My Upside Lineup.....

[jr4750]

Lydon played the 5 and he shot 3’s. So I guess the answer is 3 years ago.

Marek played the 5 and hit some threes last year.

 

[721Comstock]

Comparing Carey, who was an excellent outside shooter in HS and EYBL to Stevie, who might be the worst outside shooting guard in Syracuse history, tells me all I need to know about you.

A lot of players who were good outside shooters in HS struggle for a year or two shooting at the college level. It is a big jump up. It usually takes time to adjust.

I don't think Carey is a natural point guard. He is a natural scorer, not a distributor. I am not closing the book on his ability to shoot from the outside. I don't think you should either. I think he is always going to be more effective playing at the 2 than at point guard, though I expect he will get more comfortable at point over time.

I think you are under estimating JBA too. Defense and rebounding are important to JB. Time will tell.

OK, I'll play.

Telling me that a kid was decent at something in HS, so he'll eventually get there at the P5 level, in spite of early evidence to the contrary, tells me all I need to know about you.
Kaleb Joseph says hi!
So does Buss Patterson.

Until he proves he can do the most important part of playing SHOOTING GUARD, then it seems to make sense that JB will play all of the other players at that position who can actually SHOOT.
RIGHT NOW, not maybe someday.
Carey couldn't beat Buddy out for SG minutes last year, but he will this year, because -
reasons?

I agree 100% with the rest of your take on Carey. He's a combo-guard, a slasher.
He's not a PG. At least, not yet.
But neither was Scoop, or MCW, or Silent G, or Frank when they all first got here.

IF he's going to see the floor, it's going to have to be at PG.
Because we have a glut of dudes at SG who can actually shoot; and a dearth of actual PG's.

I am VERY bullish on Carey's upside.
I hope he has a MCW-esque 2nd year.
And I have not remotely closed any books on him.
He needs to write more and better tho, and soon.

From what I've seen of JBA, he's more of a stretch 4 than a rim-protecting 5.
So, more Taurean Thompson (hopefully minus the quirkiness and allergy to playing D), than Baye Keita.
I hope he comes in and surprises to the upside, but that has happened so rarely for a Frosh big man, so as I said, I won't be holding my breath.

In a 3-man rotation at C with Sidibe and Marek, he's likely to get the fewest minutes.
You know how Boeheim do.

 

[kcsu]

JC is a PG.

 

[SBU72]

Lydon played the 5 and he shot 3’s. So I guess the answer is 3 years ago.

But he was not actually a center, neither is MD. Just saying other teams have "actual" centers step out and take 3s as part of their offense. JB pretty much limits their shots to 10-12 feet. Now again actual centers not pf playing center

 

[Ghost]

Until he proves he can do the most important part of playing SHOOTING GUARD, then it seems to make sense that JB will play all of the other players at that position who can actually SHOOT.
RIGHT NOW, not maybe someday.
Carey couldn't beat Buddy out for SG minutes last year, but he will this year, because -
reasons?

I agree 100% with the rest of your take on Carey. He's a combo-guard, a slasher.
He's not a PG. At least, not yet.
But neither was Scoop, or MCW, or Silent G, or Frank when they all first got here.

Since it's the offseason and there is nothing else to argue about:

1. JC was tasked with being a PG straightaway, something MCW couldn't do as a Frosh, and Frank couldn't quite ever grasp with 4 years of HOF coaching.

2. Buddy has maybe the most unique task ever handed out to a Frosh...just shoot. Don't worry about handling the ball well, or defense, just shoot - even if you're slumping. We won't even play you against Va Tech because they play pressure defense...I mean, that's a specialist right there, not a shooting guard in any modern definition of what you would expect.

The argument everyone posited for Buddy to continue shooting when his percentages were god-awful was, "[h]e can shoot! Duh! Look at his EYBL stats! We know he can shoot because he can definitely shoot. He could shoot in HS."

Somehow that same argument has held, and rarely holds water for JC - who was also expected to play defense, facilitate the offense, handle the ball, and also hit threes at a decent clip I guess - it was a slightly more complex and challenging role.

As Buddy's role changes, and he needs to do more to stay on the floor - we'll see what happens. At the moment he's proven he can be a nice complimentary piece. That's it.

When the chips were down in the NCAA tourney and he actually HAD to be a shooting guard...…….like the ONLY shooting guard, not our "specialist"...we got nada - because he doesn't have those skills. Yet.

Accordingly, I have no reason to think JC couldn't beat him out at SG next year. None. Do I think he will? I don't know. We'll see how things shake out in the off-season.

 

[newmexicuse]

Since it's the offseason and there is nothing else to argue about:

1. JC was tasked with being a PG straightaway, something MCW couldn't do as a Frosh, and Frank couldn't quite ever grasp with 4 years of HOF coaching.

2. Buddy has maybe the most unique task ever handed out to a Frosh...just shoot. Don't worry about handling the ball well, or defense, just shoot - even if you're slumping. We won't even play you against Va Tech because they play pressure defense...I mean, that's a specialist right there, not a shooting guard in any modern definition of what you would expect.

The argument everyone posited for Buddy to continue shooting when his percentages were god-awful was, "[h]e can shoot! Duh! Look at his EYBL stats! We know he can shoot because he can definitely shoot. He could shoot in HS."

Somehow that same argument has held, and rarely holds water for JC - who was also expected to play defense, facilitate the offense, handle the ball, and also hit threes at a decent clip I guess - it was a slightly more complex and challenging role.

