NCAA athletic directors of P4 meet privately at Convention

[IthacaMatt]

Looks to me like the break between the P4 and the rest has begun.

With the future of college sports uncertain, one thing is clear: An official and permanent split of NCAA Division I is here

Division I has never been more fractured, and the split between the haves and have-nots in college athletics is becoming more real than ever.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[IthacaMatt]

Looks to me like the break between the P4 and the rest has begun.

With the future of college sports uncertain, one thing is clear: An official and permanent split of NCAA Division I is here

Division I has never been more fractured, and the split between the haves and have-nots in college athletics is becoming more real than ever.

sports.yahoo.com

Just saw this, too - NCAA asking for probably some "leeway" regarding Title IX. Setting the stage for dropping some women's sports in the Brave New World. Sounds like people are making serious plans.

NCAA president seeks federal help for 'national standard' on Title IX as questions mount with House settlement

Charlie Baker is looking to the government for "guidance" over Title IX concerns

www.cbssports.com

 

[WoadBlue]

Just saw this, too - NCAA asking for probably some "leeway" regarding Title IX. Setting the stage for dropping some women's sports in the Brave New World. Sounds like people are making serious plans.

NCAA president seeks federal help for 'national standard' on Title IX as questions mount with House settlement

Charlie Baker is looking to the government for "guidance" over Title IX concerns

www.cbssports.com

Title IX ruined a bunch of good non-r3evenue sports at many schools. NCSU used to have lacrosse, for example.

My family story: a kinswoman graduated from HS in 2001. She played on a TN HS soccer team that wa safely above .500. She started maybe 2/3rds of the time. She had more than a dozen colleges all D2 I think, offer her athletic scholarship, as well a s many D1 (non-athleic scholarship) schools begging her to take their need package to play soccer for them. She rejected al of them because she was tired of playing.

Title IX like so many things fails total any notice of who pays, as if it all just floats from the sky. So the right thing to do in comparing moneys spent on mens and women;s sports is to place them in category of either revenue or non-revenue. So, Syracuse football and men's basketball would be outside the compression and SU would be required to offer the same basic number of men's non revenue sports with the same basic number of scholarships as it offer to women's sports.

 

[upperdeck]

Title IX ruined a bunch of good non-r3evenue sports at many schools. NCSU used to have lacrosse, for example.

My family story: a kinswoman graduated from HS in 2001. She played on a TN HS soccer team that wa safely above .500. She started maybe 2/3rds of the time. She had more than a dozen colleges all D2 I think, offer her athletic scholarship, as well a s many D1 (non-athleic scholarship) schools begging her to take their need package to play soccer for them. She rejected al of them because she was tired of playing.

Title IX like so many things fails total any notice of who pays, as if it all just floats from the sky. So the right thing to do in comparing moneys spent on mens and women;s sports is to place them in category of either revenue or non-revenue. So, Syracuse football and men's basketball would be outside the compression and SU would be required to offer the same basic number of men's non revenue sports with the same basic number of scholarships as it offer to women's sports.

not completely true though.. if the sports wanted to go self funded they could offer the scholie and there would be no title IX effect.

 

[Hoo's That]

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

And before anyone says anything, the "activity receiving Federal assistance" is considered the schools.

The Title IX problem is the 85-scholarship elephant sitting in the corner that no one wants to mention (i.e., football). Today, because of a variety of factors most schools have a majority female student body. (We can argue about why this is good, bad, or indifferent from now until doomsday.) The Education Department, which is responsible for enforcing Title IX, has cut extraordinary slack to colleges and has accepted making honest efforts to expand opportunities for women as part of compliance, even though it doesn't have to under the law. If some administration tries to make the revenue/non-revenue distinction through executive order, they can expect to lose in the courts because the "black letter law" (what's written on the page) doesn't make that exemption and the legislative history of passage works against it. Senator John Tower (R-TX) tried to get football exempted when Title IX was under consideration in Congress and was soundly rebuffed.

 

[upperdeck]

You could argue that title IX is actually the reverse in many ways. I wonder what the real ratio of sports to gender is.

Has there been an actual study on the inequality? I don't know how much things have changed when I was in college but just randomly looking at intramurals it was about 90/10 guys to girls playing them? Does it match the schools closer population now?

if you have a school with 100/100 and 75 boys want to play sports and 25 girls but you offer 50 spots to each does that make it fair? Its probably come a long way from back in the day where you had to beg to get the girls to play on teams. Thats a good thing.

 

[Hoo's That]

You could argue that title IX is actually the reverse in many ways. I wonder what the real ratio of sports to gender is.

Has there been an actual study on the inequality? I don't know how much things have changed when I was in college but just randomly looking at intramurals it was about 90/10 guys to girls playing them? Does it match the schools closer population now?

if you have a school with 100/100 and 75 boys want to play sports and 25 girls but you offer 50 spots to each does that make it fair? Its probably come a long way from back in the day where you had to beg to get the girls to play on teams. Thats a good thing.

The schools' obligation is to provide an equal opportunity to participate. If they're making a reasonable effort to provide the sports that women want in intramurals or the varsity level, then the actual numbers that show up is immaterial. It's hard to imagine intramurals having a limited number of participation slots.

 

[texascpa]

Just saw this, too - NCAA asking for probably some "leeway" regarding Title IX. Setting the stage for dropping some women's sports in the Brave New World. Sounds like people are making serious plans.

