Class of 2020 New Commit: Liam Ferris (NY) A/M

[Shrmdougluvr]

How long until the rest of Suburban Council catches up with Nisky? Bethlehem, Shen, Guilderland, etc. are all running huge youth lacrosse programs beginning in some places as young as kindergarten. Is there a gap even at the youth age groups?

 

[Bspalax]

How long until the rest of Suburban Council catches up with Nisky? Bethlehem, Shen, Guilderland, etc. are all running huge youth lacrosse programs beginning in some places as young as kindergarten. Is there a gap even at the youth age groups?

The Gap is closed at the youth level. Much more competitive up through modified. However, coaching at HS level is great at Nisky and this Senior class is deep. Should more interesting going forward.

 

[illestcuse]

 

[CHSLAX]

Very true Bspalax. Nisky is very skilled at taking average to decent youth players and turning them into stars. Their coaching at the modified, JV and VArsity level is superior to other Section 2 schools. Kids are coached year round. Bethlehem had 3 AA's this year (out of 5 total for the section/Nisky had other 2) and were overmatched in both the regular season and the Sect 2 final. They also rarely lose players to the private schools (defenseman Riley who was an AA at Hopkins was the last I remember leaving Nisky) which happens frequently elsewhere in SEct 2.

 

[PhatOrange]

I don't believe there is much of a gap at the youth level. Everybody beats everybody. The separation is occurring at the modified, JV and Varsity levels where the coaching and commitment is superior. Particularly with Nisky. It's no accident that Vorgang and Nisky run Albany Power. The equivalent would be West Genesee, or JD or BVille running Orange Crush. Albany Power is large numbers of Nisky kids supplemented by the rest of the Section2 kids. This is how Nisky builds their great depth which, imo, is the biggest reason for their dominance.

The BSpa program is starting to catch up more than anyone else I think. For BSpa it's starting at the youth level, they're running a solid youth program with real coaches and they have huge numbers. Hear Nisky will be dropping back to Class B next year.

 

[CHSLAX]

I think the Power reference is somewhat true. I know the 2020 team has 4 Nisky kids 2 of which are goalies and 1 is new to the team this year, but other schools have comparable numbers if not more. I don't think Power is the reason why Nisky is better than everyone else but it doesn't hurt. Academy, Shaker, Bethlehem, Shen, Columbia, Burnt Hills, all have their coaches on staff. I think BSpa's Coach Snow may work for Top Dog along with CBA -Albany's.

 

[PhatOrange]

I think the Power reference is somewhat true. I know the 2020 team has 4 Nisky kids 2 of which are goalies and 1 is new to the team this year, but other schools have comparable numbers if not more. I don't think Power is the reason why Nisky is better than everyone else but it doesn't hurt. Academy, Shaker, Bethlehem, Shen, Columbia, Burnt Hills, all have their coaches on staff. I think BSpa's Coach Snow may work for Top Dog along with CBA -Albany's.

I was sort of talking historically. The problem with the HS coaches involved is that it puts pressure on the kids to A) play club and B) play for a certain club team. If you're a Nisky kid or Shaker/Shen etc and you don't want to play for Power or don't want to play club at all how do you think that resonates ?

I personally think it's a slippery slope with the biases and conflict of interest and if I were the governing body of NYS sports I'd examine maybe outlawing HS coaches from running and coaching club teams.

Power posts their rosters online by the way - Home

Marr has some high school guys in TopDog (and yes CBA is one but they're a private school) , but many of his coaches are not affiliated. He's got local college coaches, college assistants and sometimes players. His son came up from Hopkins once and coached a team.

 

[CHSLAX]

Don't disagree. I am loosely affiliated with a local HS team and of the players playing club it is about half and half for Top Dog and Power. Interestingly several Nisky kids play Sweetlax. They usually play both but a few kids are only doing Sweetlax this year. From what I have seen Ferris has stuck with Power - i was hoping to watch him play this weekend at the Big 4 Champions League but word has it he isn't going.

