not many teams with two players with Battle and Brissett's 3p% and assists | Syracusefan.com

not many teams with two players with Battle and Brissett's 3p% and assists

Millhouse

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Here are the schools that had two players who shot at least 111 threes (Brissett's lower total) for under 32.2% (Battle's higher percentage) with fewer than 80 assists (Battle's higher total)

I included assists to exclude bad shooting floor generals who are good at assists

These are the schools that had two players like that. Most of these teams are dreadful - someone has to shoot. We are not dreadful, why in the hell are we in this group?

I know we saw them shooting less later on but they still shot too much

Savannah State SRS 348
Cal State Bakersfield 223
Syracuse 40
Stanford 95
Charleston Southern 185
North Texas 159
Saint Joseph's 160
Army 253
Colorado 57
SIU Edwardsville 327
Delaware State 353
Houston Baptist 287
Maine 332
 
It’s a product of ending up with some many bad possessions, that bad shooters are forced to take long shots after dribbling.
yeah, i bet that's the case with the atrocious teams on that list but it shouldn't be so dire for us
 
it would be interesting to see not only how well teams shoot in the last 5 secs of a shot clock but how many got good shots that late
 
No question our recruiting has taken a nose dive.. Team badly in need of a shakeup.
 
Here are the schools that had two players who shot at least 111 threes (Brissett's lower total) for under 32.2% (Battle's higher percentage) with fewer than 80 assists (Battle's higher total)
How are you getting the team season finder? Is that a paid subscriber tool?
 
How are you getting the team season finder? Is that a paid subscriber tool?
i looked for everyone with 111+ threes, <=32.2% from three, <=80 assists. there were ninety some guys. dumped to excel, then pivoted on school name. then dumped the season rankings and vlookup'd the SRS for those teams with 2 guys on the original list
 
i looked for everyone with 111+ threes, <=32.2% from three, <=80 assists. there were ninety some guys. dumped to excel, then pivoted on school name. then dumped the season rankings and vlookup'd the SRS for those teams with 2 guys on the original list
Gotcha
 
Here are the schools that had two players who shot at least 111 threes (Brissett's lower total) for under 32.2% (Battle's higher percentage) with fewer than 80 assists (Battle's higher total)

I included assists to exclude bad shooting floor generals who are good at assists

These are the schools that had two players like that. Most of these teams are dreadful - someone has to shoot. We are not dreadful, why in the hell are we in this group?

I know we saw them shooting less later on but they still shot too much

Savannah State SRS 348
Cal State Bakersfield 223
Syracuse 40
Stanford 95
Charleston Southern 185
North Texas 159
Saint Joseph's 160
Army 253
Colorado 57
SIU Edwardsville 327
Delaware State 353
Houston Baptist 287
Maine 332

Interesting stat and not hard to believe, by the way, given how stagnant we looked for long stretches in most games all season. It's worth noting that Brissett changed gears in game 18 and averaged just over 2 threes a game the rest of the way, so he at least tried to adjust.

The question is what to make of it? Is it that Battle and Brissett are ball-dominant and not particularly good passers? Is it that our offensive system is subpar? Is it that we didn't have enough talent around those guys? Is it that we didn't have a true PG and our 'best' PG options were a frosh who wasn't quite ready for the role and a senior who, perhaps b/c of injury, struggled to perform at a high level? Is it because we seem to play so slow?

I guess the answer is a little from each of those factors, but my point is that it would be a lot easier to fix if it was one issue.

I think re-tooling the offense to some degree has to be a priority in the offseason. We just get so few easy baskets that piling up big assist numbers seems almost impossible at times. We get next to nothing from the post, we rarely run a set that culminates with a cutter getting a pass heading to the rim. the only time we looked to have any semblance real offense was when teams zoned us and we would get dolezaj at the high post.

Regardless, interesting to see how this plays out next year with a roster that will be very different in makeup (for better or for worse). Figure you'll see a ton of Carey at the 1 (doesn't help our shooting much but he may create off the dribble better than any guy we've had since Ennis maybe?), Buddy/Hughes/Brissett (assuming he's back, Guerrier if he's not)/Dolezaj with a healthy dose of Goodine and Guerrier off the bench and maybe some minutes for other guys who can play their way in (Girard/HW/Braswell).

Carey is the one guy who can break someone down out of that group (maybe Goodine but it's hard to tell from film) so you'd have to figure we will need to get some movement and maybe get a healthy dose of Brissett in the post? I don't know. On the plus side you've got some BB IQ (to use a meaningless phrase) with guys who seem to make good decisions with the ball (Buddy/Dolezaj/HW/Braswell in limited time, Goodine and JGIII seem like pretty polished offensive players, etc.).

