NC State UpDown | Syracusefan.com

NC State UpDown

SWC75

Bored Historian
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
32,434
Like
62,587
The Upside

- Back when I was growing up back in the ‘60s, my brother and I enjoyed watching NFL Films weekly highlight shows of the previous Sunday’s games. Each show featured games involving the league’s 3-4 elite teams and the 2-3 really bad teams, (or decent teams having really bad years). In between there were 7-8 teams that were average but respectable and could be better than that or worse than that “on any given Sunday’. Those games were often the most interesting and exciting games, even if they didn’t make headlines beyond the local papers. The teams were well-matched but the quality of their play was inconsistent so you never knew what was going to happen. The ACC this year, beyond North Carolina and Duke, is made up of such teams and each game SU plays seems to be a different game, unrelated to season-long trends. In this homestand we’ve gone back-and forth against Miami before beating them on a buzzer shot, battled Florida State on better than even terms for 24 minutes before collapsing in the final 16. Tonight we overwhelmed a good NC State teams with our first half defense, then got the offense going and built up a big lead and, despite some problems in the second half, we managed to prevent any real comeback. What’s next? I have no idea. I’d rather know that a Syracuse win was likely. In the absence of that, I’ll take interesting games. And, at 14-6, if we can just win our share, we’ll wind up with a better record than we’ve seen in some time.

- Judah Mintz drives me crazy, (see below), but he’s still a remarkable player and huge workhorse for the team. He scored 20 points, mostly due to attempting 20 free throws. He drew an incredible 13 fouls, a stat which should be in every box score, (I’d include it in my ‘net points’ formula if it was). Despite his apparent hogging of the ball, he passed for 13 assists, meaning that his antics draw the defense to him and opens up passing lanes to everyone around him. He also led the team with 4 steals and grabbed four rebounds. Two of the steals were mid-air interceptions, one of which he came off the deck, (after one of his flops), to snag. Possessions are 9/10 of basketball, (you can’t score without them) and Judah gets us the ball. I have him for 17 net points due to going 3 for 9 when he wasn’t fouled, missing 6 free throws and turning the ball over 5 times but I you and in ‘fouls drawn’, he would have 30NP. That’s quite a player.

- The exciting thing about his team is that you can see how much better they could become. JJ Starling has fouls his shot and his game with it. He led us with a career high 26 points and he did it by hitting 9 field goals, including 4 treys. Together our sterling backcourt scored 46 of our 77 points.

- I’m starting to realize what a talent Chris Bell is, and he is, too. He was just asked to shoot in high school and became a stand-still jump shooter. In this game he was 3 for 6 from three but I also saw his drive into the paint, make a spin move and score on a pull up jumper, absorb a bump on the baseline form an aggressive Wolfpack player but hold his ground, block the shot and grab the rebound with no help for anybody, and throw down the most spectacular dunk of the season. Unfortunately, he got so excited about that play he was called for a technical foul. Red had already told him to calm down and we hardly saw Chris after that. But I want to see a lot more of what he saw from Chris in this game and I think we’ll get it.

- Red’s gotten a work out handling the different personalities on this team but I think he’s going to wind up with a passing grade on that score. The up-and-down Benny Williams had an ‘up’ game scoring 11 points, grabbing 5 rebounds and battling for many more, some of which wound up in his teammate’s hands. He often seemed to be in the right place at the right time. Chris and Benny are both huge potential sources of improvement with this team and I could envision them both being a big part of a great late-season and post-season run.

- Statistically, NC State’s ‘unique’ center, DJ Burns seemingly outplayed our’ unique’ center, Maliq Brown. Both played 28 minutes. Burns scored 10 points, had 4 rebounds and 3 assists to Maliq’ 2 points, 7 rebounds 4 assists and a steal. But Burns missed 9 of 14 shots and his only foul shot while making 2 turnovers and committing 3 fouls. Maliq only attempted one shot but made it. He did miss two free throws, (he’s been 23 for 26), and committed 4 fouls and 2 turnovers. I have Maliq with 6NP the DJ’s 2. But Maliq’s influence on this game greatly exceeded DJ’s because he was a huge part of our swarming defense that produced 10 steals and 4 blocks and held the Wolfpack to 22 first half points, (I thought it was nice of them to score that amount so the number ‘22’ appeared behind Dave Bing during the Ring of Honor ceremony). DJ doesn’t play any defense at all, from what I observed.

- Peter Carey got his first extensive minutes of the season as Red wanted to spare Maliq from having to go against Burns’ 275 pound bulk for the full 40 minutes. His numbers don’t’ suggest he played well, (he missed both of his shots and committed three fouls) but he had 4 rebounds and held his own physically despite being bumped around. I also thought I saw him block a shot but he didn’t get credit for one.

Picture1.png

What was it like for 205-pound Carey to battle 275-pound Burns?

14-6 (5-4) with 11+ to go…

LET’S GO ORANGE!


