my two cents

[Cusefan95]

Then Wildhack is delusional. The fans only show if we start winning consistently.

Wildhack isn’t delusional - it’s 100% true that if (when?) fans don’t show up, Fran will leave for a better school/situation.

What he said is better understood as Wildhack prepping fans for Fran leaving - fans aren’t going to show up so Fran leaving is the likely outcome. He’s either going to leave because last year was an outlier and we hired Dino 2.0 so he’ll be fired in a few years - or we hired a great coach who will leave for an SEC/Big Ten school where he can compete for national championships. As fans we’re better off accepting that Fran won’t be here in 5-7 years - and hoping that’s because he’s a HC at a power school and not because he flamed out.

 

[bigmike]

Dabo still has not really used the portal and his team looks pretty good.

This is a bridge year to 2026.

Yes, Fran wants to go out and win as much as possible. But if we are being realistic we need this season to fully develop his players.

He put the proof out in 2024 that he could win.

Now he is doing his job recruiting and building this team.

Lets see how this team progresses as the season goes on and our student athletes get more comfortable with playing D1 football on Saturdays.

Wait, what, a measured approach. Thank you.

 

[GoSU96]

Many of us were screaming for portal help, and some were satisfied with the results. I wasn’t - particularly on the defensive side of the ball. I hope Fran isn’t thinking like Dabo when it comes to this. Or maybe he believes HS has to be where his bread is buttered because of our limited NIL support relative to the factory schools.

JFC, he didn’t bring in transfers on defense?

What is your deal?

 

[Archimedes]

Respectfully, If we wanted a minister or counselor, we have the right man. We haven't seen a defensive coordinator as of yet...I want to, I hope we see one soon...

That's fair.

 

[Cusefan95]

As a “would you rather” exercise - would you rather coach at Tennessee, where in 2012 after mostly bad seasons for years they still drew 85,000+ fans per game - or Syracuse where we will struggle to fill 40,000 seats during and following a 10 win season?

I’m hard on the school for a lot, and the end of the Shaw/Jake era did enormous damage to the fanbase - but that’s part of the issue now. Fans are demanding a level of sustained success BEFORE they come back that ensures coaches will leave before they get the program to that level. Enough decent years in a row with no big bump in attendance is going to leave coaches thinking a big bump isn’t ever coming - and moving on to a bigger program is the right decision. Marrone left, Dino wanted to but missed his window - any good coach is going to look at Syracuse as a stepping stone. The weak fan base isn’t the only reason for that - but it’s on the list of reasons.

 

[Archbold44]

As far as Fran, is what it is. I see a Marrone 2011/2012 type of scenario. teams wins 4-5 games this year and the fans sour on him. Fran wins 8-9 next year and looks for greener pastures. That’s the gig, don’t blame him one bit or the fans TBH

Some fans will sour with every loss. But Marrone was too sensitive. St. Doug would be a great compliment if someone else gives it to you. If you give to yourself, you have problems.

BTW, we were like 5-2 in 2011 and then lost out. And that was 5 wins where we had to have a dramatic comeback agaisnt Wake Forest, barely beat Rhode Island, need a very favorable call to not lose to Toledo, lose to Rutgers at home, and then barely beat Tulane. The WVU blowout win was out of nowhere to get to 5-2. To then lose 5 straight games for bowl eligibility was tough. Our last 5 opponents finished 33-30 (i.e. 26-30 in games not involving us). We had one good game in 2011. That was concerning. In 2010, we beat 2 FCS teams en route to 7 regular season wins. In 2012, we were 2-4 and 4-5 before finishing strong to get to a bowl. People were not critical of HCDM in the sense of firing him. Fans appreciated that we were back to being a .500 team after the GRob years. But to think that there can be zero criticism is unfair.

As for Fran, if this team makes a bowl game, the honeymoon continues.

If we can beat UConn and Colgate.. and win 3 ACC home games... we will be fine and he will be fine. Even if we finish 5-7.

But this week is the scariest game though. You can come up with infinite scenarios of winning 3 of 4 ACC home games and pulling one upset to get that 6th win. There is no real path forward to a bowl with a loss this week. September 7 is too early for the season to seem like a lost cause. So if we lose this week, things will get interesting. We would pretty much need to beat Clemson to restore interest.

