NCAA, power conferences agree to allow schools to pay players

[Newhouser]

Just look at the WNBA Aces. NIL is not going away. It will still play a pivotal role in getting certain players.

Looks like each school will be capped at 21 million dollars to use on their athletes.

I think this leaves a lot of questions. Are they able then to facilitate NIL deals apart from the 21 million dollars? I would assume not. I would assume the school would be hard capped at that 21 million dollars. So any additional funds, endorsements would continue to come from the collectives.

Schools with big collectives will be able to utilize those collectives to pay more players and higher salaries than the less fortunate collectives.

It’s a start, but I think there are still a ton of questions left to be figured out.

Edit: just read the two threads on X from above. The NIL 3rd party reporting is very interesting and fair market value. That’s an interesting twist. Another interesting twist is title IX. Will you have to pay the same number of female athletes and male athletes? Or will it have to be the same monetary value to females and males.

Personally I think they should split the money up per sport. That way everyone is playing on equal footing. It creates parity. You’re going to have some schools that spend way more on basketball than football. Like the Big East for example. How much do they get. These schools will spend all the money on basketball while other schools are supporting football too. Creating a potential unfair advantage.

There has always been an unfair advantage in terms of spending. Schools choose what they want to spend. For me the "it can't be pay to play" stuff is faux there student athletes, academics matter, what about the non revenue sports, etc.
Again if all of us weren't worried about SU getting moved to the little kids table we'd be asking why can't we spend as much as we want on whatever we want.

 

[javadoc]

Here's a good legal take on the actual mechanisms...

I have not had time to read yet. If we are getting into employment contracts, can the pay-for-play aspect be terminated if the player isn't contributing? Maybe the player stays in school and is still technically on the team, but the money shuts off?

 

[tptcuse]

How much of the $2.7 billion do the attorneys get?

 

[JKinPhilly]

Just wait until the first time a season is interrupted due to a lockout or a player strike

 

[CousCuse]

Yes.

Do you think a judge will invalidate your mortgage just because you no longer like the terms you agreed to?

Only teams from the B1G/SEC will make the playoffs.

 

[orangecuse]

It appears obvious that the most critical aspect is one of a true/enforced salary cap, as the NFL has. This is the reason why smaller market teams in the NFL can win, and consistently at that. Unlike the NBA that has a soft/luxury cap, etc. or MLB that hasn't any cap at all, and, therefore, why it's typically the large market teams having the most success.

NIL in the college game still is problematic in my opinion. I can see where the rich getting richer still exists as those schools that have many and more wealthy boosters still finding a way to get the 5 stars, highest rated transfers and the like extra dough. I can see where the cash bags will still be a tactic to lure better/top players even if that school has maxed out its cap, finding a way "creatively" in avoiding the extra moneys being traced back (W2, 1099, etc.) to the beneficiaries.

Now, if these top/higher regarded players are striking legit NIL deals where they are actually pitching products, services, etc., as the professionals do in the NFL,NBA, etc., well then that's is a horse of a different color as it's truly NIL, their market value, etc. based on same.

 

[sabach]

Can we just fully admit that colleges are businesses and not non-profits?

Colleges are businesses for sure, as are many hospitals and other charitable organizations.

All not-for-profit means is that the organization does not pay out its profits at the end of the year as dividends to its owners, members and/or shareholders. It has nothing to do with making money or not making money. Many non for profits from charities to churches to public universities take in more money than they pay out in a given year (which is by any definition, making a profit) but they remain a not for profit institution as long as that profit is not paid out and remains in the organization.

In addition, a non-profit organization (which is different from a not-for-profit) is one that qualifies for tax-exempt status by the IRS because its mission and purpose are to further a social cause and provide a public benefit. Non profit organizations include hospitals, universities, national charities, and foundations.

So many organizations are both not-for-profit because they hold all profits within the organization and are also non profit and get tax breaks from the IRS because of the public good that organization performs.

But any of these organizations can make millions more than they spend each year and that "profit" does not affect its status in either category.

 

[Willy75]

I’d like to know whether a group of schools can legally set up a conference where athletes aren’t paid (other than traditional scholarships).