Net Points

This year I’m going to make things a bit easier on myself and just list the net points in each game after the Upside. Once a month I’ll do a deeper dive into the numbers rather than doing a “Net Points, etc.” post after every game. ‘Net’ points is the positives (points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks) minus the negatives, (missed field goals and free throws, turnovers and fouls committed).

JJ Starling game: +22NP in 40 minutes; season: 182NP in 680 minutes = 10.7NP/40m
Judah Mintz game: 17NP in 38 minutes; season: 290NP in 654 minutes = 17.7NP/40m
Chris Bell game: 12NP in 21 minutes; season: 119NP in 484 minutes = 9.8NP/40m
Benny Williams game: 11NP in 25 minutes; season: 86NP in 258 minutes = 13.3NP/40m
Maliq Brown game: 6NP in 28 minutes; season: 282NP in 513 minutes = 21.9NP/40m
Quadir Copeland game: 5NP in 18 minutes; season: 190NP in 420 minutes = 18.1NP/40m
Justin Taylor game: 3NP in 15 minutes; season: 119NP in 492 minutes = 9.7NP/40m
Kyle Cuffe game: 1NP in 3 minutes; season: 27NP in 222 minutes = 4.9NP/40m
Mounir Hima game: 0NP in 1 minutes; season: 7NP in 25 minutes = 11.2NP/40m
Peter Carey game: -1NP in 11 minutes; season: -1NP in 41 minutes = 1.0NP/40m

Hurt:
Chance Westry game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 0NP in 0 minutes = 0.0NP/40m

Out for the season:
Naheem McLeod game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 108NP in 202 minutes = 21.4NP/40m

Red Shirting:
William Patterson game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 0NP in 0 minutes = 0.0NP/40m





The Downside

- Judah drives me crazy, Part 2: His attempts to draw fouls make him look like the other guy in a Mike Tyson fight. He must get neck strain from constantly recoiling from imagined blows. I’ve always thought that most ‘flops’ are attempts to make sure the refs can’t ignore legitimate fouls and that’s how I think Judah uses it. I also wonder if he’s now trying to draw flagrant fouls. The there’s the time he lowered his head and plowed right into DJ Burns’ expansive stomach, looking like Larry Csonka trying to go over from the 1. Somehow, he got the call on that one, too. (Of course, Burns drew a foul when Maliq Brown’s jaw fouled DJ’s shoulder.) Judah must be the most hated SU player around the league. But you want to get as many players as the other team hates as you can.

- Judah’s second half length of the court pass was intercepted and resulted in a three point shot he made a minimal effort to defend. It was one of many easy buckets the Pack got in their 43 point second half. They often beat us down the court, including after we’d made shots for easy lay-ups or open threes.

- They also got too many offensive rebounds, each one of which seemed to lead to a basket, including multiple threes as they passed it back out. We held them off but it was no sure thing.

- The worse moment of the night came when leading 71-58 with 3:48 left, Burns committed a flagrant foul and we got two free throws and possession. We could virtually put the game away. But Judah, a 77% guy, missed both free throws and then we turned the ball over of Maliq’s foul. State scored at the other end after a couple missed and a steal and scored again after Starling missed a trey. It was now 71-62 with 2:12 left after we’d had a 49-28 lead, (that’s 22-34 folks). But we made the plays to pull the game out instead of having an epic collapse.

- Red was again asked about Justin Taylor in the pressor and he again made the speech about how he does a lot of things that don’t show up in the box score. Justin’s a shooter. He’s supposed to do things that show up in the box score. On one of our first possessions, he got the ball with an open shot and passed it to Starling who had a more difficult shot and missed it. In the second half, Red set up a play for him coming out of a time out. He had a 15 footer and clanked it badly. It was his only shot attempt in 15 minutes. He doesn’t want the ball and doesn’t shoot it well when he has to shoot. Other players are battling for his playing time and we’ve got a couple more on the way next year. If Justin wants a future on this team or in this sport, he’s got to start producing.

- We missed a dozen free throws after missing 11 in the last game.
 
Last edited:
Great stuff. I agree with you that Chris Bell is an emerging talent and will help the team more and more.
I also agree with your assessment of Judah -he is obviously a great talent but he does drive me crazy at times. The long pass that was intercepted, leading to an NC State 3 without him making much of an effort on D, is the best example of why.
 
Loved your write up and a couple times I laughed out loud.

Do you know what Bell did to get the technical? Some gesture? And the play where some NCST player got a technical (flagrant?) what I saw was an NCST player down on the floor under our basket, looking to be in terrific pain.

Thanks!
 
Loved your write up and a couple times I laughed out loud.

Do you know what Bell did to get the technical? Some gesture? And the play where some NCST player got a technical (flagrant?) what I saw was an NCST player down on the floor under our basket, looking to be in terrific pain.

Thanks!