An old coach once said that a coach loses 10% of the fan base with every loss. I think that this only really applies to What losses only or embarrassing losses (62-0 Va Tech, etc.) and can be overcome by later developments. Last year, whatever we lost with Stanford or the Pitt blowout or the collapse against BC was regained with the Cal win, Miami, and the 10-win season/bowl win. This year... those What losses would be UConn and Colgate... and the worst ACC team we play... trending toward UNC (on national TV). We also need to at least split BC/Pitt. And then we just need one more win somewhere to keep the overwhelming majority of fans placated with this schedule. So UConn was and continues to be the second most important game of the season. IMHO.

 

[tbonezone]

and the end of the Shaw/Jake era did enormous damage to the fanbase -

" WELL EXXXX - CUSE ME " c'mon . "GET A LIFE ! "

 

[GoSU96]

As a “would you rather” exercise - would you rather coach at Tennessee, where in 2012 after mostly bad seasons for years they still drew 85,000+ fans per game - or Syracuse where we will struggle to fill 40,000 seats during and following a 10 win season?

I’m hard on the school for a lot, and the end of the Shaw/Jake era did enormous damage to the fanbase - but that’s part of the issue now. Fans are demanding a level of sustained success BEFORE they come back that ensures coaches will leave before they get the program to that level. Enough decent years in a row with no big bump in attendance is going to leave coaches thinking a big bump isn’t ever coming - and moving on to a bigger program is the right decision. Marrone left, Dino wanted to but missed his window - any good coach is going to look at Syracuse as a stepping stone. The weak fan base isn’t the only reason for that - but it’s on the list of reasons.

The change in demographics, both the local population and the student population over the last three decades has everything to do with attendance, not some stupid comment.

 

[Newhouser]

Personally I am tired of the Wildhack "fans you have to show up" claim. This fan base is pretty good (small but good) for what they deal with on a fairly regular basis.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The change in demographics, both the local population and the student population over the last three decades has everything to do with attendance, not some stupid comment.

agreed, in year 2025 to still point back to the comment made by Buzz as the reason why we can't fill the dome it's kind of crazy, IMO. There have been so many great crowds since then for some great games. Noon games UCONN and Colgate won't move the needle, they just won't. Is what it is at this point

 

[Cusefan95]

The change in demographics, both the local population and the student population over the last three decades has everything to do with attendance, not some stupid comment.

It’s not an either/or situation - it’s both/and. Locals soured on the football program and stopped going. Once it stopped being something you just do in Syracuse, it wasn’t something which could recover as demographics and student body changed.

When I was in school in the 90s, there were lots of companies that would have tailgates at Syracuse football games where alumni customers would attend. Most of those companies stopped buying Syracuse season tickets during the GRob era and never returned. Some of that was due to changes in corporate philosophy around entertainment - most of it was due to lack of interest.

As demographics were changing and the school needed to do everything possible to reach out to fans just to try to maintain - they did the opposite. You can think that wasn’t part of contributing to where the school is now - but it is absolutely part of the whole picture. Saying it’s all due to regional demographics is just an effort to absolve previous administrations of the consequences of their incompetence.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Personally I am tired of the Wildhack "fans you have to show up" claim. This fan base is pretty good (small but good) for what they deal with on a fairly regular basis.

the fanbase is fine. It's Syracuse football, compare attendance to peer schools not SEC types. If Fran thinks he's going to sell out UCONN and Colgate, it ain't happening.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It’s not an either/or situation - it’s both/and. Locals soured on the football program and stopped going. Once it stopped being something you just do in Syracuse, it wasn’t something which could recover as demographics and student body changed.

When I was in school in the 90s, there were lots of companies that would have tailgates at Syracuse football games where alumni customers would attend. Most of those companies stopped buying Syracuse season tickets during the GRob era and never returned. Some of that was due to changes in corporate philosophy around entertainment - most of it was due to lack of interest.

As demographics were changing and the school needed to do everything possible to reach out to fans just to try to maintain - they did the opposite. You can think that wasn’t part of contributing to where the school is now - but it is absolutely part of the whole picture. Saying it’s all due to regional demographics is just an effort to absolve previous administrations of the consequences of their incompetence.

