Northeast football offenses suck

[tipphill]

fwiw i don't blame the weather for northeast offense being terrible. i blame coaches and fans

i am a fan, and will confidently say that i have never caught a pass, scored a touchdown or ran the ball for a first down in any game i have attended

 

[SmilinBob]

My best guess is the high school talent/commitment to football in the areas these schools are in. Add to that where does the elite HS talent go in the northeast? Not the only reason as there is no silver bullet answer but a big factor.

 

[javadoc]

It's just so funny. On the one hand everyone recognizes that we need some better talent, especially at QB. On the other hand, we resist our program being the type that can tell kids "Son, if you come here you're going to throw the ball 50 times a game in the cozy conditions of a Dome. Did I mention that we're the only P5 school that can say that? You're going to throw the ball so much you're going to need to install an ice machine in your dorm room."

I think a lot of really good QBs would respond to that.

Unless there are 50 other schools saying the same thing. Not the Dome part, of course, but that can be counterbalanced by claims of warmer conditions, better fan support, etc.

 

[Millhouse]

My best guess is the high school talent/commitment to football in the areas these schools are in. Add to that where does the elite HS talent go in the northeast? Not the only reason as there is no silver bullet answer but a big factor.

I'm too roundabout in this thread. Teams are good when their QBs are efficient. For people who only want to look at Syracuse, go year by year here. 2001 is the only good year without good efficiency. RJ Anderson was middle of the pack in rating.

Some good teams run a lot, some pass a lot but almost all good teams have efficiency.

Northeast high school quarterbacks are not as far along for various reasons (weather, high school coaching). I think balanced offenses are great but I prioritize efficient passers. I think in order to entice better qbs from far away to come to Syracuse, we need to offer them more throws. It might hurt our balance but it's worth it. We once had incredibly efficient passers while being run first but that was because so many programs were stupid and didn't want black quarterbacks. Good for Mac P and D. But that ship has sailed.

Hurry up offenses are a way to remain balanced yet still give everyone enough runs, throws and catches. But since we're competing with so many other hurry up schools, we should still tilt toward passing.

I haven't even mentioned the dome yet.

The average qb rating of a top 10 team is 156. 11-20 has an avg rating of 142 which is still ok with big outliers in Wisconsin and Missouri.

80% of the AP top 20 has a passer rating above 140.

 

[Millhouse]

Unless there are 50 other schools saying the same thing. Not the Dome part, of course, but that can be counterbalanced by claims of warmer conditions, better fan support, etc.

getting the 50th best QB would be a big upgrade

 

[SmilinBob]

I'm too roundabout in this thread. Teams are good when their QBs are efficient. For people who only want to look at Syracuse, go year by year here. 2001 is the only good year without good efficiency. RJ Anderson was middle of the pack in rating. Some teams run a lot, some pass a lot but they all have efficiency.

Northeast high school quarterbacks are not as far along for various reasons (weather, high school coaching). I think balanced offenses are great but I prioritize efficient passers. I think in order to entice better qbs from far away to come to Syracuse, we need to offer them more throws. It might hurt our balance but it's worth it. We once had incredibly efficient passers while being run first but that was because so many programs were stupid and didn't want black quarterbacks. Good for Mac P and D. But that ship has sailed.

Hurry up offenses are a way to remain balanced yet still give everyone enough runs, throws and catches. But since we're competing with so many other hurry up schools, we should still tilt toward passing.

I haven't even mentioned the dome yet.

The average qb rating of a top 10 team is 156. 11-20 has an avg rating of 142 which is still ok with big outliers in Wisconsin and Missouri.

80% of the AP top 20 has a passer rating above 140.

My point is look where the the top players in the northeast go and along those lines when is the last time a northeastern school got a 4 to 5 star Florida or the like star from the south? Speed and talent go elsewhere.

 

[Millhouse]

My point is look where the the top players in the northeast go and along those lines when is the last time a northeastern school got a 4 to 5 star Florida or the like star from the south? Speed and talent go elsewhere.

who are the good northeastern QBs?

i would take 3 star florida qbs. edouard fits the bill. mcdonald didn't know what he was doing but his general blueprint was sound

 

[SmilinBob]

who are the good northeastern QBs?

i would take 3 star florida qbs. edouard fits the bill. mcdonald didn't know what he was doing but his general blueprint was sound

I didn't say there were any and if and when there are they have choices and many don't include the northeastern schools. Look at Miami, they have a freshman California qb because he knows he can have multiple 4.4 speed guys to throw to.

McDonald did have the right idea, I agree and we also agree he didn't have all the tools or knowledge to implement it.

 

[Millhouse]

I didn't say there were any and if and when there are they have choices and many don't include the northeastern schools. Look at Miami, they have a freshman California qb because he knows he can have multiple 4.4 speed guys to throw to.