I don't know, either, (on either). I had my transistor radio to my ear, (my headphones don't work very well) and I don't think Matt or Jim Satalin knew, either, although they agreed that Red had been trying to get Chris to clam down after a previous play. He may have done something to mock an opponent.

Donna Ditota:

"Bell gets a runout slam, and puts a little extra sauce on the finish. After the dunk, Bell is whistled for a technical for an apparent taunting call."

"Burns picked up a flagrant one when he torpedoed Quadir Copeland on the break with 3:41 left." But the guy on the floor was the guy who torpedoed Copeland and that surely wasn't Burns. I remember Matt and Jim expressing the same thought.

Both play-by-plays say the foul was on Burns:



I assumed he was doing something bad while everyone's eyes were on Copeland the guy who under-cut him.

The play isn't on any highlights/condensed game posts on You-Tube. Maybe they will post the full game.
 
Last edited:
I don't know, either, (on either). I had my transistor radio to my ear, (my headphones don't work very well) and I don't think Matt or Jim Satalin knew, either, although they agreed that Red had been trying to get Chris to clam down after a previous play. He may have done something to mock an opponent.

Donna Ditota:

"Bell gets a runout slam, and puts a little extra sauce on the finish. After the dunk, Bell is whistled for a technical for an apparent taunting call."

"Burns picked up a flagrant one when he torpedoed Quadir Copeland on the break with 3:41 left." But the guy on the floor was the guy who torpedoed Copeland and that surely wasn't Burns. I remember Matt and Jim expressing the same thought.

Both play-by-plays say the foul was on Burns:



I assumed he was doing something bad while everyone's eyes were on Copeland the guy who under-cut him.

The play isn't on any highlights/condensed game posts on You-Tube. Maybe they will post the full game.
On TV they said he was talking trash to some NCST guys. Said it was the second time he was talking and was warned the first time. I didn't see the warning, but that is what they were saying happened.
 
I don't know, either, (on either). I had my transistor radio to my ear, (my headphones don't work very well) and I don't think Matt or Jim Satalin knew, either, although they agreed that Red had been trying to get Chris to clam down after a previous play. He may have done something to mock an opponent.

Donna Ditota:

"Bell gets a runout slam, and puts a little extra sauce on the finish. After the dunk, Bell is whistled for a technical for an apparent taunting call."

"Burns picked up a flagrant one when he torpedoed Quadir Copeland on the break with 3:41 left." But the guy on the floor was the guy who torpedoed Copeland and that surely wasn't Burns. I remember Matt and Jim expressing the same thought.

Both play-by-plays say the foul was on Burns:



I assumed he was doing something bad while everyone's eyes were on Copeland the guy who under-cut him.

The play isn't on any highlights/condensed game posts on You-Tube. Maybe they will post the full game.
Burns got the flagrant for intentionally grabbing Copeland around the waist.
 
I don't know, either, (on either). I had my transistor radio to my ear, (my headphones don't work very well) and I don't think Matt or Jim Satalin knew, either, although they agreed that Red had been trying to get Chris to clam down after a previous play. He may have done something to mock an opponent.

Donna Ditota:

"Bell gets a runout slam, and puts a little extra sauce on the finish. After the dunk, Bell is whistled for a technical for an apparent taunting call."

"Burns picked up a flagrant one when he torpedoed Quadir Copeland on the break with 3:41 left." But the guy on the floor was the guy who torpedoed Copeland and that surely wasn't Burns. I remember Matt and Jim expressing the same thought.

Both play-by-plays say the foul was on Burns:



I assumed he was doing something bad while everyone's eyes were on Copeland the guy who under-cut him.

The play isn't on any highlights/condensed game posts on You-Tube. Maybe they will post the full game.
Burns wrapped up Cope and Cope was then thrown off balance and collided with the other player. It was the correct call.
 
It must be incredibly frustrating for a team to have to play Judah when he's getting calls like he did last night. It's demoralizing. The problem with this part of Judah's game is that he isn't always going to get the calls and when that happens, he struggles to score.
 
It must be incredibly frustrating for a team to have to play Judah when he's getting calls like he did last night. It's demoralizing. The problem with this part of Judah's game is that he isn't always going to get the calls and when that happens, he struggles to score.

Judah Mintz in ACC games: 34/98 (.347) from two, 3/15, (.200) from three and 73/94 (.777) from the foul line. That gets him 16.7 points per game.
 
Judah Mintz in ACC games: 34/98 (.347) from two, 3/15, (.200) from three and 73/94 (.777) from the foul line. That gets him 16.7 points per game.
Mintz reminds me of those hard nosed annoying NYC guards that Seton Hall, St John’s and Providence seemed to always have. Not the greatest shooters but the game definitely ran through them.
 
God Shamrod sp? etc
 

Forum statistics

Threads
167,394
Messages
4,701,141
Members
5,906
Latest member
DA CUSE

Online statistics

Members online
154
Guests online
1,819
Total visitors
1,973


Top Bottom