 

[Wrinkle]

All of this stuff sucks -- don't want to hear about it, don't want to contemplate the implications for the game (no need to, it will obviously corrupt and destroy it). Losing interest in all of it quickly

 

[JimBoston]

It’s the last paragraph here that gives me hope for the future of college sports. A profit sharing system which evens the playing field at least somewhat. Dare I say, possibly a system where a kid chooses a school for an athletic, academic or favorite school growing up reason instead of going door to door with his or her hand out.

The revenue sharing plan overwhelmingly favors the P2 as they have more media revenues to share and is the main reason Clemson and FSU want out of the ACC. And, Title IX issues could be financial hits for many athletic departments especially if a school has not been promoting women's athletics over the past 10 years or providing equal NIL opportunities. The last thing any school wants is a Title IX audit as you may not like the findings.

 

[Hoo's That]

I’d like to know whether a group of schools can legally set up a conference where athletes aren’t paid (other than traditional scholarships).

Sure they could. As long as everything is specified up front, it shouldn't be a problem. The traditional scholarship is their "compensation" under the contract they'd be signing (which is the one they sign right now).

 

[javadoc]

The revenue sharing plan overwhelmingly favors the P2 as they have more media revenues to share and is the main reason Clemson and FSU want out of the ACC. And, Title IX issues could be financial hits for many athletic departments especially if a school has not been promoting women's athletics over the past 10 years or providing equal NIL opportunities. The last thing any school wants is a Title IX audit as you may not like the findings.

This is the "doomsday" scenario that makes the extra $15M/y - or whatever the Big 10 gets - a valid point of argument for FSU. Legal matters aside, this could be the moment when schools start to say, that extra $ now really really matters, and is completely above the table - so we need to scratch and claw and distort academic consortia and generally do whatever the hell we need to, to keep up with the Bubbas. And television networks will pour gasoline on the fire they started.

Someone has to establish an enforceable cap. Period.

Previous supreme court rulings like the Oklahoma case that allowed conferences to pursue television Faustian dollars outside the NCAA's control spoke to what constitutes the "market" in college athletics. Enterprising attorneys should probably start preparing arguments related to the market including the schools and fans who are going to be left behind by these changes, and that there could be an anti-competitive practices angle in play.

 

[FloridaCuse]

This sounds like a disaster. School athletic departments are gonna go bankrupt with the terms of this settlement.. Why does anyone think this is a good idea? I understand revenue sharing for athletes going forward, but pay for athletes who are long gone makes zero sense. NCAA rules had forbidden it.

only good because the expected alternative is worse -- Court judgment of maybe ten times the $2.7B settlement. Bankrupt the NCAA and who knows whether the member institutions would have to pay it in its place.

 

[kcsu]

A couple of thoughts
Eliminate NIL payments for charity appearances.
Establish simple means of establishing NIL value for endorsements.
Require all school compensation and NIL compensation to be recognized and documented.
Last point. The ACC increased its revenue last year by approximately 100 Million.
43 Million per team
FSU.

 

[FloridaCuse]

I’d like to know whether a group of schools can legally set up a conference where athletes aren’t paid (other than traditional scholarships).

probably only if they share with the athletes any revenue received from media rights and they allow NIL payments. I think that was the basis of the 3 current lawsuits that are being settled.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Here's a good article last night by SU and Daily Orange Alum ESPN's Pete Thamel. The 3 big issues are Title IX (how to comply with it), NIL (how to monitor it), and roster caps.

Thamel: It's a new day for college sports, but the future remains unclear

A landmark settlement will provide billions in pay to college athletes. But because this is college sports, nothing will be easy.

www.espn.com

 

[Stern]

So, past 24 hours I have been reading up on this and listening to people smarter than me talk about the fallout of what is coming next. A few things I have heard.

