Northwestern AD Jim Phillips decries one-and-done culture ...

[Cowtown]

We all know?

Had me scratching my head over that one, also ... :noidea:

 

[SBU72]

That would be a rule established by the league or in the collective bargaining agreement with the professional players. Why does the NBA care whether a kid gets a degree?

I think if the NCAA would rescind the rule that makes players forfeit their eligibility upon entering the draft, there would be a whole lot of change for the good. Pair that with the NCAA tightening its belt a little bit with respect to the players it grants scholarships to and VOILA!

What I want to know is why does signing with a agent disqualify a kid from college sports. His "amateur" status shouldn't change even if some money exchanges hands. After all, colleges do compensate players. If the kid doesn't get drafted or like his spot, then he should be able to go back to school. Of course the biggest problem is once the kid announces he is going in the draft, how does a program handle his spot on the roster. The draft is so late compared to recruiting that can coaches afford to hold a scholarship open? Then there is the whole thing about how the players handle it. How does the returning player handle it if the coach brings in a 5* kid who is worthy of some of the returning players time. Of course if a HS sr enters the draft and then decides to go to college, these questions don't really apply.

 

[pfister1]

What I want to know is why does signing with a agent disqualify a kid from college sports. His "amateur" status shouldn't change even if some money exchanges hands. After all, colleges do compensate players. If the kid doesn't get drafted or like his spot, then he should be able to go back to school. Of course the biggest problem is once the kid announces he is going in the draft, how does a program handle his spot on the roster. The draft is so late compared to recruiting that can coaches afford to hold a scholarship open? Then there is the whole thing about how the players handle it. How does the returning player handle it if the coach brings in a 5* kid who is worthy of some of the returning players time. Of course if a HS sr enters the draft and then decides to go to college, these questions don't really apply.

This would be a huge issue for us while we are still operating under the reduced scholarship limits, but when you return to 13 I don't think it would be a problem all that often. We rarely have 11 rotation type guys on the roster, much less 13.

 

[SBU72]

This would be a huge issue for us while we are still operating under the reduced scholarship limits, but when you return to 13 I don't think it would be a problem all that often. We rarely have 11 rotation type guys on the roster, much less 13.

Your right. My comments were meant as a general comment. I'm aware that SU doesn't usually even carry 13 scholarship players (recruited, not walk on's getting scholarships). I'm not sure about other schools. However, how would have JB reacted if Jermi Grant came into his office and said that he wanted to test the waters but if he didn't go 1st round or wasn't drafted, he would like to return. regardless of the # of guys he had on scholarship.

 

[RF2044]

3 years makes no sense to me. That means you'd have kids leaving just short of graduation. Make it 4 so that if courses are completed on time the student-athlete has a more realistic chance of leaving with a degree.

But how does Spencer Haywood v. the NBA fit into this? I thought it was legally established that you can't prevent early entry in that case's disposition.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

But how does Spencer Haywood v. the NBA fit into this? I thought it was legally established that you can't prevent early entry in that case's disposition.

Pfft. Supreme Court. Whatever.

 

[reedny]

What is wrong with being NBA minor league? Good players make for an exiting game = money. Also football is essentially a minor league for the NFL, if not more so. AND to be literal, many college kids are in a sense in the minor leagues in college for their chosen profession.

Your theory (that the absence of any legitimate academic instruction should be tolerated) is already in place at a number of unscrupulous "Universities". We all know the reason. That doesn't make it right.

Semi-pro leagues, in fact, are nowhere near as popular (or lucrative) as Division I competition (at least in FB and BB). This is because intercollegiate rivalries increase viewership. Conferences and networks milk these rivalries for millions, trading on the idea that "student-athletes" are competing against each other at the rival institutions. In order for that competition to be honest, the "students" have to be academically eligible (i.e., attending legitimate college-level classes and achieving passing grades). If not, they can drop out and join the D-Leagues.

As a fan, if you want to watch semi-pro, watch semi-pro. If you want to watch D-1 competition, then watch D-1. But don't pretend the two are interchangeable because some "Universities" (and SA's) are engaged in fraud.

 

[reedny]

"ROSEMONT, Ill. -- Northwestern athletic director Jim Phillips, chair of the new Division I council, voiced his opposition Tuesday to the one-and-done culture in college basketball, joining powerful voices that include NCAA president Mark Emmert and Kentucky coach John Calipari."

Really? Calipari is voicing his opposition to the one and done culture according to ESPN? This was the statement that really got my attention.

I had a laugh over that (inclusion) as well. The fox objecting to the chicken coop.

 

[Eric15]

Why does the NBA care whether a kid gets a degree?

Because "the NBA cares!" Duh!

 

[SBU72]

Your theory (that the absence of any legitimate academic instruction should be tolerated) is already in place at a number of unscrupulous "Universities". We all know the reason. That doesn't make it right.

Semi-pro leagues, in fact, are nowhere near as popular (or lucrative) as Division I competition (at least in FB and BB). This is because intercollegiate rivalries increase viewership. Conferences and networks milk these rivalries for millions, trading on the idea that "student-athletes" are competing against each other at the rival institutions. In order for that competition to be honest, the "students" have to be academically eligible (i.e., attending legitimate college-level classes and achieving passing grades). If not, they can drop out and join the D-Leagues.