 

[PhatOrange]

Don't disagree. I am loosely affiliated with a local HS team and of the players playing club it is about half and half for Top Dog and Power. Interestingly several Nisky kids play Sweetlax. They usually play both but a few kids are only doing Sweetlax this year. From what I have seen Ferris has stuck with Power - i was hoping to watch him play this weekend at the Big 4 Champions League but word has it he isn't going.

just curious...how do the Nisky kids travel for Sweetlax practices? I know of another Section2 kid who plays for 3d New England.

 

[ohmilax34]

 

[ohmilax34]

Honest questions:
Of all attackmen committed to SU now including HS seniors graduating this June liek Wood, Donnelly, etc., is this the best highlight film of all of them?

Who was the last SU attackman with a highlight film this good?

 

[DoctahLexus]

Honest questions:
Of all attackmen committed to SU now including HS seniors graduating this June liek Wood, Donnelly, etc., is this the best highlight film of all of them?

Who was the last SU attackman with a highlight film this good?

The best part about it is his size. I would say that Lars Swenson's short highlight tape looks equally impressive at times, but he may be a little undersized. This guy looks like he is big enough to still be able to pull off some of these moves against the consistently bigger and stronger close d he will face when playing for us. Anyone know how his height/weight? Looks like he is somewhere around 6'2.

 

[CHSLAX]

Ferris has a lot of length and is definitely in that 6'2" range. Ambidextrous.

A small group of local kids have played Sweetlax and 3D. To be honest I have always wondered how and why they do it. 3d New England isn't quite as far and their practices are less frequent once the season starts. 3D does a weekend long training camp usually. Those teams are generally significantly more expensive as well. 3d could top $3k if you play in everything. They play in better tournaments and get a little more exposure but I can't imagine it is as fun.

Power misses the local lefty that went to play for 3D NE. A nice player.

 

[ohmilax34]

The best part about it is his size. I would say that Lars Swenson's short highlight tape looks equally impressive at times, but he may be a little undersized. This guy looks like he is big enough to still be able to pull off some of these moves against the consistently bigger and stronger close d he will face when playing for us. Anyone know how his height/weight? Looks like he is somewhere around 6'2.

My guess is about 6'1", but he seems to play bigger. And CHSLAX mentions ambidextrous, which really jumped out to me in the video. There are plays where you would swear he was a lefty, and others where he looks righty.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Eagles' star soared with best

 

[Faegan]

I was sort of talking historically. The problem with the HS coaches involved is that it puts pressure on the kids to A) play club and B) play for a certain club team. If you're a Nisky kid or Shaker/Shen etc and you don't want to play for Power or don't want to play club at all how do you think that resonates ?

I personally think it's a slippery slope with the biases and conflict of interest and if I were the governing body of NYS sports I'd examine maybe outlawing HS coaches from running and coaching club teams.

Power posts their rosters online by the way - Home

Marr has some high school guys in TopDog (and yes CBA is one but they're a private school) , but many of his coaches are not affiliated. He's got local college coaches, college assistants and sometimes players. His son came up from Hopkins once and coached a team.

So busy lately, but this has turned into a great thread. PhatOrange, you make a great point about HS coaches being affiliated with club. It's definitely something that comes up time and again. Lots of potential conflicts. I know of places where coaches are head HS coaches, own or are major players in big clubs AND have their kids on rosters. The conflicts are insane. I know several coaches that left HS jobs just to focus on club because of all the hassles.

Lastly, I think it would be in the best interest of kids to separate HS from club for coaches. One of the benefits of making schools wait until junior year for contact is that HS coaches have more exposure to kids before they are committing. To me, this creates two camps to potentially push for a kid to get recruited, rather than just the club coaches as was the case before the new rule (at least for top talent).

 

[Whitey23]

So busy lately, but this has turned into a great thread. PhatOrange, you make a great point about HS coaches being affiliated with club. It's definitely something that comes up time and again. Lots of potential conflicts. I know of places where coaches are head HS coaches, own or are major players in big clubs AND have their kids on rosters. The conflicts are insane. I know several coaches that left HS jobs just to focus on club because of all the hassles.