1) The competitive gulf between the HAVES and HAVE-NOTS is now larger than ever. With the Power 5 schools now going to share 20% of their media rights deals with players, the non-power 5 schools are at a huge competitive disadvantage, and they will die a fast death once this all kicks in (not die in like go away, just die in not being able to compete with the Big Boy conferences for talent.) Hell, this ruling makes it tough for the ACC and BIG 12 to keep up with the SEC/Big 10 and the ACC and Big 12 are going to struggle. For the smaller conferences, they literally have no shot in hell of being competitive with the P5 schools on the field moving forward.

The next logical step after this news is the Big10/SEC absorbing up who they want from the Big 12 and ACC and splitting away from the non-power 5 schools and creating their own league, essentially. Now that they have to share TV rights deals, its an arms race between the SEC and BIG 10 to build up the conference, re-work their TV deals to get more money, so after they SHARE this money with the players, they still come out way ahead. Even for the super rich SEC/BIG 10 status quo now is not what it was yesterday financially. So, build up, get new richer deals, so more take home money for all of the schools.

This clears the path for that to happen and probably sooner than it would have happened anyway in time if this news didn't happen this week. Long Story short; Recruiting in the SEC and BIG 10 will be very easy, and its hard for other schools to recruit against them now. And the players in the transfer portal will be looking to run to SEC and Big 10 Schools above all else knowing the money there is greater.

2) With schools being able to pay the players directly, expect a lot of changes. Obviously, unionization is coming for the players. It won't be easy because, unlike MLB/NFL/NBA, these kids are only going to be in school, and this union is for 1-4 years max, a high churn rate obviously, so the union won't be as powerful and will look different than the ones we see in professional sports. But it will happen and they will fight for the players.

3) Paying players and how it ties into scholarships will be very interesting to see. With players now being "paid school employees," do scholarships the way we know them change drastically? Will Schols be like, your tuition is covered in your scholarship, but since your a "paid employee of the school" you must pay for your Room and Food on campus, so bill is in the mail for that make sure you pay it on time. Schools will push for that, Im sure in any CBA the "union" works out this will be addressed. But, if players are employees, getting a cut of the TV rights deals, then the days of "complete and total free rides" may be changing.

3) NIL isn't going away nor will it change much from its current structure. Nothing with this news will affect NIL

4) Total Scholarship limits (aka Roster limits aka Roster caps) are going to be the big fallout from this. There has to be somewhat of an even playing field and expect to be in total scholarship limits for each school. And the key is for each sport scholarship number cannot exceed the roster limit.

Say each school gets 150 scholarships (again just an example and round number) Football will have a roster limit of 90 roster spots, No school can allocate MORE than 90 scholorships to it's football team. Some schools may only want 75 scholarships allocated to football, have 15 walk-ons, and that is how you get to 90 roster spots. And use the 15 they can allocate towards football if they want and use them elsewhere instead and beef up its baseball, field hockey, and track and field teams.

But a school like CLEMSON (just for example) can't allocate 105 scholarships towards football, get rid of their walk-on program, because they are only allowed 90 roster spots and 90 scholarships max towards football.

And in the sports that bring in little revenue, say field hockey. If the roster limit is say 25 for example, you may have one school with only 8 scholarship girls on roster, rest walk-on's. And one school with 20 scholarship players on roster because each school will divide up the scholarships differently amongst all the sports. But to sum it up...a lot of these "nonrevenue sports" will be going away, unfortunately because of this. And the ones that won't go away will have MAJOR staff cuts as more money is now going out in all athletic departments. Everyone will be tightening up and counting pennies.

5) The one surprising thing in this is that MARCH MADNESS isn't going away. It was thought that when (again when not if) the BIG 10/SEC split away from the NCAA and all of the other conferences that they would do their own version of March Madness just with those schools. There is actually now protections in place to stop that. So, even if the SEC/BIG10 do split away, March Madness is preserved and they still have to play with the small schools each March in postseason basketball. Odd this got lumped in with everything else but ultimately good.


Those are some of the things I have heard/read thus far. Nothing is set in stone, obviously, but the landscape has changed forever now. Is this GOOD or BAD for a private school like Syracuse? I would say ultimately probably BAD. Maybe not right away, but in time, it will be. We better hope the BIG 10 throws us a life jacket when the next scramble happens in a few years. Or hope the SEC wants to expand north. We will see

 

[hoopsupstate]

What‘s the chance that there is one bargaining unit and everyone gets paid the same? If the SEC and BIG 10 want more revenue, they should have to pay a bigger piece of the settlement.

