Not breaking news, but the ACC is terrible

[orangecuse]

ACC Problems -

1 - Coaching - Look at when the ACC was king they had the best coaches in the game. Everyone wanted to coach in the ACC. It was the IT thing to do. Now all those legends retired and the people who have taken their place have failed or those legends have held on too long and destroyed their program.

2 - $$$$ - For whatever reason the ACC is behind in raising money for basketball. It just seems the leadership was not ready for the shift and was blindsided by the entire NIL thing.

3- Style of play - Seems a lot of programs have not adapted to modern basketball. Watching other teams and other leagues it is a different game than most teams play in the ACC. That is probably why the ACC has had some tournament success.

4- Syracuse - Make no mistake we are part of the problem. We and other programs were brought in because we were a superpower and counted on to continue that but we haven't. It isn't just us it is other programs as well.

The ACC became complacent & lazy, especially with its TV contract $$$ to fall back on, and rested on its laurels so to speak. Lost big time coaches due to retirement, etc. as you mentioned, and then hired many non proven, no name and "family" member types to carry the torch. Epic fail. It's why many successful business, etc. don't hire family members, at least not for its most critical type positions.

The ACC in nothing more than a glorified (if that) mid-major conference nowadays. You reap what you sow...

 

[CarlsbergMD]

The Mountain West has better basketball right now than the ACC.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I somewhat think the board is underrating our chances for wins in part due to overestimating the quality of the ACC.

Eh, I'm not banking on anything. Those dumpster fire starts aren't always going to be overcome. We were in a dogfight with GaTech and BC, and lost to ND in addition to being down by 17.

Based on a few different metrics, we've only beaten one team (ND) better than us in SRS (BBallRef), two teams better than us in NET (ND and Cornell), two teams better than us in KP (ND & Georgia Tech), and we are one of five teams with a negative net rating on BBall Reference. At Torvik, we're expected to win three more games, one against BC and going 2-1 in three Pick-Em's (Miami, VA and VA Tech).

The bottom half of the ACC is a whole lot of excrement swirling around and sometimes a few turds will float to the top and a few will sink depending on the day.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Eh, I'm not banking on anything. Those dumpster fire starts aren't always going to be overcome. We were in a dogfight with GaTech and BC, and lost to ND in addition to being down by 17.

Based on a few different metrics, we've only beaten one team (ND) better than us in SRS (BBallRef), two teams better than us in NET (ND and Cornell), two teams better than us in KP (ND & Georgia Tech), and we are one of five teams with a negative net rating on BBall Reference. At Torvik, we're expected to win three more games, one against BC and going 2-1 in three Pick-Em's (Miami, VA and VA Tech).

The bottom half of the ACC is a whole lot of excrement swirling around and sometimes a few turds will float to the top and a few will sink depending on the day.

My thinking is simpler than that.

Crappy team vs good team, it's easy to predict the outcome.

Crappy team vs crappy team, the outcomes are less predictable.

Few good teams in the ACC means we're mostly playing other crappy teams.

 

[Cusefan0307]

ACC Problems -

1 - Coaching - Look at when the ACC was king they had the best coaches in the game. Everyone wanted to coach in the ACC. It was the IT thing to do. Now all those legends retired and the people who have taken their place have failed or those legends have held on too long and destroyed their program.

2 - $$$$ - For whatever reason the ACC is behind in raising money for basketball. It just seems the leadership was not ready for the shift and was blindsided by the entire NIL thing.

3- Style of play - Seems a lot of programs have not adapted to modern basketball. Watching other teams and other leagues it is a different game than most teams play in the ACC. That is probably why the ACC has had some tournament success.

4- Syracuse - Make no mistake we are part of the problem. We and other programs were brought in because we were a superpower and counted on to continue that but we haven't. It isn't just us it is other programs as well.

Swofford did a terrible job. Too much time spent trying to appease his former employer and Duke.

 

[OCESIP]

Swofford did a terrible job. Too much time spent trying to appease his former employer and Duke.

