NFL finds it probable Pats deflated balls
- Thread starter Toga
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The guy is Buffalo Bills fan who has resorted to pre-2004 Red Sox fan hatred of the New York Yankees. The Bills are 3-21 in the last 24 games with the Pats one of those 3 coming in the last wee last year and hating the Pats is all you have when your team sucks.
OttoinGrotto
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Don't underestimate Goodell.
Cusefan0307
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The NFL could of stopped this before it even happened, but THEY wanted this to come out in the offseason. We are in the middle of one of the best NBA playoffs we have had in a while and this leaks during the middle of it the Tuesday after the draft. Nobody is talking about the NBA today. I wouldn't put it past these guys to make a cash grab, because they certainly are dominating the sports world with this. In the NFL Brady/pats have become the most dominant hated player/team in all of sports, and the NFL will just use that to their advantage.
Cusefan0307
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You're lucky they didn't hire Oliver Luck to run the investigation. Then the Pats record last year would of been 0-4. I Wonder if Goodell hits the pats with the good old "lack of institutional control" and they are forced to give up draft picks.
There is nothing more to this than a franchise that has been caught cheating now 2.5 times by the NFL
No fan butt-hurt
No whatever.
There is big money involved in this game now...Kraft paid $150m and his franchise is now worth $2.5B, and it ain't cause they've sucked and the NFL has driven exposure with small-market franchises.
There is no other franchise to my knowledge that's been docked a draft pick for cheating during a game until this year (did the Falcons lose a pick? The Saints?)
I do not hate the Patriots...I do not approve of what I've deemed to be systemic advantages they've gained over the last 15 years due to a too-close relationship between Kraft & Goodell.
I then said two specific things this past post-season: 1) the Patriots broke the rules by using illegal formations against the Ravens and that rule would be changed during the off-season...the NFL has said that the substations were "legal", to which I continue to disagree with but I'm not caring enough to go back and rewatch the series again. BUT, I did say the late report and positioning by Vereeniging was illegal and it's subsequently been banned by the NFL in the off-season...2). I said that there was too much smoke on deflate gate for there not to be fire and 4 months later comes the report that, indeed, Patriots players and staff we're messing with footballs to create an unfair advantage, about which there are specific rules to guard against such behavior.
So, four months later, both criticisms have born out to be absolutely true, yet I'm just a Bills-fan-Patriots-hater. I'm afraid that just doesn't hold water...
No, I'd rather just see the game played honorably, and I can recognize BS when it's happening. Thank goodness for the Pats the other owners haven't authorized/demanded an independent review of the in-game officiating.
End of the day, Goodell will slap his friends on the wrist and fine Brady the equivalent of two Giselle picture-frMes, and Kraft will will laughing all the way to bank.
But that doesn't mean we can't hold them accountable on a fan forum of all places.
All that needs to be said: on the way to the Super Bowl, the Pats were down big to the Ravens and needed some "innovative formations" and "shoe-string catches on 3rd down in the cold" to pull out the win...Patriots fans should be gracious if other fans are a bit suspect.
No fan butt-hurt
No whatever.
There is big money involved in this game now...Kraft paid $150m and his franchise is now worth $2.5B, and it ain't cause they've sucked and the NFL has driven exposure with small-market franchises.
There is no other franchise to my knowledge that's been docked a draft pick for cheating during a game until this year (did the Falcons lose a pick? The Saints?)
I do not hate the Patriots...I do not approve of what I've deemed to be systemic advantages they've gained over the last 15 years due to a too-close relationship between Kraft & Goodell.
I then said two specific things this past post-season: 1) the Patriots broke the rules by using illegal formations against the Ravens and that rule would be changed during the off-season...the NFL has said that the substations were "legal", to which I continue to disagree with but I'm not caring enough to go back and rewatch the series again. BUT, I did say the late report and positioning by Vereeniging was illegal and it's subsequently been banned by the NFL in the off-season...2). I said that there was too much smoke on deflate gate for there not to be fire and 4 months later comes the report that, indeed, Patriots players and staff we're messing with footballs to create an unfair advantage, about which there are specific rules to guard against such behavior.
So, four months later, both criticisms have born out to be absolutely true, yet I'm just a Bills-fan-Patriots-hater. I'm afraid that just doesn't hold water...
No, I'd rather just see the game played honorably, and I can recognize BS when it's happening. Thank goodness for the Pats the other owners haven't authorized/demanded an independent review of the in-game officiating.
End of the day, Goodell will slap his friends on the wrist and fine Brady the equivalent of two Giselle picture-frMes, and Kraft will will laughing all the way to bank.
