Noel

[EastCoast2]

I think with all the services out there the identification of the cream of the crop does not look difficult. The A Davis and N Noels of the world are pretty common knowledge.

Listen to this fellas, this is so true. Calipari isn't a great recruiter, he's a great salesman. He couldn't identify talent if it smacked him across the face and called him squid. Any wonder why he waited until the last minute to recruit Davis? SU, OSU, and even UNC were on him for months before UK. It's so easy to look up recruiting rankings, make a list of the top 25 players in the country, then offer all of them and hope to land 5. He lets other coaches identify top players, then steals them.

He stole:
Davis from SU/OSU
Teague from UL
Jones from UW
Kanter from UW

 

[Upstate]

Listen to this fellas, this is so true. Calipari isn't a great recruiter, he's a great salesman. He couldn't identify talent if it smacked him across the face and called him squid. Any wonder why he waited until the last minute to recruit Davis? SU, OSU, and even UNC were on him for months before UK. It's so easy to look up recruiting rankings, make a list of the top 25 players in the country, then offer all of them and hope to land 5. He lets other coaches identify top players, then steals them.

He stole:
Davis from SU/OSU
Teague from UL
Jones from UW
Kanter from UW

Agree, a great "recruiter" can get kids to go to a school that really doesn't have much of anything special about it, Kentucky can sell the world to a recruit right now and that's all Cal needs to do.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

this has been exactly my point all along.

As I was writing my post I did see your point. There is still big value in identifying and securing those players that will grow, develop, and mature into starters. Outside of UK, every team needs to do some of that.

And it does look like they had it scouted out in MCWs case but his development has gone ahead of schedule. But by recognizing it early the staff had the upper hand in bringing him in. And the dividends for that may not have stopped with just him.

I think Cooney will fit this bill and also Grant. I think by the junior years those two will be forces. And the defined roles for those two are pretty clear - Rautin/Gmac ish, and any of the long line of athletic forwards like Hak and even KJo.

It's starting to look like with the upward tick in recruiting we are now able to get those a little higher on the scale even for the expected year or two incubation period. I think Cooney is a more obvious choice than what Rautins had been. That Grant is a little higher rated than Hak or KJo. Yet the path they are schedulted to take is similar - wait a year or two and your time will come.

 

[DownTheField]

Didn't we offer Davis when he was still a big guard and his only other offer was some mid major?

I think with all the services out there the identification of the cream of the crop does not look difficult. The A Davis and N Noels of the world are pretty common knowledge. And you don't turn your nose up at them because they might not fit in your system. You adapt your system to fit them, and I think JB does a great job of that.

Recruiting the 4 year players, the ones who will not start right away, is an undervalued skill. Extrapolating the growth, attitude, and maturation of a player is tough to do, but can pay big dividends if done correctly. In these instances I think judging how they fit may come into play. And this fit is as much mental as physical. These players are going to have to work and perfect their skills to fit the role in front of them. It's great to see these players evolve.

 

[jdubs30]

I can confirm about Kevin Jones from speaking to one of his HS teammates at a summer event at Philly U. a few years ago. Apparently, he camped at SU and really wanted to come to SU for a long time. Wouldn't have mind having him next to Kris Jo at Forward this year instead of using the scholie on Mookie.

I played against KJ several times in AAU; we never really talked about recruiting/college that much, but it always seemed like SU was his choice when it was brought up; one of the funniest dudes I've ever met though. Him and Mookie played for the Westchester Hawks.

 

[armory]

Kevin Jones is a very unorthodox player. I don't blame anyone for not expecting the kind of career he has had.

 

[bnoro]

I played against KJ several times in AAU; we never really talked about recruiting/college that much, but it always seemed like SU was his choice when it was brought up; one of the funniest dudes I've ever met though. Him and Mookie played for the Westchester Hawks.

Mookie dunked over one of my friends in AAU ball.

 

[jdubs30]

Mookie dunked over one of my friends in AAU ball.

Mookie was better than KJ back then.

 

[Upstate]

Mook could have landed at Kansas if he wanted to. Crazy to imagine.

 

[pfister1]

Listen to this fellas, this is so true. Calipari isn't a great recruiter, he's a great salesman. He couldn't identify talent if it smacked him across the face and called him squid. Any wonder why he waited until the last minute to recruit Davis? SU, OSU, and even UNC were on him for months before UK. It's so easy to look up recruiting rankings, make a list of the top 25 players in the country, then offer all of them and hope to land 5. He lets other coaches identify top players, then steals them.

He stole:
Davis from SU/OSU
Teague from UL
Jones from UW
Kanter from UW

You really think Calipari can't identify talent? He doesn't need to take risks on guys and see if they will develop. The biggest reason schools do that is it is important to get involved with a kid early as that relationship built over time is often the key to getting the kid to come. Calipari on the other hand has been able to avoid having to make those early judgments because he can oftentimes jump in late and get a kid despite his late arrival on the scene.