McDonald did have the right idea, I agree and we also agree he didn't have all the tools or knowledge to implement it.

gotcha thanks

if there are any northeast qbs that are good that don't go to northeastern schools, i think we should make it worth their while to stay.

i don't want to resign ourselves to the developmental one year out of 4 stuff.

 

[SmilinBob]

gotcha thanks

if there are any northeast qbs that are good that don't go to northeastern schools, i think we should make it worth their while to stay.

i don't want to resign ourselves to the developmental one year out of 4 stuff.

My hope is after Hunt there will be this continued development that you're asking for.

 

[Chip]

Millhouse, any interesting stats on Gary Crowton? He kind of fell off the radar after that one year with Fridge at Maryland (lame duck season). EDIT: That one year was Edsall's first year, so not sure what happened there.

Looks like he's back hanging out in Utah, Southern Utah that is.

His name had popped up at one time during the GRob death march, I recall JerseyOrange being in favor. That's the type of OC I'd be looking for if I were Shafer.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm too roundabout in this thread. Teams are good when their QBs are efficient. For people who only want to look at Syracuse, go year by year here. 2001 is the only good year without good efficiency. RJ Anderson was middle of the pack in rating. Some teams run a lot, some pass a lot but they all have efficiency.

Northeast high school quarterbacks are not as far along for various reasons (weather, high school coaching). I think balanced offenses are great but I prioritize efficient passers. I think in order to entice better qbs from far away to come to Syracuse, we need to offer them more throws. It might hurt our balance but it's worth it. We once had incredibly efficient passers while being run first but that was because so many programs were stupid and didn't want black quarterbacks. Good for Mac P and D. But that ship has sailed.

Hurry up offenses are a way to remain balanced yet still give everyone enough runs, throws and catches. But since we're competing with so many other hurry up schools, we should still tilt toward passing.

I haven't even mentioned the dome yet.

The average qb rating of a top 10 team is 156. 11-20 has an avg rating of 142 which is still ok with big outliers in Wisconsin and Missouri.

80% of the AP top 20 has a passer rating above 140.

I agree with all of this, and would add that I don't think it's enough for the staff to strive for balance, or say we can have whatever system so long as it scores enough for our defense. I think we need a commitment to passing and an identity passing because coaches will tend to balance to the run anyway (Leach the exception here). Even coaches that love to pass, have the talent to pass, and execute pass plays well will run the ball x number of times and will take the run if the defense is giving that too them. I want the coaches to commit publicly to putting their QBs in the school record book and telling QB recruits that their goal is to try and get their arm to fall off. When you add the Dome, and the fact that what we're doing would be unique for our geography, I think you have a compelling product for recruits and fans.

Right now, the coaches are busting their humps recruiting, but I think it can be easier. The fans for so long have seen a really boring football product, causing a lot of them to either drop off or get used to and accept boring football.

I mean geez, the one time we started putting the ball in the air and running hurry up we were losing games to start the season but everybody was excited because we knew we would always have a puncher's chance, then we saw we could even win a game like Mizzou.

Let's at least try to use our advantages for once. We actually are unique. You'd never know it by our approach the past 15 years though.

 

[Millhouse]

Millhouse, any interesting stats on Gary Crowton? He kind of fell off the radar after that one year with Fridge at Maryland (lame duck season). EDIT: That one year was Edsall's first year, so not sure what happened there.

Looks like he's back hanging out in Utah, Southern Utah that is.

His name had popped up at one time during the GRob death march, I recall JerseyOrange being in favor. That's the type of OC I'd be looking for if I were Shafer.

i don't know how he ended up in winnepeg. there must be something off about him

LSU ended bad, maryland was ho hum,

i suspect he's a terrible play caller who gets too cute. hard thing to measure but he must be a little out there

 

[SWC75]

Don McPherson was interviewed on Bud and the Manchild about a week ago. He was asked what kind of offense we should have. He said we needed to run the ball because we play in the northeast and you've got to run the ball in bad weather. I wondered if anyone had told Donnie that we're in the ACC now and our rivals were mostly southern teams. Then I remembered that our schedule concluded with games at Pittsburgh and at Boston College, who were also our last two opponents last season. Will they be our last two opponents every year?

That said, that's not an excuse for trying to get a revved up passing attack here. Half our games will still be in the Dome and most of our road games will be in the south and the road games at Pitt and BC will be once ever two years. And the weather doesn't really become a factor until November anyway. I've long felt that from the first time an SU coach walked into the new Dome they should have seen it as a perfect place to run a BYU, Houston,Texas Tech, Oregon, Baylor type of attack. (And yes there are differences in those schemes and some of them run the ball very well after setting it up with the pass).

And that said, I still think you have to use a scheme that will allow you to win with the talent you've got so you can recruit the players you want to run the scheme you want, (as we did in the 80's), rather than losing because you imposed a scheme your talent can't run on them and then somehow try to recruit top talent to a losing program.