NCAA president seeks federal help for 'national standard' on Title IX as questions mount with House settlement

Charlie Baker is looking to the government for "guidance" over Title IX concerns

www.cbssports.com

I'm guessing, without reading the article, it has more to do with direct payments to athletes. Title IX will most likely require that women on the rowing team make as much as men on the football team.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The schools' obligation is to provide an equal opportunity to participate. If they're making a reasonable effort to provide the sports that women want in intramurals or the varsity level, then the actual numbers that show up is immaterial. It's hard to imagine intramurals having a limited number of participation slots.

True equal opportunity would be to compete for one team per sport, not having two teams for the same sport segregated by gender.

 

[All4SU]

I thought football could in theory be outside of Title IX because women can play on the football teams if they are good enough - e.g. a kicker or two in recent years? It’s called Football. Not Men’s Football.

 

[longtimefan]

True equal opportunity would be to compete for one team per sport, not having two teams for the same sport segregated by gender.

Flag football is on the horizon. Hell, they're giving scholarships for e-"sports".

 

[Dinkyspond]

Flag football is on the horizon. Hell, they're giving scholarships for e-"sports".

Yes, colleges will be getting flag football. It is becoming wildly popular at the high school level. Gotta believe it will eventually become an NCAA (if that even will exist in the future) sport or official college sport by whatever governing body we have then

 

[Orijinal]

Huh? I'm confused. Are we talking about girls playing football with boys in this thread?

 

[WoadBlue]

You could argue that title IX is actually the reverse in many ways. I wonder what the real ratio of sports to gender is.

Has there been an actual study on the inequality? I don't know how much things have changed when I was in college but just randomly looking at intramurals it was about 90/10 guys to girls playing them? Does it match the schools closer population now?

if you have a school with 100/100 and 75 boys want to play sports and 25 girls but you offer 50 spots to each does that make it fair? Its probably come a long way from back in the day where you had to beg to get the girls to play on teams. Thats a good thing.

What is the ratio of males who would love to keep playing sports after HS to females who would love to keep playing sports after HS? It is closer than it was in, say, 1985, but as in HS today it is not close to 50/50. Nor will it ever be without even more big money inducements combined with endless pop culture teaching.

 

[WoadBlue]

True equal opportunity would be to compete for one team per sport, not having two teams for the same sport segregated by gender.

If I were in college today, I probably would declare myself Female to play some chick sport. Showering with the other girls. Crammed between them while traveling late at night. Staying in same motel rooms. Can't beat that.

 

[Cusester]

If I were in college today, I probably would declare myself Female to play some chick sport. Showering with the other girls. Crammed between them while traveling late at night. Staying in same motel rooms. Can't beat that.

You may not realize that in real colleges and universities, they actually expect you to attend class. Shocking, I know.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You may not realize that in real colleges and universities, they actually expect you to attend class. Shocking, I know.

It's not that hard to maintain a 2.0.

 

[WoadBlue]

You may not realize that in real colleges and universities, they actually expect you to attend class. Shocking, I know.

What has that got to do with anything? Lia Thomas went to class and still got to play girls swimming.

 

[elimunelson]

If I were in college today, I probably would declare myself Female to play some chick sport. Showering with the other girls. Crammed between them while traveling late at night. Staying in same motel rooms. Can't beat that.

Mature response.

Just remove football from any of these discussions in some sort of “baseball is exempt from anti trust” decision and go from there.

 

[kcsu]

It's obvious that football is going to govern itself apart from the other sports.
I see football and possibly power 4 basketball traveling for conference games.
Eventually I see all other men and women's sports belonging to different regional leagues. Including Hockey Lax baseball softball track swimming etc.

 

[texascpa]

Flag football is on the horizon. Hell, they're giving scholarships for e-"sports".

Yes, colleges will be getting flag football. It is becoming wildly popular at the high school level. Gotta believe it will eventually become an NCAA (if that even will exist in the future) sport or official college sport by whatever governing body we have then

It will never be popular enough to generate income, though. Never. Remember 10 some years ago when posters on this very board were claiming soccer would overtake football in popularity due to the concussion issue, the world-wide popularity and migration patterns? Yeah, that hasn't even come close to true. We are very stuck in out traditions, for good or bad.

 

[Hoo's That]

I thought football could in theory be outside of Title IX because women can play on the football teams if they are good enough - e.g. a kicker or two in recent years? It’s called Football. Not Men’s Football.

A. How many kickers get scholarships, let alone female kickers?
B. If they do give a female kicker a scholarship, then football is down to 84 scholarships for men at a school that is probably majority-female. The allocation of scholarships and "opportunities" for women would be plussed up by 1 slot. BTW, the male former HS b-ball players who practice against most women's varsities count as opportunities for female athletes.

 

[Hoo's That]

It's obvious that football is going to govern itself apart from the other sports.
I see football and possibly power 4 basketball traveling for conference games.
Eventually I see all other men and women's sports belonging to different regional leagues. Including Hockey Lax baseball softball track swimming etc.

I've long said that the eventual endgame is that class attendance becomes optional (really meaning "forbidden") for football, basketball, and possibly baseball/softball players. Those sports will leave the NCAA in order to accomplish that.

 

[longtimefan]

It will never be popular enough to generate income, though. Never. Remember 10 some years ago when posters on this very board were claiming soccer would overtake football in popularity due to the concussion issue, the world-wide popularity and migration patterns? Yeah, that hasn't even come close to true. We are very stuck in out traditions, for good or bad.

The issue isn't popularity. It's about balancing gender scholarship opportunities. Adding a sport like flag football will accommodate more women.