 

[FloridaCuse]

What‘s the chance that there is one bargaining unit and everyone gets paid the same? If the SEC and BIG 10 want more revenue, they should have to pay a bigger piece of the settlement.

I think part of the proposal of the College Sports Tomorrow with total realignment discussions was to have a CBA with one bargaining unit as part of the settlement with the plaintiffs of these 3 lawsuits. But I don't know if it would have resulted in everyone being paid the same. I doubt that it would.

 

[Toga]

So, past 24 hours I have been reading up on this and listening to people smarter than me talk about the fallout of what is coming next. A few things I have heard.

1) The competitive gulf between the HAVES and HAVE-NOTS is now larger than ever. With the Power 5 schools now going to share 20% of their media rights deals with players, the non-power 5 schools are at a huge competitive disadvantage, and they will die a fast death once this all kicks in (not die in like go away, just die in not being able to compete with the Big Boy conferences for talent.) Hell, this ruling makes it tough for the ACC and BIG 12 to keep up with the SEC/Big 10 and the ACC and Big 12 are going to struggle. For the smaller conferences, they literally have no shot in hell of being competitive with the P5 schools on the field moving forward.

The next logical step after this news is the Big10/SEC absorbing up who they want from the Big 12 and ACC and splitting away from the non-power 5 schools and creating their own league, essentially. Now that they have to share TV rights deals, its an arms race between the SEC and BIG 10 to build up the conference, re-work their TV deals to get more money, so after they SHARE this money with the players, they still come out way ahead. Even for the super rich SEC/BIG 10 status quo now is not what it was yesterday financially. So, build up, get new richer deals, so more take home money for all of the schools.

This clears the path for that to happen and probably sooner than it would have happened anyway in time if this news didn't happen this week. Long Story short; Recruiting in the SEC and BIG 10 will be very easy, and its hard for other schools to recruit against them now. And the players in the transfer portal will be looking to run to SEC and Big 10 Schools above all else knowing the money there is greater.

2) With schools being able to pay the players directly, expect a lot of changes. Obviously, unionization is coming for the players. It won't be easy because, unlike MLB/NFL/NBA, these kids are only going to be in school, and this union is for 1-4 years max, a high churn rate obviously, so the union won't be as powerful and will look different than the ones we see in professional sports. But it will happen and they will fight for the players.

3) Paying players and how it ties into scholarships will be very interesting to see. With players now being "paid school employees," do scholarships the way we know them change drastically? Will Schols be like, your tuition is covered in your scholarship, but since your a "paid employee of the school" you must pay for your Room and Food on campus, so bill is in the mail for that make sure you pay it on time. Schools will push for that, Im sure in any CBA the "union" works out this will be addressed. But, if players are employees, getting a cut of the TV rights deals, then the days of "complete and total free rides" may be changing.

3) NIL isn't going away nor will it change much from its current structure. Nothing with this news will affect NIL

4) Total Scholarship limits (aka Roster limits aka Roster caps) are going to be the big fallout from this. There has to be somewhat of an even playing field and expect to be in total scholarship limits for each school. And the key is for each sport scholarship number cannot exceed the roster limit.

Say each school gets 150 scholarships (again just an example and round number) Football will have a roster limit of 90 roster spots, No school can allocate MORE than 90 scholorships to it's football team. Some schools may only want 75 scholarships allocated to football, have 15 walk-ons, and that is how you get to 90 roster spots. And use the 15 they can allocate towards football if they want and use them elsewhere instead and beef up its baseball, field hockey, and track and field teams.

But a school like CLEMSON (just for example) can't allocate 105 scholarships towards football, get rid of their walk-on program, because they are only allowed 90 roster spots and 90 scholarships max towards football.