But that doesn't mean we can't hold them accountable on a fan forum of all places.
All that needs to be said: on the way to the Super Bowl, the Pats were down big to the Ravens and needed some "innovative formations" and "shoe-string catches on 3rd down in the cold" to pull out the win...Patriots fans should be gracious if other fans are a bit suspect.
Tobias Funke
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You are entitled to your opinion. But your obsession with the formations is getting insane. The patriots lined up in a legal formation and no flag was thrown period. It is up to the official to call if a player tries to switch legibility without leaving the game. The formation itself was 100 percent legal when it happened. Any reaction to the formation is an acknowledgement that the rule needed to be amended but they didn't break the rules. I assume that is the instance you are referring to regarding them getting caught cheating a half a time. In that you are flat out wrong
Curious of your opinion regarding syracuse violations and how it impacts your view of the program being honorable.
I would admit there is some circumstantial evidence damning on page 124-129. However, there is ZERO proof Brady told anyone to take a pin to a football and they did it. Thus, any objective factfinder and not GODell couldn't do more than just fine the guy. If this gets anything expect a huge union fight. Brady has the full support of the NFLPA for putting his name on the lawsuit against the NFL during the 2011 lockout.
Re: Syracuse Basketball I am able to compartmentalize violations that occur on the field/court of play and those that occur in the labyrinth of rules and regulations that the NCAA enforces on people. I played a D1 sport (not at SU) and have seen the nonsense first hand at different levels and so I'm somewhat forgiving of the recruiting/eligibility issues. Fab Melo, for instance, was never going to be a student wherever he went -- what the Syracuse AD did was not ethical nor appropriate but...
The organization is paying a fairly steep price for those transgressions, so there is "justice" after all in this case…not really comparable to the Patriots case where my entire point is there haven't been appropriate penalties other than a draft pick. Kraft is worth over $2B more, the risk/reward is very favorable there….
My "obsession" with the Patriots formation is not insane, in fact is very fact-oriented. I took 3 mins to understand the rules by Googling the rule book…understanding the pattern of eligibility from play-to-play mattered I looked at ESPN play-by-play, which took another, um, 38 seconds. It's funny, but if you want to be conspiratorial, MOST other plays that I've seen, including the third Patriots "Formation" play, were labeled as "Vereen reports as eligible"…BUT, the first TWO plays that were run that way had no such labeling on ESPN…Hmmm…
So, I got a free 7-day trial of NFL playback online, this took all-in about 7 mins, and forwarded to the series in question…in MY rewatch of the series, the FIRST TWO formation plays were one after the other, but as I said then you can't tell perfectly because the changes aren't mentioned on the broadcast and you're forced to watch the formations unfold…in MY viewing, again, the plays were back-to-back, so I thought maybe the NFL asked ESPN to take down the description of players reporting eligibility on the play-by-play because it was a give-away. The Boston paper-guy refuted my notions (rather specifically, I'd add) by saying the players subbed in and out…but that's not what I saw and I believe the reporters are just reporting what they were told…
Not a big deal in the end…this issue is not the institutional cheating we're talking about but should have been flagged on at least the late report, different universes. And I might be wrong about the series of plays…but at the end of it, it's definitely not INSANE to think there's favoritism in big-money business or sports.
I am extremely hopeful that all this clamor will put the Patriots under a microscope and we'll get a level playing field this year…if a lineman hits Brady it won't automatically be a penalty…if Jerry Hughes is excited his teammate made a big sack on 3rd down and smacks his own player on the head to celebrate it won't be a drive-extending 15-yeard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty that will written about on ESPN the next day…
But, the Patriots should definitely have lost draft picks last week, this whole thing should not have taken 4 months.
Cheers…psyched about Mr. Washington's commitment
Pretty interesting developments here this AM...upon reflection, this is even worse than it seemed yesterday
NYTimes articles are out (THREE of them!) and were pretty savage in their attacks.
Brady should face some pretty severe punishment...what do you do to a guy who knowlingly and strategically violated the rules...then tried to cover it up with texts and phone calls, WHILE he was then lying about the whole incident a couple days later.
Could come into play for next season, the Bills play them Week 2...if there was a just system here no way Brady would be playing by then.
I don't believe there's much of an over-reaction here at all...there's a reason the NFL has a rule here, it affects the competitive balance of the game.
Of course the argument that everyone does it has been made, but that probably won't affect what should be the outcome. I'll say Brady gets a 4-game suspension (or should, anyway).
NYTimes articles are out (THREE of them!) and were pretty savage in their attacks.