Which highlights what a great job Dave Gavitt did in getting the Big East to be the power house it became.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Which highlights what a great job Dave Gavitt did in getting the Big East to be the power house it became.

Gavitt was on a level all his own, literally. He modernized college basketball and not only built a conference, but helped build a sports network at the same time. Genius.

 

[Cusefan95]

I can’t believe Miami, they’re just 2-3 years removed from an Elite 8 and a Final Four and all of the sudden they’re dreadful like they were when they first joined the Big East way back when

Miami imploding after a Final Four run because everyone chased better NIL deals shows where college athletics is at.

The portal has completely changed college athletics; every season is a roster of soon-to-be free agents. There was a time when I’d stick with watching a mediocre Syracuse team because you could see the development of young players who were going to help in future years (2002 is an example). I don’t think I’ve watched five total minutes of Syracuse basketball since the end of the Colgate game - it was obvious this wasn’t going to be a good team, and I can’t see investing my time watching guys develop who likely will play elsewhere next year. If they had ever gone on a run I might have been pulled back in…but I think I’m going to find other things are a much higher priority to me as soon as I’m reasonably confident it’s not a top 4 seed type of team. Anything lower, I’ll tune back in when the NCAA tourney starts.

As a former season ticket holding die-hard, I think that is an indicator of how fans in general are going to view college athletics in the future - schools are going to need to win the fans over every year, and are going to find they bail very fast if the season isn’t going well.

 

[AcAndAc]

Miami imploding after a Final Four run because everyone chased better NIL deals shows where college athletics is at.

The portal has completely changed college athletics; every season is a roster of soon-to-be free agents. There was a time when I’d stick with watching a mediocre Syracuse team because you could see the development of young players who were going to help in future years (2002 is an example). I don’t think I’ve watched five total minutes of Syracuse basketball since the end of the Colgate game - it was obvious this wasn’t going to be a good team, and I can’t see investing my time watching guys develop who likely will play elsewhere next year. If they had ever gone on a run I might have been pulled back in…but I think I’m going to find other things are a much higher priority to me as soon as I’m reasonably confident it’s not a top 4 seed type of team. Anything lower, I’ll tune back in when the NCAA tourney starts.

As a former season ticket holding die-hard, I think that is an indicator of how fans in general are going to view college athletics in the future - schools are going to need to win the fans over every year, and are going to find they bail very fast if the season isn’t going well.

Until someone invents a long-term NIL contract, at least. People keep saying that the NCAA cannot stop moves. But signatures on contracts can. Or at least make it interesting.

 

[grepal]

We are squarely off the ACC bubble with Miami, Cal/UVA, and BC likely being left out. Nonetheless, we gotta get over that Quad II / III hump. Bart Torvik does a good job visualizing that data if you select Quadrant View in the Trend Stat menu: T-Page for Syracuse - Customizable College Basketball Tempo Free Stats - T-Rank For now, we’re just loading up on cupcakes and have nothing of substance to our record. We’re still going to be double digit dogs in about 5 games despite the conference sucking. We’re also objectively playing better than we were a month ago so that’s something

Look we are not an NCAA tourney team this year without a miraculous NC State like run from last year. I am just trying to stay entertained
I live in CT so when I want to see great hoops I tune into the Lady Huskies.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Until someone invents a long-term NIL contract, at least. People keep saying that the NCAA cannot stop moves. But signatures on contracts can. Or at least make it interesting.

Why do you suppose nobody has done this yet?

 

[chuck]

The ACC became complacent & lazy, especially with its TV contract $$$ to fall back on, and rested on its laurels so to speak. Lost big time coaches due to retirement, etc. as you mentioned, and then hired many non proven, no name and "family" member types to carry the torch. Epic fail. It's why many successful business, etc. don't hire family members, at least not for its most critical type positions.

The ACC in nothing more than a glorified (if that) mid-major conference nowadays. You reap what you sow...

Maybe the great coaches retiring because of the NIL nonsense hurt teams?

 

[Scooch]

CONGRATULATIONS to Louisville for getting ranked! That makes a whole TWO teams from the ACC now! What an accomplishment for the self professed best basketball conference in the nation.