And in the sports that bring in little revenue, say field hockey. If the roster limit is say 25 for example, you may have one school with only 8 scholarship girls on roster, rest walk-on's. And one school with 20 scholarship players on roster because each school will divide up the scholarships differently amongst all the sports. But to sum it up...a lot of these "nonrevenue sports" will be going away, unfortunately because of this. And the ones that won't go away will have MAJOR staff cuts as more money is now going out in all athletic departments. Everyone will be tightening up and counting pennies.

5) The one surprising thing in this is that MARCH MADNESS isn't going away. It was thought that when (again when not if) the BIG 10/SEC split away from the NCAA and all of the other conferences that they would do their own version of March Madness just with those schools. There is actually now protections in place to stop that. So, even if the SEC/BIG10 do split away, March Madness is preserved and they still have to play with the small schools each March in postseason basketball. Odd this got lumped in with everything else but ultimately good.


Those are some of the things I have heard/read thus far. Nothing is set in stone, obviously, but the landscape has changed forever now. Is this GOOD or BAD for a private school like Syracuse? I would say ultimately probably BAD. Maybe not right away, but in time, it will be. We better hope the BIG 10 throws us a life jacket when the next scramble happens in a few years. Or hope the SEC wants to expand north. We will see

Well I don't like it. Not one bit.

 

[FloridaCuse]

So, past 24 hours I have been reading up on this and listening to people smarter than me talk about the fallout of what is coming next. A few things I have heard.

1) The competitive gulf between the HAVES and HAVE-NOTS is now larger than ever. With the Power 5 schools now going to share 20% of their media rights deals with players, the non-power 5 schools are at a huge competitive disadvantage, and they will die a fast death once this all kicks in (not die in like go away, just die in not being able to compete with the Big Boy conferences for talent.) Hell, this ruling makes it tough for the ACC and BIG 12 to keep up with the SEC/Big 10 and the ACC and Big 12 are going to struggle. For the smaller conferences, they literally have no shot in hell of being competitive with the P5 schools on the field moving forward.

The next logical step after this news is the Big10/SEC absorbing up who they want from the Big 12 and ACC and splitting away from the non-power 5 schools and creating their own league, essentially. Now that they have to share TV rights deals, its an arms race between the SEC and BIG 10 to build up the conference, re-work their TV deals to get more money, so after they SHARE this money with the players, they still come out way ahead. Even for the super rich SEC/BIG 10 status quo now is not what it was yesterday financially. So, build up, get new richer deals, so more take home money for all of the schools.

This clears the path for that to happen and probably sooner than it would have happened anyway in time if this news didn't happen this week. Long Story short; Recruiting in the SEC and BIG 10 will be very easy, and its hard for other schools to recruit against them now. And the players in the transfer portal will be looking to run to SEC and Big 10 Schools above all else knowing the money there is greater.

2) With schools being able to pay the players directly, expect a lot of changes. Obviously, unionization is coming for the players. It won't be easy because, unlike MLB/NFL/NBA, these kids are only going to be in school, and this union is for 1-4 years max, a high churn rate obviously, so the union won't be as powerful and will look different than the ones we see in professional sports. But it will happen and they will fight for the players.

3) Paying players and how it ties into scholarships will be very interesting to see. With players now being "paid school employees," do scholarships the way we know them change drastically? Will Schols be like, your tuition is covered in your scholarship, but since your a "paid employee of the school" you must pay for your Room and Food on campus, so bill is in the mail for that make sure you pay it on time. Schools will push for that, Im sure in any CBA the "union" works out this will be addressed. But, if players are employees, getting a cut of the TV rights deals, then the days of "complete and total free rides" may be changing.

3) NIL isn't going away nor will it change much from its current structure. Nothing with this news will affect NIL

4) Total Scholarship limits (aka Roster limits aka Roster caps) are going to be the big fallout from this. There has to be somewhat of an even playing field and expect to be in total scholarship limits for each school. And the key is for each sport scholarship number cannot exceed the roster limit.

