to be in the super league, our current schedule would more than likely look easier than what those schedules will be. Losing sucks. Making moves to satisfy insecurity and not accepting challenges, sucks even more.

I agree re: Tennessee. But I also think you need to schedule in competition with your peers. Tennessee is playing 9 P4 games. We are playing 10. Why? As you can see, the ACC can put together a difficult schedule. Why do we want to tie one hand behind our own backs. What if we end up 9-3 in a situation where 10-2 would have gotten us in? I get not being scheduling wimps. But Tennessee and Notre Dame in one year is stupid.

Let's compare schedules:
Tennessee: Syracuse (N), E Tenn State (H), Georgia (H), UAB (H), MIssissippi State (A), Arkansas (H), Alabama (A), Kentucky (A), Oklahoma (H), New Mexico State (H), Florida (A), Vanderbilt (H).

H: ETSU, Georgia, UAB, Arkansas, Oklahoma, NMSU, Vandy
A: Miss. State, Alabama, Kentucky, Florida
"N": Syracuse
7.5 Home Games, 4 Away games. Right now... 4 ranked opponents #4 (GA), #13 (FL), #18 (OK), #21 (AL).

Let's look at Syracuse:

H: UConn, Colgate, Duke, UNC, Pitt, BC
A: Clemson, SMU, George Tech, Miami, ND
N: Tennessee

6 Home Games, 5.5 Away Games. Right now.. 5 ranked opponents. #5 Miami, #8 Clemson, #9 ND, #17 SMU, and #22 Tennessee. Georgia Tech could/should be ranked.

In what world are we smart to be playing a tougher schedule than Tennessee????

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The current state of college football is way beyond that.

The problem IMO is not two P4s, but having an SEC school added when you already have Notre Dame. Not a big deal if that was a middling B12 or B1G program instead.

We really need the P4 to go to a standard 10 P4 games and no FCS.

Teams with <10 P4s:
ACC (5/18*) - Cal, Duke, Louisville, UVA, Wake (8)
Big 12 (2/16) - Houston, Texas Tech
B1G (6/18) - Indiana, Maryland, Penn State, Rutgers, Washington, Northwestern
SEC (13/16) - Arkansas, Auburn, UGA, Kentucky, LSU, Miss State, Mizzou, Oklahoma, Ole Miss (8), Tennessee, A&M, Vandy, Texas

*included Notre Dame

So overall 26 of 68 play less than 10 (although the SEC has half of those).

 

[Chip]

The problem IMO is not two P4s, but having an SEC school added when you already have Notre Dame. Not a big deal if that was a middling B12 or B1G program instead.

We really need the P4 to go to a standard 10 P4 games and no FCS.

Teams with <10 P4s:
ACC (5/18*) - Cal, Duke, Louisville, UVA, Wake (8)
Big 12 (2/16) - Houston, Texas Tech
B1G (6/18) - Indiana, Maryland, Penn State, Rutgers, Washington, Northwestern
SEC (13/16) - Arkansas, Auburn, UGA, Kentucky, LSU, Miss State, Mizzou, Oklahoma, Ole Miss (8), Tennessee, A&M, Vandy, Texas

*included Notre Dame

So overall 26 of 68 play less than 10 (although the SEC has half of those).

I’ll defer to you to math this but I’ve been saying for years that FCS should be a preseason game. So I’m fine with eliminating them from the regular season.

 

[SUskibum]

The problem IMO is not two P4s, but having an SEC school added when you already have Notre Dame. Not a big deal if that was a middling B12 or B1G program instead.

We really need the P4 to go to a standard 10 P4 games and no FCS.

Teams with <10 P4s:
ACC (5/18*) - Cal, Duke, Louisville, UVA, Wake (8)
Big 12 (2/16) - Houston, Texas Tech
B1G (6/18) - Indiana, Maryland, Penn State, Rutgers, Washington, Northwestern
SEC (13/16) - Arkansas, Auburn, UGA, Kentucky, LSU, Miss State, Mizzou, Oklahoma, Ole Miss (8), Tennessee, A&M, Vandy, Texas

*included Notre Dame

So overall 26 of 68 play less than 10 (although the SEC has half of those).

We signed up for UT before the ACC put ND on our schedule. We had no way of knowing we would have ND this year.

Also UT had been bad/medicore for 10+ years at the time we scheduled it, so we thought we were signing up for a middling SEC team

We signed up for the game in June 2020. Here is the win total of the previous 12 years at the time for UT