And that said, I'm still excited about Alin Edouard showing up in January because I thin he might be the guy that would let us start running the kind of an offense we'd all like to see. If he is, things could turn around here very quickly.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm skeptical of Lester but here's the devils advocate argument for him in terms of QB efficiency. He was the 11th ranked qb in the country as a sr. in 2005 at WMU, tim hiller had a 178 rating. in 2006 he gets a pass because Cubit started his son. (Boo Cubit)

2011 Elmhurst was ok 143 rating for furco
2012 meh 136

 

[Chip]

Don McPherson was interviewed on Bud and the Manchild about a week ago. He was asked what kind of offense we should have. He said we needed to run the ball because we play in the northeast and you've got to run the ball in bad weather. I wondered if anyone had told Donnie that we're in the ACC now and our rivals were mostly southern teams. Then I remembered that our schedule concluded with games at Pittsburgh and at Boston College, who were also our last two opponents last season. Will they be our last two opponents every year?

That's really a pretty terrible answer by McPherson. I'm not opposed to running the ball well, but that's about the last reason I'd give as to why it's important.

Did someone hand him hardnosed talking points, or was he on his own?

 

[Millhouse]

That's really a pretty terrible answer by McPherson. I'm not opposed to running the ball well, but that's about the last reason I'd give as to why it's important.

Did someone hand him hardnosed talking points, or was he on his own?

i wish my heroes never spoke out loud

 

[TheCusian]

Don McPherson was interviewed on Bud and the Manchild about a week ago. He was asked what kind of offense we should have. He said we needed to run the ball because we play in the northeast and you've got to run the ball in bad weather. I wondered if anyone had told Donnie that we're in the ACC now and our rivals were mostly southern teams. Then I remembered that our schedule concluded with games at Pittsburgh and at Boston College, who were also our last two opponents last season. Will they be our last two opponents every year? That said, that's not an excuse for trying to get a revved up passing attack here. Half our games will still be in the Dome and most of our road games will be in the south and the road games at Pitt and BC will be once ever two years. And the weather doesn't really become a factor until November anyway. I've long felt that from the first time an SU coach walked into the new Dome they should have seen it as a perfect place to run a BYU, Houston,Texas Tech, Oregon, Baylor type of attack. (And yes there are differences in those schemes and some of them run the ball very well after setting it up with the pass). And that said, I still think you have to use a scheme that will allow you to win with the talent you've got so you can recruit the players you want to run the scheme you want, (as we did in the 80's), rather than losing because you imposed a scheme your talent can't run on them and then somehow try to recruit top talent to a losing program. And that said, I'm still excited about Alin Edouard showing up in January because I thin he might be the guy that would let us start running the kind of an offense we'd all like to see. If he is, things could turn around here very quickly. YouTube Video

I think we're a competent OC and an average QB away from an 8 win season.

 

[Chip]

I think we're a competent OC and an average QB away from an 8 win season.

Then we should probably get started on that.

 

[TheCusian]

Then we should probably get started on that.

I'm on an island on this - but I think Lester is the guy. I don't know if our QB is on the roster .

 

[Chip]

I'm on an island on this - but I think Lester is the guy. I don't know if our QB is on the roster .

I'm not really opposed to Lester, I just think it's a risk. If I were Shafer, I might want to tap into Gross' budget and hire a more proven OC, if he realistically exists (i.e. would come here for an OC role). Or at least get the green light of how much $ I have to work with so I can start making some calls.

Hopefully Lester works out great.

 

[Chip]

i don't know how he ended up in winnepeg. there must be something off about him

LSU ended bad, maryland was ho hum,

i suspect he's a terrible play caller who gets too cute. hard thing to measure but he must be a little out there

Maybe, but could have just been bad fits. He's a guy with passing game success and developed some good QBs. LSU probably held him back (you have the best defense in the world, so just run the ball more, oh but the fans will hate you for it if we lose). And in Maryland, he accepts a job with Edsall, who always kept it fairly conservative on offense.

Maybe the man just needs a Dome.

 

[Millhouse]

Maybe, but could have just been bad fits. He's a guy with passing game success and developed some good QBs. LSU probably held him back (you have the best defense in the world, so just run the ball more, oh but the fans will hate you for it if we lose). And in Maryland, he accepts a job with Edsall, who always kept it fairly conservative on offense.

Maybe the man just needs a Dome.

i might be giving the coaching community too much credit but how does he end up in winnepeg? it doesn't make much sense to me which makes me wonder if there's something strange about him. gerg always lands on his feet, why is this guy sent to siberia?

i'd try it though, what the hell. beggars can't be choosers. if he doesn't work, go get someone else.

40th in FCS offense ypg
22nd ranked passer
83rd in scoring offense
113th in rushing

 

[RoysRunts]

If you can't run the Ball you can't win ........

 

[Millhouse]

If you can't run the Ball you can't win .....

the #1 team in the country is 105th in rushing yards per game

119th in rushing attempts