Say each school gets 150 scholarships (again just an example and round number) Football will have a roster limit of 90 roster spots, No school can allocate MORE than 90 scholorships to it's football team. Some schools may only want 75 scholarships allocated to football, have 15 walk-ons, and that is how you get to 90 roster spots. And use the 15 they can allocate towards football if they want and use them elsewhere instead and beef up its baseball, field hockey, and track and field teams.

But a school like CLEMSON (just for example) can't allocate 105 scholarships towards football, get rid of their walk-on program, because they are only allowed 90 roster spots and 90 scholarships max towards football.

And in the sports that bring in little revenue, say field hockey. If the roster limit is say 25 for example, you may have one school with only 8 scholarship girls on roster, rest walk-on's. And one school with 20 scholarship players on roster because each school will divide up the scholarships differently amongst all the sports. But to sum it up...a lot of these "nonrevenue sports" will be going away, unfortunately because of this. And the ones that won't go away will have MAJOR staff cuts as more money is now going out in all athletic departments. Everyone will be tightening up and counting pennies.

5) The one surprising thing in this is that MARCH MADNESS isn't going away. It was thought that when (again when not if) the BIG 10/SEC split away from the NCAA and all of the other conferences that they would do their own version of March Madness just with those schools. There is actually now protections in place to stop that. So, even if the SEC/BIG10 do split away, March Madness is preserved and they still have to play with the small schools each March in postseason basketball. Odd this got lumped in with everything else but ultimately good.


Those are some of the things I have heard/read thus far. Nothing is set in stone, obviously, but the landscape has changed forever now. Is this GOOD or BAD for a private school like Syracuse? I would say ultimately probably BAD. Maybe not right away, but in time, it will be. We better hope the BIG 10 throws us a life jacket when the next scramble happens in a few years. Or hope the SEC wants to expand north. We will see

A couple of additional thoughts on your great write-up. I believe that the current intention of the schools is that the athletes will not be considered employees thus possibly limiting their ability to unionize. That might be in the settlement agreement but I'm not sure. And that issue may be subject to further litigation. The schools would like Congress to legislate that. Second, while NIL is not going away and may end up being bigger, the schools want there to be some new enforcement mechanism outside the NCAA so it really is payment for NIL and not pay for play. And lastly, the reasons the agreement preserves March Madness is because the NCAA needs to have a mechanism to have the revenue to pay for their portion of the settlement over the 10 years. I think their portion is 40% of the settlement.

 

[Stern]

What‘s the chance that there is one bargaining unit and everyone gets paid the same? If the SEC and BIG 10 want more revenue, they should have to pay a bigger piece of the settlement.

The revenue is coming from the individual TV deals in place from each conference, so they already have more revenue than every other conference, especially the non P5 conferences.

If there is an agreement that a football player at Ohio St makes the same as a football player at Boise St, then the Big 10 and SEC will break away from the NCAA in a day. It won't be that way, the big conference schools (P5 and really P2) will want any new system set up so they have an advantage.

The first time someone tries to make something "fair"...this house of cards crumbles.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

 

[kcsu]

The revenue is coming from the individual TV deals in place from each conference, so they already have more revenue than every other conference, especially the non P5 conferences.

If there is an agreement that a football player at Ohio St makes the same as a football player at Boise St, then the Big 10 and SEC will break away from the NCAA in a day. It won't be that way, the big conference schools (P5 and really P2) will want any new system set up so they have an advantage.

The first time someone tries to make something "fair"...this house of cards crumbles.

Unless it's congress

 

[Willy75]

A couple of additional thoughts on your great write-up. I believe that the current intention of the schools is that the athletes will not be considered employees thus possibly limiting their ability to unionize. That might be in the settlement agreement but I'm not sure. And that issue may be subject to further litigation. The schools would like Congress to legislate that. Second, while NIL is not going away and may end up being bigger, the schools want there to be some new enforcement mechanism outside the NCAA so it really is payment for NIL and not pay for play. And lastly, the reasons the agreement preserves March Madness is because the NCAA needs to have a mechanism to have the revenue to pay for their portion of the settlement over the 10 years. I think their portion is 40% of the settlement.

What if a school says no thanks, we’re not going forward with this craziness. Are they on the hook for “back pay”?