As a fan, if you want to watch semi-pro, watch semi-pro. If you want to watch D-1 competition, then watch D-1. But don't pretend the two are interchangeable because some "Universities" (and SA's) are engaged in fraud.

Not to belabor the point too much, it could be said that the yearly cost of education for most D1 schools exceeds what semi-pro players earn. Even D-league players. Yes, it's not cash but it is compensation. All I'm saying in a sense, all of D1 b-ball and football are minor leagues for the NBA and NFL. If you consider that most minor league baseball players don[t make the majors. the D1 sports are pretty much the same already.

 

[Moontan]

I'm sorry, but it's up to the players to choose... some money now vs. professional coaching, excellent facilities, packed arenas, lots of TV exposure, "free" education (yes, it's tricky w/sports) and a potential payoff. If you're at all friendly to schoolwork, the decision is simple.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I'm sorry, but it's up to the players to choose... some money now vs. professional coaching, excellent facilities, packed arenas, lots of TV exposure, "free" education (yes, it's tricky w/sports) and a potential payoff. If you're at all friendly to schoolwork, the decision is simple.

Yep, go pro now, make your money, then go to school.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Pfft. Supreme Court. Whatever.

There was no union then. Now it is collectively bargained.

 

[Briancuse]

Yep, go pro now, make your money, then go to school.

Thats fine if you are ready to play in the nba.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Thats fine if you are ready to play in the nba.

No, it's fine if that's what they want to do?

 

[Briancuse]

No, it's fine if that's what they want to do?

It is, but if the nba decides they want to change their requirements, they have every right to.

 

[IthacaMatt]

3 years makes no sense to me. That means you'd have kids leaving just short of graduation. Make it 4 so that if courses are completed on time the student-athlete has a more realistic chance of leaving with a degree.

With summer school, most kids can graduate in 3 years.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

With summer school, most kids can graduate in 3 years.

In theory, sure. In practice though, very few actually pull it off.

 

[Cheriehoop]

With summer school, most kids can graduate in 3 years.

Almost impossible unless the specific courses you need for your major are even offered in the summer which are much tougher for upperclassmen, upper division courses. Most "normal" students can't do it unless they had a number of AP or college classes transfer from high school, less student-athletes with their schedules accomplishing it. In 2013 only 39% of students get their degree in even 4 years, the average sadly now is 6 years.

 

[pfister1]

Almost impossible unless the specific courses you need for your major are even offered in the summer which are much tougher for upperclassmen, upper division courses. Most "normal" students can't do it unless they had a number of AP or college classes transfer from high school, less student-athletes with their schedules accomplishing it. In 2013 only 39% of students get their degree in even 4 years, the average sadly now is 6 years.

The average is six years? That can't be right for full time undergrad students. That would be a lot of wasted years.

 

[Briancuse]

The average is six years? That can't be right for full time undergrad students. That would be a lot of wasted years.

That probably isn't just factoring in the average 18-22 year old undergrads, it takes into account all the people who work and go to school part time. I took longer to graduate, because I took some time off, and worked, and went back part time to finish.

 

[Cheriehoop]

The average is six years? That can't be right for full time undergrad students. That would be a lot of wasted years.

I keep reading 6 years but here's some stats but they only go through 2006 - pretty low stats for students going full time getting their degree in 4 years. The second article is just one of many that state it normally takes 6 years. I know it's more difficult for kids to get into required classes - universities are on tight budgets, less duplicate course offerings in a semester, less full-time professors , more adjuncts thus night classes hurting students with work-study, drop dates for classes much later than add dates for classes, more students going to college who may not be prepared for college work etc. It's one reason I really encouraged my sons to take AP/college courses in high school that would transfer credits so they'd be as close to a semester ahead as they could.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d13/tables/dt13_326.10.asp

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...e-college-degree-takes-six-years-us-sen-ron-/

 

[Cheriehoop]

That probably isn't just factoring in the average 18-22 year old undergrads, it takes into account all the people who work and go to school part time. I took longer to graduate, because I took some time off, and worked, and went back part time to finish.

I imagine if you started out full time and left because of the cost, (regardless of the reason) you would be included in those stats. Cost and cost increases have to be a big factor too.

 

[reedny]

Not to belabor the point too much, it could be said that the yearly cost of education for most D1 schools exceeds what semi-pro players earn. Even D-league players. Yes, it's not cash but it is compensation. All I'm saying in a sense, all of D1 b-ball and football are minor leagues for the NBA and NFL. If you consider that most minor league baseball players don[t make the majors. the D1 sports are pretty much the same already.

I guess you could say that D-1 SA's and D-league players are both "developing" their skills. But other than that, I'm not sure how you can look at the experience SA's get at Syracuse University and the life of minor leaguers traveling around on buses playing in war memorials and conclude they're comparable.

 

[orangefan13]

Even if the players had to stay there for 2-3 years a team like kentucky would be even better as 1-2 super freshmen would come back, on top of blooming sophmores and jrs.

Some of the basketball powerhouses would be better in march if the freshmen sophmores had to stay. Alot of the underdogs tend to run with seniors and would be up against better teams.