Lastly, I think it would be in the best interest of kids to separate HS from club for coaches. One of the benefits of making schools wait until junior year for contact is that HS coaches have more exposure to kids before they are committing. To me, this creates two camps to potentially push for a kid to get recruited, rather than just the club coaches as was the case before the new rule (at least for top talent).

Here in CT all the clubs, boys and girls, are run by HS coaches and It’s a big supplement to their income. It definitely gives off the vibe that it’s pay to play .

 

[Orangelax]

Here in CT all the clubs, boys and girls, are run by HS coaches and It’s a big supplement to their income. It definitely gives off the vibe that’s pay to play .

I think it’s that way in a lot of states. In N.C. I know that public schools don’t pay much to coach lacrosse. The guys that do coach just love the game; therefore, they also coach for a club.

 

[PhatOrange]

I like Ferris much more than I liked Quinn coming out of section2.

 

[Bspalax]

I am sure the club lax scene has issues in all areas. I have kids who play for Albany Power so I may be biased. The situation in Section 2 is unique, as their has really not been enough kids to have competition between programs. Albany Power has been the only consistent club in the area. United, Rogue and others have tried but failed to get a foothold. Top Dog has a loyal following and is run by college staff but is not as serious as Power (not intended to be a slight but the vibe is about summer fun). The practices at Power are great and really well run. The same coaches are consistently present. Lots of reps and IQ stuff. Recently, Albany Power has moved to playing in more competitive tournaments like the Big 4. Thus, if you want a serious club team it's Albany Power or hitting the road.

As for HS coaches, as previously pointed out, all the top local teams other than BSpa have hs coaches at Power so it's not just Nisky. I think this puts pressure on kids to play but on the flip side does benefit the kids who play - many of the section's best kids are on the same team, increasing competition and helping the kids improve. HS coaching certainly raises conflicts or the appearance of conflict of interest . However, as for numbers, Nisky always is well represented on Power teams but this only makes sense, as they have been the best team in the area for the last 25 years. Other teams are well represented as well, including Bspa, which has no coaches at power. Sure, it's a business but well run businesses should make money, including coaches that dedicate their time to the business.

At BSpa, there are town travel teams at all youth levels. These teams are heading out to Syracuse and down to Westchester to play and get better. This has carried over to the HS level, with a Town team active in Summer and Fall. This keeps the kids playing together and improving as a hs team, not just individually.

Nisky will be class b due to the cutoff change for class A to 1060 (as Nisky has 1057). In years past, they have opted to stay at Class A. I am not sure if any section 3 teams are affected by the change but think FM is on the bubble. I think Hilton and Webster Schroeder may be affected in Section 5.

 

[ForCuseSake]

I won't be surprised if high school sports don't exist (or significantly fewer teams exist) in 10-15 years as the youth club/travel sports epidemic continues.

I know a few elite soccer players (development academy talent) were frequently discouraged, and one even barred, from playing for their high school squad. Soccer leadership has flip flopped on this in recent years but I think it's metastasizing across other sports (organically and otherwise).

I can't think of a DI sport where coaches still scout/attend high school games for players. Most don't bother attending high school games (unless a commit or high value target is playing) and focus primarily on the club/travel tourney circuit.

I've also seen a bad trend in coaching that's driven by club proliferation. Many of the good coaches go where the money is (college, club, travel, etc.) and the folks left coaching school teams (modified, JV, Varsity) are not good coaches. I've seen this across multiple sports (soccer and lacrosse in particular).

Combine poor coaching, with douchey parents, and I can see school administrators saying, "It's not worth it."

Thanks for the interesting insight on Capital area club scene.

Apologies to Liam Ferris for hijacking his thread.

 

[PhatOrange]

I am sure the club lax scene has issues in all areas. I have kids who play for Albany Power so I may be biased. The situation in Section 2 is unique, as their has really not been enough kids to have competition between programs. Albany Power has been the only consistent club in the area. United, Rogue and others have tried but failed to get a foothold. Top Dog has a loyal following and is run by college staff but is not as serious as Power (not intended to be a slight but the vibe is about summer fun). The practices at Power are great and really well run. The same coaches are consistently present. Lots of reps and IQ stuff. Recently, Albany Power has moved to playing in more competitive tournaments like the Big 4. Thus, if you want a serious club team it's Albany Power or hitting the road.

