National Recruiting Sites Are A Joke | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

National Recruiting Sites Are A Joke

bnoro said:
The Wiltfong article about us is the first time in YEARS that we've had any sort of front page, national article on one of the sites. Huge step forward.
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It is and I don’t think there is some grand conspiracy specifically against Syracuse. What I do think is that with the mid to high 3 stars to mid to high 4 stars, there is a lot of subjectivity and their rankings are inherently flawed because they allow bias toward the top 10 or so power programs to be part of the recipe. And then they rarely if ever analytically document why they made a change which doesn’t help anything.

Joseph literally dropped 30 spots in the GA state rankings. I mean that’s a massive adjustment. And when asked why it was mostly crickets from what I could see.

As much as people say it doesn’t matter - perception wise it does. These recruiting “analysts” are often featured on CFB programming so they are part of the mainstream. It’s good to see Wiltfong paying closer attention to Syracuse - he should as should a few others now with Fran here.
 
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How often are team rankings updated by sites? I’d like to see the difference between yesterday morning and this morning. :p
 
I don’t follow recruiting much. I suspect there is a game that must be played by a school’s staff if they want their targets boosted to improve the perception of the program (and the recruiter). I get the feeling that Brown and his new staff knows how to play this game in a way our past staffs did not.
 
tep624 said:
It is and I don’t think there is some grand conspiracy specifically against Syracuse. What I do think is that with the mid to high 3 stars to mid to high 4 stars, there is a lot of subjectivity and their rankings are inherently flawed because they allow bias toward the top 10 or so power programs to be part of the recipe. And then they rarely if ever analytically document why they made a change which doesn’t help anything.
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If I’m rating a guy at four stars and he goes to a lower regarded school - I’m more likely to think he might have been overrated and drop him to three stars. Just like a three star guy going to Georgia could get bumped to four stars. So what you’re saying makes sense.

If Fran gets good recruits and can coach, and Syracuse starts winning 8-9 games a year - we’ll get off the list of school that almost automatically see their player ratings drop.
 
Cusefan95 said:
If I’m rating a guy at four stars and he goes to a lower regarded school - I’m more likely to think he might have been overrated and drop him to three stars. Just like a three star guy going to Georgia could get bumped to four stars. So what you’re saying makes sense.

If Fran gets good recruits and can coach, and Syracuse starts winning 8-9 games a year - we’ll get off the list of school that almost automatically see their player ratings drop.
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did the kid who flipped to go play for Prime get dropped?
 
David332 said:
They can try to drop King all they want; his quick speed and nasty swim move is going to wreck havok in the ACC. His ability to create pressure is ridiculous.

Admittedly I haven’t seen a lot of tape on Hornsby yet but I’m not surprised.. bunch of haters.
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King seems to be a very different case, he has been dropping consistently for a year across all the services. Not sure why of course but it wouldnt be a singular case of "chose the wrong school"
 
illi3 said:
Eh, I think thats crap. "We're not actually good at evaluating and aren't confident in our own work, so we re-assessed based of someone elses opinion" isn't really a strong defense for them ;)
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Its most likely both not a good defense and the truth. Recruiting rankings are kinda ridiculous.

It works both way though - at one point when I paid closer attention to ranking years ago, I noticed a "Notre Dame bump". A kid would commit and get bumped up in rankings. Then ND would supposedly underperform on the field and their fans would freak that they couldn't win even though their recruiting ranking were great. Reality is their recruiting was overrated and set them up for disappointment later on.
 
ArchDuke said:
Yeah, it's hard to ignore what's happening here, even just what happened here this weekend alone. Even though some media sites/members are trying to. But now that this snowball is rolling, it's only going to get harder for them to deny.
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Especially once it catches
 
ezbeezy214 said:
He changed programs and got hurt.
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If that was their reasoning, then we know they are full of it.

2021 - HCA
Transferred to Buford in January.
2022 - Buford - Injured for most season, had shoulder surgery and I believe he only ended up playing in the playoffs.
2023 - Mill Creek

Let’s see how that stacks up against the rankings (using Rivals 250 numbers).

March 2022 - Unranked to 138
June/July 2022 - Up to 109
March 2023 - Down to 141
July 2023 - Down to 224
December 2023 - Unranked

If anything, it appears the shadiness may be coming from Buford. Maybe they have a hand in making sure their guys get favorable rankings and then losing those rankings if they transfer out.
 
tep624 said:
It is and I don’t think there is some grand conspiracy specifically against Syracuse.
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I think there is because I think an employee who has ratings power has a favorite school who's in direct competition with Syracuse. These old rivals guys all started out as fans on fan boards. 15-20 years ago I had an opportunity to join as a recruiting guy.
 
Cusefan95 said:
Its most likely both not a good defense and the truth. Recruiting rankings are kinda ridiculous.

It works both way though - at one point when I paid closer attention to ranking years ago, I noticed a "Notre Dame bump". A kid would commit and get bumped up in rankings. Then ND would supposedly underperform on the field and their fans would freak that they couldn't win even though their recruiting ranking were great. Reality is their recruiting was overrated and set them up for disappointment later on.
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Rutgers suffers that same problem. Kids rated higher than they should be then the team underperforms, fans freak out. The perception of false ratings.

You're also right on with the ND bump. This is part of the problem coaches face with these sites. When they pump up a kids ranking fans think the coaches are underperforming when in reality the kids are marginal.

The opposite is true to though, Babers has put a bunch of kids in the pros now. Our top end talent was better than it was rated.

Legit scholarship offers is really the best measure, for how the people with their careers on the line, think of a players talent.

I do believe HCFB will use these sites to his advantage because he gets it.
 
SU has had some low three stars that are playing in the pros. That tells you all you need to know about these recruiting services.
 
No agenda vs SU but on the field success and more importantly the amount of subscribers matters. Imagine this forum being on the recrutiing sites. Quanitiy has power. They would answer our requests, listen to our thoughts and concerns if it takes keeping everyone here.
 
illi3 said:
Eh, I think thats crap. "We're not actually good at evaluating and aren't confident in our own work, so we re-assessed based of someone elses opinion" isn't really a strong defense for them ;)
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On the other hand, "We're not as good at evaluating talent as Kirby Smart, Nick Saban, Jim Harbaugh, and their staffs," isn't a really strong indictment of them either.

In theory there's a way to do all this with AI. Like input all the scholarship offers and OVs over the last 20 years, as well as the on-field results of those programs, as well as the future draft status of the players. Figure out how geographic location plays in. You could probably assign a rating point value to an offer from each school and an OV from each school, then use that to rank the recruits. It wouldn't be perfect, because sometimes you'd have a kid bucking trends - especially with the geography, or maybe having an interest in a smaller school for a specific reason... But overall it would be more accurate.
 
hoopsupstate said:
SU has had some low three stars that are playing in the pros. That tells you all you need to know about these recruiting services.
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Does it? Perhaps, it has just as much to do with it not being an exact science, etc. Look at all the dudes in the NFL that went to much lessor type schools, etc.. Folks develop at different stages, paces, etc. in their lives, especially physically. And, with the vast majority of high school seniors still being boys at the tender age of 17, many are no where near being close to the young men (physically) that they'll become within just a few short years.

Therefore, IMO, other than the obvious 5 star and very high 4 star types, plenty of the rest falls in the aforementioned category. So, this fact, along with possessing a very solid nutritional, strength and conditioning, developmental, etc. system/program in place plays a significant part in the comprehensive process of future success.
 
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In a sport where perception matters, it’s clear we’ll need to make our own waves for a bit while waiting for the recruiting media to catch up w Fran Brown’s reality.
 
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