Brady should face some pretty severe punishment...what do you do to a guy who knowlingly and strategically violated the rules...then tried to cover it up with texts and phone calls, WHILE he was then lying about the whole incident a couple days later.
Could come into play for next season, the Bills play them Week 2...if there was a just system here no way Brady would be playing by then.
I don't believe there's much of an over-reaction here at all...there's a reason the NFL has a rule here, it affects the competitive balance of the game.
Of course the argument that everyone does it has been made, but that probably won't affect what should be the outcome. I'll say Brady gets a 4-game suspension (or should, anyway).
KaiserUEO
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no (red)skin in this game, for the GIANTS beat the pats whenever it counts.
that said, Brady is CLEARLY not only a CHEATER...but now also a LIAR.
i expect either an 8 game suspension, knocked down to 6, likely 4...or a 4 game one knocked down to 2, depending on the (ahem) balls of 345 Park Ave.
regardless, hes sitting out a few games, but will be back on the field when they lose to the Giants in November.
la-la-la-la-looz-ah
that said, Brady is CLEARLY not only a CHEATER...but now also a LIAR.
i expect either an 8 game suspension, knocked down to 6, likely 4...or a 4 game one knocked down to 2, depending on the (ahem) balls of 345 Park Ave.
regardless, hes sitting out a few games, but will be back on the field when they lose to the Giants in November.
la-la-la-la-looz-ah
Ghost
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Eh, if Brady did nothing, just release your texts. Clear it up. The evidence is what it is (and definitely not definitive proof), but whatever, everyone knows what happened. Suspend him just for being stupid and saying stuff like, "Golly gee, I don't even notice balls are inflated. I just grip me a football." Smile.
He's ARod, but for some reason people like him.
He's ARod, but for some reason people like him.
Toga
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Really? Anytime his name has come up around me - uniformly, everyone hates him.
Ghost
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Really? I feel like people like him Jeter style.
Toga
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IDK -I think it's closer to - I'd pay good money just to smack him in the face one time.
Ghost said:
See, I think the American people are learning something here...this language used by the report to conclude guilt is NOT some throwaway language...it's what you conclude when the burden of proof is not 100% but rather "greater than 50%"
Obviously there are lawyers on here more knowledgable than I, but this outcome is not a joke, they're saying Brady did it according to the level of proof we're forced to reach to make a conclusion.
For instance, this is the same level of proof that could get your son (or daughter) kicked out of school if he (or she) were accused of sexual assault on campus.
This whole thing is really dumb, even as a Bills fan I would have been fine if Brady had come clean...now we're left wondering what ELSE do these guys do to tip the odds in their favor.
But the Patriots defenders (if there actually are anymore on this issue) are misreading the language in the report as an "out" when it's really not.
I bet the investigators were looking to check the boxes on this but we're stunned to find text messages about a guy literally called "the Deflator"
I mean you can't make it up
Cusefan0307
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Imagine if Bud Selig ever ran a sting operation because the Red Sox complained that Derek Jeter's glove might be too big. This whole thing is silly. Had literally no affect on any game. As an NFL-Non Patriots fan, I think a lot of people are jealous and sick of getting their but kicked for the past 15 years, especially Colts, Bills, and Jet's fans.
The Patriot/Brady haters wanting Brady suspended because they compare him to A-Rod come off worse than the defenders. This is like going 62 in a 55. I think there's a double standard here. If it was any other QB it wouldn't even be a big deal. Heck if it was Peyton Manning half the media would be saying how smart he is. TheNFL made it a big deal cause they wanted to. It's driving ratings. We are sucked in. They have their version of Darth Vader. Just like everyone hates Kentucky and Cal, everyone can now watch the Patriots and hate Brady/Belichick the same.
The Patriot/Brady haters wanting Brady suspended because they compare him to A-Rod come off worse than the defenders. This is like going 62 in a 55. I think there's a double standard here. If it was any other QB it wouldn't even be a big deal. Heck if it was Peyton Manning half the media would be saying how smart he is. TheNFL made it a big deal cause they wanted to. It's driving ratings. We are sucked in. They have their version of Darth Vader. Just like everyone hates Kentucky and Cal, everyone can now watch the Patriots and hate Brady/Belichick the same.
I mean people are completely overlooking the fact the NFL inspected 4 Colts balls at halftime and 3 of them were under the legal limit. That doesn't matter because the Pats balls were under the limit and that is all that matters. The ref Walt Anderson said he checked pressures pre-game and never wrote down any details.
This is making a mountain out of a molehill. Peyton Manning was injured during the playoffs and was never on the injury report if the Pats did that they should be suspended for life. Its okay though because its Denver.
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