 

[EastCoast2]

You really think Calipari can't identify talent? He doesn't need to take risks on guys and see if they will develop. The biggest reason schools do that is it is important to get involved with a kid early as that relationship built over time is often the key to getting the kid to come. Calipari on the other hand has been able to avoid having to make those early judgments because he can oftentimes jump in late and get a kid despite his late arrival on the scene.

My point was you will never see Calipari get a guy like MCW - a 3 star recruit who signs and then blows up to a 5 star. Was it coaching skill that hit Calipari in the head and told him to recruit Anthony Davis? He didn't recruit him until he was a consensus top 5 player in the nation.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

My point was you will never see Calipari get a guy like MCW - a 3 star recruit who signs and then blows up to a 5 star. Was it coaching skill that hit Calipari in the head and told him to recruit Anthony Davis? He didn't recruit him until he was a consensus top 5 player in the nation.

Yeah, that Camby kid and the two guards he had at UMASS ( I think Padilla was one of them ) were household names before they got there.
The truth is, because of where he is and who is, he can swoop in late and grab guys.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk

 

[EastCoast2]

Yeah, that Camby kid and the two guards he had at UMASS ( I think Padilla was one of them ) were household names before they got there.
The truth is, because of where he is and who is, he can swoop in late and grab guys.

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How many NBA guys did he develop while at UMass

 

[EastCoast2]

Yeah, that Camby kid and the two guards he had at UMASS ( I think Padilla was one of them ) were household names before they got there.
The truth is, because of where he is and who is, he can swoop in late and grab guys.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk

To build off your comment, this about Marcus Camby is HS: he wasn't exactly a diamond in the rough

In his senior season, Camby averaged 27 points, 11 rebounds, 8 blocks and 8 assists, en route to a 27-0 record and state title. He was named Gatorade's Connecticut Player of the Year.[3]

 

[Francis03]

Didn't we offer Davis when he was still a big guard and his only other offer was some mid major?

He had already grown to 6'10 by the time when he was offered. SU and Memphis were the first ones to watch him and get involved in the recruitment before he blew up.

 

[pfister1]

How many NBA guys did he develop while at UMass

Question was about evaluating potential college players, not developing NBA talent.

 

[EastCoast2]

Okay, name me one small time recruit that made it big time

 

[jdubs30]

Okay, name me one small time recruit that made it big time

In general, or from Cal's tree?

If general, there's a ton.

 

[EastCoast2]

In general, or from Cal's tree?

If general, there's a ton.

That Cal recruited

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

That Cal recruited

If he can get great players, why settle for good ones? But off the top of my head the big white kid last year wasn't a real hot prospect. He's in the NBA.
Remember, Jim preferred Julius Hodge over Hak and Boo Harvey over Sherm. Sometime you get lucky.

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[Upstate]

Does anyone think that landing Noel would be an incentive for DW to stay at SU? I doubt it, but I wonder if he would consider it more so, knowing they could be one of the best teams of the last 5-10 years if everyone (save melo) that can come back, comes back next year.

 

[edowd26]

If he can get great players, why settle for good ones? But off the top of my head the big white kid last year wasn't a real hot prospect. He's in the NBA.
Remember, Jim preferred Julius Hodge over Hak and Boo Harvey over Sherm. Sometime you get lucky.

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Harrelson was not his recruit it was Billy G's.

 

[mark79]

Depends on what happens this year to an extent but I think the train has probably left the station...

But to quote dumb and dumber "so
you're telling me there's a chance!"

 

[EastCoast2]

Does anyone think that landing Noel would be an incentive for DW to stay at SU? I doubt it, but I wonder if he would consider it more so, knowing they could be one of the best teams of the last 5-10 years if everyone (save melo) that can come back, comes back next year.

Possibly. Question is if he (DW) is projected to go mid first round, can his stock get much higher? Maybe a few slots, but would it be worth it?

 

[pfister1]

Okay, name me one small time recruit that made it big time

No idea what the recruiting rankings were like for these guys, but I don't imagine Harper Williams and Lou Roe were 5 star recruits. They did each end up winning an A-10 player of the year award.

Camby had a big senior year as a High Schooler, but obviously his recruitment to UMass would have started long before that or he likely would have ended up at a much higher profile school.

How about Antonio Burks at Memphis, he was a JUCO transfer and recruited walk-on that went on to win Conf-USA POY as a senior.

Not being a fan of UMass, UK or Memphis it is really difficult to recite the names of Cal's recruits, much less try to differentiate between those that were highly rated and those that were not. I find it hard to remember how highly rated the Cuse non-McD's recruits were rated more than 2 or 3 years after they've left.

But, I think it is incredible to suggest that he is unable to identify talented players unless the recruiting services point them out for him.....but maybe he is a complete idiot when it comes to talent evaluation.