As for HS coaches, as previously pointed out, all the top local teams other than BSpa have hs coaches at Power so it's not just Nisky. I think this puts pressure on kids to play but on the flip side does benefit the kids who play - many of the section's best kids are on the same team, increasing competition and helping the kids improve. HS coaching certainly raises conflicts or the appearance of conflict of interest . However, as for numbers, Nisky always is well represented on Power teams but this only makes sense, as they have been the best team in the area for the last 25 years. Other teams are well represented as well, including Bspa, which has no coaches at power. Sure, it's a business but well run businesses should make money, including coaches that dedicate their time to the business.

At BSpa, there are town travel teams at all youth levels. These teams are heading out to Syracuse and down to Westchester to play and get better. This has carried over to the HS level, with a Town team active in Summer and Fall. This keeps the kids playing together and improving as a hs team, not just individually.

Nisky will be class b due to the cutoff change for class A to 1060 (as Nisky has 1057). In years past, they have opted to stay at Class A. I am not sure if any section 3 teams are affected by the change but think FM is on the bubble. I think Hilton and Webster Schroeder may be affected in Section 5.

I've been to both. I think your 'if you want a serious club team it's Albany Power' is a little biased. The practices are run the same, high level with good coaching. AP probably has more positional instruction and theory which is good. I'd say TD is only laid back in vibe because it's not win at all costs. Parent vibe is way different to. But really the vibe of both programs mimics their leaders. Marr is laid back, Vorgang is intense. It's my opinion that one will not get you anymore ahead than the other. Like everything else it's what you put into it. Good kids will get noticed no matter what. And really if you want to get seen, it's showcases and prospect camps, not tournaments.

Both orgs play the same tournaments though, the only difference is that Power takes two teams to the Big4.

United morphed into TopDog. Marr took over United Albany from Carcaterra and changed the name to TopDog. Rogue still does winter skills clinics but the owner/operator is a State Trooper and gave up the club business because of time. It's not that they folded for a lack of kids or interest. FCA sniffed around to start an Albany chapter and didn't. But you're right, there's not enough players (or parents committed to travel), but a big often overlooked aspects is that there's not enough quality coaches to support more clubs. Not like in Syracuse.

 

[ivorytower]

It's amazing the amount of recruits we land due to some sort of legacy connection. Someone on the staff has a serious talent with playing the legacy card when trying to draw kids in. Anyways this guy seems promising with good size and some impressive off-ball play.

Have to assume that the legacy parent or relative enjoyed attending Syracuse and that the good experience went beyond the field. If not, they likely wouldn't have their kid attending given other recruitments.. Think it speaks well of the university as a whole in addition to the program.

 

[sholokov2]

Have to assume that the legacy parent or relative enjoyed attending Syracuse and that the good experience went beyond the field. If not, they likely wouldn't have their kid attending given other recruitments.. Think it speaks well of the university as a whole in addition to the program.

Why is this stuff of interest. I am rarely bored on this forum, but hey I can't slog through any more of this. What happened to Ferris?

 

[ohmilax34]

Why is this stuff of interest. I am rarely bored on this forum, but hey I can't slog through any more of this. What happened to Ferris?

Actually Sholo, you and I have discussed this a little bit. When you ask what the coaches are looking for in recruits, I mention that they want kids who REALLY want to play for Syracuse. That usually means the parents can afford it and the kids is going to be really happy there and work hard. Those seem like all really important things when building a team. I think the discussion about club/HS lacrosse politics is a little interesting, because I may find myself in that situation in the future.

However, I posed the question earlier about what everyone thought about Ferris' junior year highlights, and I was specifically thinking about you, because I know you watch those with a skeptical eye. I can't find full games from his high school team, so the highlights are the best we have. So, please watch them and respond with your opinion to continue the discussion about Ferris.