• 2008: 5–7 (3–5 SEC)
  • A disappointing season under coach Phillip Fulmer, with no bowl appearance.
• 2009: 7–6 (4–4 SEC)
  • Under first-year coach Lane Kiffin, the Vols lost to Virginia Tech in the Chick-fil-A Bowl (December 31, 2009).
• 2010: 6–7 (3–5 SEC)
  • Coached by Derek Dooley, Tennessee lost 30–27 in double overtime to North Carolina in the Music City Bowl (December 30, 2010).
• 2011: 5–7 (2–6 SEC)
  • Another losing season under Dooley, with no bowl appearance.
• 2012: 5–7 (1–7 SEC)
  • Dooley was fired after 11 games; Jim Chaney coached the final game. No bowl appearance.
• 2013: 5–7 (2–6 SEC)
  • Under first-year coach Butch Jones, the Vols missed bowl eligibility.
• 2014: 7–6 (3–5 SEC)
  • Tennessee returned to bowl eligibility, defeating Iowa 45–28 in the TaxSlayer Bowl (January 2, 2015).
• 2015: 9–4 (5–3 SEC)
  • The Vols finished strong, defeating Northwestern 45–6 in the Outback Bowl (January 1, 2016).
• 2016: 9–4 (4–4 SEC)
  • Tennessee won the Music City Bowl, defeating Nebraska 38–24 (December 30, 2016).
• 2017: 4–8 (0–8 SEC)
  • A historically poor season under Butch Jones, who was fired before the LSU game. Brady Hoke coached the final two games. No bowl appearance.
• 2018: 5–7 (2–6 SEC)
  • First-year coach Jeremy Pruitt led the team to upset wins over Auburn and Kentucky but missed bowl eligibility.
• 2019: 8–5 (5–3 SEC) (Note: 11 wins vacated by NCAA)
  • The Vols finished 8–5 on-field, winning the Gator Bowl over Indiana 23–22 (January 2, 2020). However, all 11 wins from 2019–2020 were vacated due to NCAA violations

 

[Cuseregular]

I don’t either. Life doesn’t work in a way that you can wait to be 100% ready to jump in the deep end. Because you don’t really know until you do it. We are in opportunistic mode, take every chance and opportunity we can get to grow our brand. Our brand is losing if we are too scared to play these type of games. This is more than ever a generate as much revenue as you can and reinvest it into the program game. We should have zero regrets and be happy as fans that our program is accepting challenges and aspire to be a LEGIT top college football program. It sucks to lose Saturday against a very good football program, what sucks more is when we aren’t even trying to be a legit program.

Yep and this underscores just how unbelievably important that Miami upset victory was for national perception. We’re not just a team losing the big ones anymore as without that victory that would’ve been the perception as was too often the case.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We signed up for UT before the ACC put ND on our schedule. We had no way of knowing we would have ND this year.

Also UT had been bad/medicore for 10+ years at the time we scheduled it, so we thought we were signing up for a middling SEC team

We signed up for the game in June 2020. Here is the win total of the previous 12 years at the time for UT

• 2008: 5–7 (3–5 SEC)
  • A disappointing season under coach Phillip Fulmer, with no bowl appearance.
• 2009: 7–6 (4–4 SEC)
  • Under first-year coach Lane Kiffin, the Vols lost to Virginia Tech in the Chick-fil-A Bowl (December 31, 2009).
• 2010: 6–7 (3–5 SEC)
  • Coached by Derek Dooley, Tennessee lost 30–27 in double overtime to North Carolina in the Music City Bowl (December 30, 2010).
• 2011: 5–7 (2–6 SEC)
  • Another losing season under Dooley, with no bowl appearance.
• 2012: 5–7 (1–7 SEC)
  • Dooley was fired after 11 games; Jim Chaney coached the final game. No bowl appearance.
• 2013: 5–7 (2–6 SEC)
  • Under first-year coach Butch Jones, the Vols missed bowl eligibility.
• 2014: 7–6 (3–5 SEC)
  • Tennessee returned to bowl eligibility, defeating Iowa 45–28 in the TaxSlayer Bowl (January 2, 2015).
• 2015: 9–4 (5–3 SEC)
  • The Vols finished strong, defeating Northwestern 45–6 in the Outback Bowl (January 1, 2016).
• 2016: 9–4 (4–4 SEC)
  • Tennessee won the Music City Bowl, defeating Nebraska 38–24 (December 30, 2016).
• 2017: 4–8 (0–8 SEC)
  • A historically poor season under Butch Jones, who was fired before the LSU game. Brady Hoke coached the final two games. No bowl appearance.
• 2018: 5–7 (2–6 SEC)
  • First-year coach Jeremy Pruitt led the team to upset wins over Auburn and Kentucky but missed bowl eligibility.
• 2019: 8–5 (5–3 SEC) (Note: 11 wins vacated by NCAA)
  • The Vols finished 8–5 on-field, winning the Gator Bowl over Indiana 23–22 (January 2, 2020). However, all 11 wins from 2019–2020 were vacated due to NCAA violations

Pretty sure ND was already in place.

It could have been Arkansas or Kentucky and it still too much.

Edit

ND was announced in 2014
ND games

 

[Strathless]

I had similar feelings. A well timed bad call in football is no different than the same in basketball.

When Angeli double downed with an unnecessary TO, scoop to score, I got an ill feeling.

Completely reversed any momentum we hoped to gain.

A big story in this game for me was SU’s inability to execute in big moments. The illegal shift call on the first drive was a momentum killer, but Syracuse had several chances to reestablish a foothold that they let slip away:

-Angeli giving up a scoop and score fumble immediately after the defense forced the game’s first TO

-Giving up a 73 yard TD on a two play drive after SU’s first touchdown narrowed the score to 17-7.