But I really have no idea what an offense would look like without Frank and Tyus alternating turns running off a high-ball screen or going one-on-one.
 
No question our recruiting has taken a nose dive.. Team badly in need of a shakeup.

Battle was the highest ranked recruit on the team, so if anything this stat would disprove the "we need higher ranked recruits" narrative.

On the other hand, Buddy, one of the lowest ranked recruits, had one if the most efficient shooting years of any freshman in ACC history.

I'm certainly not arguing that Syracuse needs more low ranked recruits, just pointing out that the rankings dont teach us much and shouldn't be taken at face value.
 
Battle was the highest ranked recruit on the team, so if anything this stat would disprove the "we need higher ranked recruits" narrative.

On the other hand, Buddy, one of the lowest ranked recruits, had one if the most efficient shooting years of any freshman in ACC history.

I'm certainly not arguing that Syracuse needs more low ranked recruits, just pointing out that the rankings dont teach us much and shouldn't be taken at face value.
odd career for battle. guy who shoots 37% on plenty of 3s as a freshman follows with two 32% years.
 
odd career for battle. guy who shoots 37% on plenty of 3s as a freshman follows with two 32% years.

To me this happens when we ask guys to do more than one guy can reasonably do — at least if they’re not named melo or KD or Kemba — it hurts shooting numbers.

Battle shot well as a frosh when he was hanging around the arc and Gillon (and to a lesser extent Frank early in the season) was handling the PG duties, white was scoring a ton, Thompson, as bad a defender as he was, was scoring, Lyndon, etc.

The past two years it was battle shouldering a huge load and being asked to shoot 35%+. Feel like we need to get away from having one guy shoulder that burden. Saw it with GMac imo too
 
odd career for battle. guy who shoots 37% on plenty of 3s as a freshman follows with two 32% years.
Probably within his margin of error.

There's been some math done that shows 3% is really variable. and takes about 750 attempts to stabilize. Tyus has 534 for his career, so I think he could just be getting to his natural talent level. If you look at a 5-game rolling average for his career, he got off to a great start in non-conference games as a freshman and then just kind of leveled off.
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We are not dreadful, why in the hell are we in this group?

Because we don't run an offense, we run an "offense".

edit: Seriously, after watching a lot of the Tourney there weren't that many games where I didn't at some point wonder why SU can't run plays/get shooters open/post up/dish/alley oop/make putbacks, etc. like that.
 
Probably within his margin of error.

There's been some math done that shows 3% is really variable. and takes about 750 attempts to stabilize. Tyus has 534 for his career, so I think he could just be getting to his natural talent level. If you look at a 5-game rolling average for his career, he got off to a great start in non-conference games as a freshman and then just kind of leveled off.
View attachment 158282
why can't our guys ever stabilize upward ha

i'll check out that link - thanks
 
1. the team this year was all wearing "NBA-Goggles"...and it blurred their vision from deep.

2. ISO-heavy offensive scheme BY DESIGN did not do either of these players' shooting %'s any favors.

3. the fact that there are multiple players on the court who cannot do the fundamentals at a REC league level at pretty much all times...that dynamic is a serious hindrance to shot quality/offensive "flow", imo.

In Battle's case - when he was a freshman...he could shoot in the flow of the offense and didn't to create his own shots to score...that's why his % was higher...better offense = better %

He might actually buck the trend of SU players who get drafted too high b/c the system makes them look good and be the reverse...might be better than the system made him look when he can get into the NBA and have more space to maneuver, etc...he really does just need to shoot it better from 3 though. period.
 
I think re-tooling the offense to some degree has to be a priority in the offseason. We just get so few easy baskets that piling up big assist numbers seems almost impossible at times. We get next to nothing from the post, we rarely run a set that culminates with a cutter getting a pass heading to the rim. the only time we looked to have any semblance real offense was when teams zoned us and we would get dolezaj at the high post.
All of this. We're absolutely terrible at passing with purpose. We move the ball, but almost never in a way that gets a player in position to do something with it. It drives me nuts.
 
All of this. We're absolutely terrible at passing with purpose. We move the ball, but almost never in a way that gets a player in position to do something with it. It drives me nuts.
There was a play by MSU towards the end of the Duke game where Winston stole the ball from Barrett, pushed it up court and threaded a bounce pass in traffic to Tillman who A) was fouled going up strong with the ball and B) held on to finish the dunk. After that, I thought, if that was Syracuse, Howard would have pulled off to the side with the ball and stopped 30 feet from the basket while Duke finished setting up their defense OR Battle would have tried to drive the lane 1-3, been fouled (50/50 if it would be called) and had the ball knocked away.
 

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