This simply is not true. The product fell off a cliff.

Most of those companies and the people who worked there aren't in Syracuse anymore, that's the issue and what GO is trying to get at. Nothing to do with Buzz's comments

 

[Cusefan95]

agreed, in year 2025 to still point back to the comment made by Buzz as the reason why we can't fill the dome it's kind of crazy, IMO. There have been so many great crowds since then for some great games. Noon games UCONN and Colgate won't move the needle, they just won't. Is what it is at this point

You’re hanging your hat on a very small number of dead cat bounces over the last 20 years, and trying to pretend we’ve had loads of great crowds. We haven’t - we’ve had a few outliers that allow the most optimistic amongst us to maintain hope that things are ok.

The number of posts on this board of fan disappointment at the attendance at a “big game” probably outnumber any attendance positivity 10:1 over the last two decades. It’s rare when it hasn’t happened - there’s a good chance whatever “great crowds” you can point to had a thread on here discussing why so few people came.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You’re hanging your hat on a very small number of dead cat bounces over the last 20 years, and trying to pretend we’ve had loads of great crowds. We haven’t - we’ve had a few outliers that allow the most optimistic amongst us to maintain hope that things are ok.

The number of posts on this board of fan disappointment at the attendance at a “big game” probably outnumber any attendance positivity 10:1 over the last two decades. It’s rare when it hasn’t happened - there’s a good chance whatever “great crowds” you can point to had a thread on here discussing why so few people came.

I am not hanging my hat on anything other than what you have posted really isn't all that accurate.

product fell off a cliff, population declined, jobs went away, many fans have died off. But keep talking about Buzz and the administration! please

Syracuse attendance is very similar to it's peer schools, nothing more nothing less. There isn't a coach that has taken the job in the last 20 years who wasn't a bit delusional when it comes to Syracuse attendance.

 

[tbonezone]

It’s not an either/or situation - it’s both/and. Locals soured on the football program and stopped going. Once it stopped being something you just do in Syracuse, it wasn’t something which could recover as demographics and student body changed.

you got high ticket prices. you got parking . you got gridlock and pretty much locking up half your day to attend what for a long while has been a major disappointment . and today with cable you can watch on TV for a much lower fee. i love attending a dome event. but i do have a price point where it's " either/or. "

 

[Cusefan95]

This simply is not true. The product fell off a cliff.

Most of those companies and the people who worked there aren't in Syracuse anymore, that's the issue and what GO is trying to get at. Nothing to do with Buzz's comments

Which is it - that the product fell off a cliff, or that demographics changed?

You just argued for both, which means at some level you know this is a “both/and” situation and we’re just debating what specific issues fall in that category. I’d argue that schools can often survive bad on field performance for a decade without a huge attendance dip. And schools can survive without an attendance dip when angering the fan base when the team is winning. Teams cannot survive angering the fans and then immediately crashing the program into a tree - the events amplify the impact and ensure the result is longer lasting.

Demographics is a both/and.
Product falling off a cliff is a both/and.
Making stupid comments right before the product fell off a cliff - is also, despite your objections, a both/and as well.

 

[GoSU96]

you got high ticket prices. you got parking . you got gridlock and pretty much locking up half your day to attend what for a long while has been a major disappointment . and today with cable you can watch on TV for a much lower fee. i love attending a dome event. but i do have a price point where it's " either/or. "

High ticket prices? What are you smoking.

Access is a huge problem, I agree with that.

 

[JRHEETER]

you got high ticket prices. you got parking . you got gridlock and pretty much locking up half your day to attend what for a long while has been a major disappointment . and today with cable you can watch on TV for a much lower fee. i love attending a dome event. but i do have a price point where it's " either/or. "

Guess you havent checked resale on tickets recently eh?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Ugh sigh...

Who sat out last year? And what about my 2nd part?

Look, you don't need to make up excuse after excuse. Just say you don't want to go. Or stop with them and buck up and support this squad that's giving so much back to the community.

Dude I go. I’m saying expect 35000 to show up for UConn until we start stringing together consecutive 8+ win seasons. We haven’t done that in almost 30 years.