-Losing a chance to go into half down 24-14 after getting shredded on a 6 play 75 yard two minute drill.

-Turning it over deep in our own territory on the first drive of the second half.

-Failing to convert on both two point conversion attempts.

-But despite all the above, SU still had the ball down 12 with 10 minutes to play. They promptly went three and out.

The takeaway for me here is that we’ve talked a lot this offseason about how the team has added depth, talent, and measurables, and I think that still holds true. However, there is no immediate remedy to replace the DART mentality that players such as McCord, LQA, Pena, Meeks, Barron, Diggs, Wax, et. al displayed last year. That team consistently made big plays in big moments.

This year’s squad needs those emotional leaders, and I think the season will be made or broken by how well team leaders are able to emulate the mental toughness we saw on display last season. There is a lot to work on after Saturday, but I did see a team that continued to fight after a more prepared opponent punched them right in the mouth and that gives me hope going forward.

 

[swish7]

A big story in this game for me was SU’s inability to execute in big moments. The illegal shift call on the first drive was a momentum killer, but Syracuse had several chances to reestablish a foothold that they let slip away:

-Angeli giving up a scoop and score fumble immediately after the defense forced the game’s first TO

-Giving up a 73 yard TD on a two play drive after SU’s first touchdown narrowed the score to 17-7.

-Losing a chance to go into half down 24-14 after getting shredded on a 6 play 75 yard two minute drill.

-Going 3 and out on the first drive of the second half.

-Failing to convert on both two point conversion attempts.

-But despite all the above, SU still had the ball down 12 with 10 minutes to play. They promptly went three and out.

The takeaway for me here is that we’ve talked a lot this offseason about how the team has added depth, talent, and measurables, and I think that still holds true. However, there is no immediate remedy to replace the DART mentality that players such as McCord, LQA, Pena, Meeks, Barron, Diggs, Wax, et. al displayed last year. That team consistently made big plays in big moments.

This year’s squad needs those emotional leaders, and I think the season will be made or broken by how well team leaders are able to emulate the mental toughness we saw on display last season. There is a lot to work on after Saturday, but I did see a team that continued to fight after a more prepared opponent punched them right in the mouth and that gives me hope going forward.

Good list of the lost opportunities in this game.

 

[tbonezone]

i remember beating Wisky and ron dayne at a neutral site to open 97 then coming back to the dome only to get upset by NC st.

 

[sufandu]

I agree re: Tennessee. But I also think you need to schedule in competition with your peers. Tennessee is playing 9 P4 games. We are playing 10. Why? As you can see, the ACC can put together a difficult schedule. Why do we want to tie one hand behind our own backs. What if we end up 9-3 in a situation where 10-2 would have gotten us in? I get not being scheduling wimps. But Tennessee and Notre Dame in one year is stupid.

Let's compare schedules:
Tennessee: Syracuse (N), E Tenn State (H), Georgia (H), UAB (H), MIssissippi State (A), Arkansas (H), Alabama (A), Kentucky (A), Oklahoma (H), New Mexico State (H), Florida (A), Vanderbilt (H).

H: ETSU, Georgia, UAB, Arkansas, Oklahoma, NMSU, Vandy
A: Miss. State, Alabama, Kentucky, Florida
"N": Syracuse
7.5 Home Games, 4 Away games. Right now... 4 ranked opponents #4 (GA), #13 (FL), #18 (OK), #21 (AL).

Let's look at Syracuse:

H: UConn, Colgate, Duke, UNC, Pitt, BC
A: Clemson, SMU, George Tech, Miami, ND
N: Tennessee

6 Home Games, 5.5 Away Games. Right now.. 5 ranked opponents. #5 Miami, #8 Clemson, #9 ND, #17 SMU, and #22 Tennessee. Georgia Tech could/should be ranked.

In what world are we smart to be playing a tougher schedule than Tennessee????

How often does our schedule look like this? Not often. This season is an anomaly that couldn't be foreseen when we agreed to the TN game. We weren't using this scheduling format in the conference and SMU wasn't even in the league yet.

 

[Doc5120]

I am sure it was a $$$ benefit of some kind. I would like to think we are not THAT incompetent. I am just questioning whether it was worth it when considering everything. If we end up 5-7... I hope we made a LOT of money and not just "more than we would have with a 7th home game."

The games are scheduled well in advance so its hard to determine how good (or bad) we will be, as well as how good or bad our opponent will be. But I don't think we're in a position to pass up that opportunity. Honestly, I don't think many (if any) teams would miss out if offered.

 

[hoopsupstate]

The games are scheduled well in advance so its hard to determine how good (or bad) we will be, as well as how good or bad our opponent will be. But I don't think we're in a position to pass up that opportunity. Honestly, I don't think many (if any) teams would miss out if offered.

I’m sure Penn State will stink in two years!

 

[Bayside44]

I had similar feelings. A well timed bad call in football is no different than the same in basketball.

When Angeli double downed with an unnecessary TO, scoop to score, I got an ill feeling.

Completely reversed any momentum we hoped to gain.

They're so much more punitive in football - like this one. Basketball you still usually get the ball back in 25 seconds.