As Buddy's role changes, and he needs to do more to stay on the floor - we'll see what happens. At the moment he's proven he can be a nice complimentary piece. That's it.

When the chips were down in the NCAA tourney and he actually HAD to be a shooting guard...…….like the ONLY shooting guard, not our "specialist"...we got nada - because he doesn't have those skills. Yet.

Accordingly, I have no reason to think JC couldn't beat him out at SG next year. None. Do I think he will? I don't know. We'll see how things shake out in the off-season.

i think your under estimating buddys role. beside shooting he did a decent job on d filling passing lanes, and he was protective of the ball. buddy played smart out there. the team had no true pg, a true pg would created better shots for buddy in his shooting role.

jalen was a turnover machine, if can correct that he will get some minutes.

 

[Ghost]

i think your under estimating buddys role. beside shooting he did a decent job on d filling passing lanes, and he was protective of the ball. buddy played smart out there. the team had no true pg, a true pg would created better shots for buddy in his shooting role.

jalen was a turnover machine, if can correct that he will get some minutes.

I don't think so.

Buddy was invaluable to the team this year, and will pay huge dividends down the road. In addition to needing a true PG, we've needed a player like him. He's a specialist though. He's about as much of a SG right now as JC is a PG. He just shot well. JC didn't do much of anything well.

A shooting guard that's "protective of the ball" as an asset is a specialist. I mean, that's not the highest compliment you can pay for someone in that role. I feel like this argument makes it sound like I'm arguing that Buddy is worthless - he's not, AT ALL.

At this stage though, this is what we got:

Adequate defense.
Not dynamic.
Not a playmaker.
CAN SHOOT!

I don't think many ACC teams are hoping to throw up that combo at SG most years. That being said, I love Buddy! I think we've needed more of these type players, and I like this class coming in because I think it's the second season in a row where we seem to have some clue about building a cohesive "team" (outside of the Center spot), but Buddy ain't no SG. I mean, if he is, than all the people saying Hughes isn't need to shut up! He can stand on the wing and shoot threes if we ask him to do nothing else too.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I am not saying that the following lineup should be our starters, nor am i saying that they will reach their upside this season, just that in the course of their careers at SU, that these are the players with the most potential at their positions:

Center - I do not see a lot of upside for Sid with his injury history or for Marek playing out of position. Jesse is a huge unknown; therefore, my biggest upside center is JBA with the potential of his three point shooting to add a totally new dimension to our O. Hopefully the rebounding and D can hold up well enough for his position.

PF - I will go with Oshae who has proven much, but still has plenty of room to improve his shooting and finishing at the rim. If he leaves, Bras has all the tools.

SF - Elijah - he had a very successful first season, room to improve his handle and add more dimensions to his game.

2G - Guerrier - he can potentially be a solid three point shooter, enuf to supplant Buddy, and he adds athleticism and handle and should be able to translate that to solid D.

PG - This one is easy for me, it is Goodine. he can shoot, he is athletic, and hopefully he can continue his development as a solid passer.

Others not mentioned:

Jalen - didn't impress at all as a frosh. too soon to give up on him, but a modern PG needs to hit some treys and that is his achilles heel even if the rest of his game came together.

Joe G - limited by size and athleticism. If somehow he could become another Frechette that would be a deal changer.

Buddy - Deadeye three point shooter, good size. I like his forays into the lane, but he has to finish on those 10 footers instead of stopping and kicking (unless he has drawn two defenders). he will be very good, but i just don't see as much upside as i do for QG.

Washington - love the kid, but just too limited athletically. If he could hit threes like buddy then he would have a shot.

Guerrier's not a guard.

Goodine has less experience at PG than Jalen Carey.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Carey
Hughes
Guerrier
Brissett
God help us (jba)

Another nice little 10 second clip of JBA appeared the other day.
These can be tantalizing, but it's hard to tell how a player is developing when you can't watch extended game clips, if not full games.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Comparing Carey, who was an excellent outside shooter in HS and EYBL to Stevie, who might be the worst outside shooting guard in Syracuse history, tells me all I need to know about you.

A lot of players who were good outside shooters in HS struggle for a year or two shooting at the college level. It is a big jump up. It usually takes time to adjust.

I don't think Carey is a natural point guard. He is a natural scorer, not a distributor. I am not closing the book on his ability to shoot from the outside. I don't think you should either. I think he is always going to be more effective playing at the 2 than at point guard, though I expect he will get more comfortable at point over time.

I think you are under estimating JBA too. Defense and rebounding are important to JB. Time will tell.

I agree, Tomcat. I think Carey would be at his best if we could get out and run, but he has to control himself a bit better. I don't see him excelling in the halfcourt until he can get a little more experience.

As for Goodine, he doesn't have the jets that Carey has; he plays more at Ennis' speed, and has a bit of a crafty handle, although not an elite one, by any means.

Since neither of these kids is the finished deal, we need what both of them can give us.

I think that's how fans should look at all the guys on the team this year; let's appreciate what they can each give us in their own way. Because a lot of these guys are still developing, he'll probably have to play an extra guy or two in his rotation, to account for foul trouble, teaching moments, etc., and piecing together the necessary skill sets to win games.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

C Jesse / Sidibe
PF Brissett (he’s back, right? / Braswell
SF Guerrier / Hughes
SG Hughes / Buddy
PG Carey / Goodtime