My two cents, having now seen the team

[SoBristol]

I’ve wondered that also. I think Boeheim in an interview in the offseason (maybe in Albany or the immediate botched post-Hopkins presser with Wildhack) said that he regretfully made that comment but that through practices early on before some real games started he knew quickly that his comment would be void. Something like that. Not positive but pretty sure.

Sounds right. Many here saw the flaws in those early games, and JB saw it in spades. I suspect the bullishness centered on White (elite shooter), Lydon (prospective 1st rounder), and Battle (elite recruit), then possibly Gillon (quickness). But, wait, how do the pieces fit together ...

Then, I wonder if this season the reverse happens. We look at the pieces and see all the issues and how raw these players are. But Sidibe is only a center, OB is a classic wing, there are some ingredients for a press, and the pieces start to fit. Maybe?

 

[billsin01]

I am puzzled about last year's bullish projections -- did the players actually look that good in practice in the line-up and roles that we tried early in the season? Were Chukwu's limitations not apparent? Did Lydon show SF moves in practice, or guard the wing well? Was it not clear that White was merely adequate on defense, and rather slow if playing the top of the zone? Did Howard not commit turnovers in practice, or pick up his dribble 30 ft out? Did Thompson defend well in practices?

There were a lot of strange occurences last year. White playing the 2 was never going to work defensively, which was obvious from day 1. That's strange b/c once he played full time at the three he improved considerably defensively and I'd argue was solid vs. merely adequate. Why did Lydon add the weight in what looked like sloppy fashion? What was the idea of his role and why didn't he find a role the whole season?

I actually think JB ultimately did a decent job with a limited roster, but it was definitely not his finest hour.

 

[billsin01]

Sounds right. Many here saw the flaws in those early games, and JB saw it in spades. I suspect the bullishness centered on White (elite shooter), Lydon (prospective 1st rounder), and Battle (elite recruit), then possibly Gillon (quickness). But, wait, how do the pieces fit together ...

Then, I wonder if this season the reverse happens. We look at the pieces and see all the issues and how raw these players are. But Sidibe is only a center, OB is a classic wing, there are some ingredients for a press, and the pieces start to fit. Maybe?

I think the lack of well-fitting pieces to the puzzle was a big issue last year and this team does fit together better. Preseason games don't mean that much but, man, I find it hard to get a good vibe about this group.

 

[billsin01]

Over the past few years, we have lost out on recruiting targets that have actively mentioned on twitter or in interviews that they don't want to play zone. That is a fact. Off the top of my head I know both Nick Richards and Jahvon Quinerly publicly stated that they didn't want to play zone as a primary defense.

I also know from talking to a member of the SU coaching staff that an early vetting point in determining how hard they are going to go after a kid is to get a feel for whether the kid is OK with playing zone. After the Harris/Flynn situation where neither wanted to play zone as the primary defense, the staff needs to know that the kids they bring in are committed to the SU system. It's not a good locker room if there is active dissent with respect to the system JB implements.

So YES, we recruit for the zone and YES there are kids out there that don't want to play it.

I'm not arguing against either of the main points in this post but I think the staff needs to start changing the narrative on this thing for three reasons:

-- I defy anyone to watch an NBA game and tell me that the main component of a good defense is the one-on-one isolated matchups. It's literally like 15% of what teams do. It's a constant series of switches and the best defensive teams excel at scrambling and secondary/tertiary slides. Those are all principals of the zone and, well, any defense a team plays. Yes, the best defenders give teams problems in individual matchups and the defense is still obviously m2m, but I honestly find it absurd to suggest that playing man defense at Duke truly prepares a guy for defense in the nba.

-- For a kid who's talented enough to go to the NBA, defense is effort. There are a million examples of this, college and pro. The one that pops into my head is kyrie irving. Terrible defender, then played really solid defense against an incredibly dangerous team in the 15-16 finals. Then he struggled again defensively all of last year, including the finals. Now he's in boston and he's been really solid defensively. Same player, a stretch of just over two seasons and he's been considered a good defender twice and a bad defender twice. I mean, you can only draw one conclusion.

-- For the vast majority of real NBA prospects they're in college for a max of two years. Are we to believe those two years of zone -- played against the toughest conference in college basketball and routinely the most nba talent of any conference in america -- is going to undo whatever m2m skills they acquired in grade school/high school/aau? That's completely illogical.

I don't know, I just think we have to stop letting others dictate this conversation and point to draft record and the style of defense played in the NBA and making the case that not only is the zone not a bad defense, it's something that could pay dividends at the next level.

 

[SoBristol]

I think the lack of well-fitting pieces to the puzzle was a big issue last year and this team does fit together better. Preseason games don't mean that much but, man, I find it hard to get a good vibe about this group.

Cornell has a trio of 6ft 8in forwards, and some veteran guards, including a leading scorer in the Ivy Leagues -- should be a legitimate test.
So far, any vibe is based on Sidibe and Brissett being as good or better than expected, and the press. The exhibitions were ugly (half court offense), but turned into easy wins. We might have to adjust what we are looking for -- not going to see elegant offense, might see a lot of scrambling to make up for that. Every team has to learn game-by-game and get better -- this team more than most.

 

[JazzNC]

I think this team is going to struggle, especially early on. We're not good enough offensively to get behind 10-15 points and come back. Our press has looked decent in the exhibition games but that's been against two division two schools with no size. Any decent division one school with even fair guard play will likely shred our press especially if we have to rely on it and we overuse it.

The good thing is that it's just the start of the season, and there is room for growth. How much growth and how quickly it can take place remains to be seen. I have low expectations but that way if they do better than I'm happy.