NC State Post Game

[AcAndAc]

Sure, but if you are one of our potential coaching candidates after we let Autry go after two seasons, you are going to question if they are going to give the resources and the time to build a good program. Because of that, we would not be in the hunt for the top coaching candidates out there. That is what the optics are. Coaches talk.

I doubt it. Coaches are mercenaries also. Coaches talk, but coaches like getting big pay days and opportunities.

Meanwhile, my concern is that give him Year 3 becomes give him Year 4 (like G-Rob). But at least G-Rob improved from Year 1 to Year 2. When we went backwards in Year 3, that should have been the end.

Red's scenario is different in that Year 2 was worse than Year 1. So Year 3 can be an improvement over Year 2, even though it is not even as good as Year 1 (which was already not the season that anyone wanted). If we win 20 games in Year 1... 14 games in Year 2 (possible, right?)... and go 18-14 next year... it would be easy for the admin to say he is still over .500 after 3 years AND improved 22% or 29% or whatever from Year 2 to Year 3. Meanwhile, we are still out of the Big Dance and nowhere close to respectability.

And let's say they fire him after being 18-14 in Year 3 and bring in Coach Y. Coach Y now has to win 19 games to show improvement in 2026-2027. If he took the job next year, he would only have to win 15 games to show improvement. In a world where the rosters rotate every year massively, no reason why it is better to take over an 18-win team vs a 14-win team. If the freshmen next year are the difference between 18 wins and 14 wins... and are leaving anyway... so be it.

I almost think that the key issue is whether Freeman comes back. If he goes to the NBA, so be it... who knows. But if he transfers, then I think that is a referendum on Red and what to expect. Forget what some coach says after stomping us about Red's coaching ability... the perception amongst players/agents is that Syracuse is not well coached and/or not well funded. If Freeman comes back, then fans should absolutely see that as a sign for hope in Red and the program generally.

 

[Millhouse]

I swear it's because bad NBA teams are so similar. You know it when you see it.

Discipline goes away when you're bad, everyone knows it, and it just keeps getting confirmed over and over and over in a million games and possessions

No delusions, go into why not mode

 

[Nicknack]

The announcers gave JJ a dose of reality stating that his shot will not get him into the NBA and that he could be a good defender if he would would on it.

Yeah, that was interesting. They were being nice because the one commentator was saying that he will be stuck playing behind other nba guys because his shooting isn't consistent enough. The reality is that no way will JJ be on an nba roster. Just no way.

 

[stuckinbig11]

I was a Pi Kappa Alpha at SU long ago.

 

[kingtidge]

I was a Pi Kappa Alpha at SU long ago.

So was my dad.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Missed this one. Looked like we were winning easily from the jump. Should be in good spot to make ACCt right?

 

[NineOneSeven]

I was a Pi Kappa Alpha at SU long ago.

Is it a service fraternity?

 

[orangefog]

Is it a service fraternity?

Don't know, but you can't say they don't have appeal...

 

[kingtidge]

Is it a service fraternity?

No... I think they got suspended in 2015 tho for a hazing incident... It would appear the chapter got re-instated last Fall tho??

 

[stuckinbig11]

So was my dad.

What years?

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Sure, but if you are one of our potential coaching candidates after we let Autry go after two seasons, you are going to question if they are going to give the resources and the time to build a good program. Because of that, we would not be in the hunt for the top coaching candidates out there. That is what the optics are. Coaches talk.

Strongly disagree. Red's termination would demonstrate a COMMITMENT to the program, which any fierce competitor familiar with the situation would appreciate.

Apathy is keeping Red when there is virtually zero chance of success. THAT makes us less appealing.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Don't know, but you can't say they don't have appeal...

No... I think they got suspended in 2015 tho for a hazing incident... It would appear the chapter got re-instated last Fall tho??

Ahhh PIKE. Yes… I am familiar. They were there when I was there (08-12). I’ve been there before. Let’s say… I heard some stories.

 

[kingtidge]

What years?

He was a freshman in 1959 football championship year.

 

[orangefog]

He was a freshman in 1959 football championship year.

So that was probably Pike's Peak?

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

So that was probably Pike's Peak?