Boo to the SEC for having 9 teams ranked. And boo to the B1G for its 5 ranked teams. You guys suck.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The ACC became complacent & lazy, especially with its TV contract $$$ to fall back on, and rested on its laurels so to speak. Lost big time coaches due to retirement, etc. as you mentioned, and then hired many non proven, no name and "family" member types to carry the torch. Epic fail. It's why many successful business, etc. don't hire family members, at least not for its most critical type positions.

The ACC in nothing more than a glorified (if that) mid-major conference nowadays. You reap what you sow...

Nailed it!
I would add that the clear regional bias also hurts the product.

 

[Cusefan95]

Why do you suppose nobody has done this yet?

My guess is because we’re in a rapidly changing landscape where laws are trailing the real world, and different states have very different NIL laws that would make consistent application of long-term NIL deals impossible (so the NCAA wouldn’t currently allow it). It’s also a step towards formal professionalization of college athletics that folks like you oppose with some justification.

I think we’ll end up with some form of multi-year deals eventually…what that looks like is hard to even guess right now. The current model with everyone on efficiency one-year deals is inherently unstable and cannot last - but there isnt a better structure available right now so we’re going with it for the moment. I’m certain we’re not going to g to be uniformly satisfied with what replaces it though.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

My guess is because we’re in a rapidly changing landscape where laws are trailing the real world, and different states have very different NIL laws that would make consistent application of long-term NIL deals impossible (so the NCAA wouldn’t currently allow it). It’s also a step towards formal professionalization of college athletics that folks like you oppose with some justification.

I think we’ll end up with some form of multi-year deals eventually…what that looks like is hard to even guess right now. The current model with everyone on efficiency one-year deals is inherently unstable and cannot last - but there isnt a better structure available right now so we’re going with it for the moment. I’m certain we’re not going to g to be uniformly satisfied with what replaces it though.

I don't the court rulings allow for multi-year NIL agreements to be so binding that it prevents transfers. That's why I think nobody has done it yet. I suspect it's a straight not starter.

 

[tbonezone]

who here can even see 4 bids ? i mean you got Duke and who else ?

 

[ar inj]

I don't the court rulings allow for multi-year NIL agreements to be so binding that it prevents transfers. That's why I think nobody has done it yet. I suspect it's a straight not starter.

Nothing prevents a player from entering into a multi-year NIL deal. Michigan just signed some qb who got a multi-year deal. Does that mean he cannot transfer? I do not know. It depends what the contract requires. For enough money some will agree not to transfer and if they do, the NIL contract should address the ramifications (e.g., no more payments, stipulated damages (i.e., required payback), who knows)

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Nothing prevents a player from entering into a multi-year NIL deal. Michigan just signed some qb who got a multi-year deal. Does that mean he cannot transfer? I do not know. It depends what the contract requires. For enough money some will agree not to transfer and if they do, the NIL contract should address the ramifications (e.g., no more payments, stipulated damages (i.e., required payback), who knows)

I didn't say the player was prevented from entering a multi-year deal.

I said the multi-year deal can't prevent the player from transferring.

 

[ar inj]

I didn't say the player was prevented from entering a multi-year deal.

I said the multi-year deal can't prevent the player from transferring.

Why do you say that? Why can't the player agree not to transfer?

 

[CnyTarheel]

who here can even see 4 bids ? i mean you got Duke and who else ?

Clemson, Louisville, and maybe Pitt all I can see

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Why do you say that? Why can't the player agree not to transfer?

Because then the contract would be pay for play, and not NIL.

 

[ar inj]

Because then the contract would be pay for play, and not NIL.

That would not make it pay for play. The Michigan QB has a reported 4-year NIL deal and yet nobody knows if he will play.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Clemson, Louisville, and maybe Pitt all I can see

SMU and UNC aren't bad. Stanford is ok but won't get a bid.

 

[CnyTarheel]

SMU and UNC aren't bad. Stanford is ok but won't get a bid.

True.. but I don't see those 3 getting bids I just pointed out who I thought would and I'm a heels fan