 

[Red2003]

The difference with Keats is that he has proven results. We have a guy with no HC experience and no track record of success that finally pushed a teetering program into the abyss. Context is important.

Keate's had no track record of success until last year either. He's been coaching 10 years to get to that.

 

[NKR1978]

Sure, but if you are one of our potential coaching candidates after we let Autry go after two seasons, you are going to question if they are going to give the resources and the time to build a good program. Because of that, we would not be in the hunt for the top coaching candidates out there. That is what the optics are. Coaches talk.

I thought that coaches would look at UConn as a messy situation after the way the Ollie tenure ended. And they did fine.

I think coaches know bad coaches when they see one and that most of these guys have some narcissism that allows them to think they'll succeed where other's have failed.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Keate's had no track record of success until last year either. He's been coaching 10 years to get to that.

That's just not even remotely true. Compare Red's experience when he was hired to that of Keatts at NCSU.

And if you're going to look at those accomplishments and say "meh" then I agree that OUR standards should be higher than a Keatts... but look what we have...

 

[dbrave]

Just a reflection…i think that coach Autry will have a third year because wildhack believes in him or because he will not want to admit he made the wrong choice. But, let’s say that wildhack thinks another specific coach ( for example Hodgson) would be the right choice at the right price. What do you do? If you wait another year, probably that train is gone and next year you could be with the same problem at the same time with one less option in front of you.

 

[NKR1978]

So was my dad.

Yesterday I had a horrible interaction with a pledge at my fraternity. I recently have gotten a little more active as an alumni and the current president had a new pledge in my family line text me. I mentioned that I have a group text with guys I pledged with and he mentioned his dad is the same way from 20 years ago. So it hurt me deep inside that I'm older than this kid's dad.

 

[Vorony]

That's just not even remotely true. Compare Red's experience when he was hired to that of Keatts at NCSU.

And if you're going to look at those accomplishments and say "meh" then I agree that OUR standards should be higher than a Keatts... but look what we have...

He also went 72-28 over 3 years at UNC Wilmington. 1st place finishes all 3 years in that conference. The guy can certainly coach better than anyone we currently have.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Just a reflection…i think that coach Autry will have a third year because wildhack believes in him or because he will not want to admit he made the wrong choice. But, let’s say that wildhack thinks another specific coach ( for example Hodgson) would be the right choice at the right price. What do you do? If you wait another year, probably that train is gone and next year you could be with the same problem at the same time with one less option in front of you.

He's going to be retained because of politics, which is exactly how this mess got started in the first place. Lots of older, out of touch folks that think loyalty to a person means more than program success. As Red's initial hire itself shows, that inertia is tough to overcome. Don't blame JW.

Next year should have been really special with the Anthonys and Friends. It's a huge opportunity for the program... and it'll be squandered before it even begins. I fear the likelihood that it will become toxic quite quickly.

 

[BillSU]

If people don't watch a lot of NBA, we play like bad NBA teams. By this I mean, bad NBA teams don't have excellent talent, but they cause a lot of their own pain. Lapses in attention, not working hard enough on defense, not fighting for good shots. Over the course of the game clock, all those little things to make the game harder add up and become too much to overcome.

That's us most nights.

But not tonight. This was a game that I remember we played like back in the 80's - 90's except for 3's made but Starling took care of some of that in the second half. Really good game we played IMHO.

 

[BillSU]

He's going to be retained because of politics, which is exactly how this mess got started in the first place. Lots of older, out of touch folks that think loyalty to a person means more than program success. As Red's initial hire itself shows, that inertia is tough to overcome. Don't blame JW.

Next year should have been really special with the Anthonys and Friends. It's a huge opportunity for the program... and it'll be squandered before it even begins. I fear the likelihood that it will become toxic quite quickly.

I believe JW is on the phone to Melo frequently regarding the team and staying with Autry/hiring a new coach. I think many here would like to see a change to a better coach, but I think JW is listening to Melo's advice and if this team has a record like this year may make a change I would think so, hope so. We do not belong with the record we have.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

But not tonight. This was a game that I remember we played like back in the 80's - 90's except for 3's made but Starling took care of some of that in the second half. Really good game we played IMHO.

Oh 100%. Maybe our best of the season.