Not surprised ESPN is making every excuse for KeNITucky | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com
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Not surprised ESPN is making every excuse for KeNITucky

TheCusian said:
Cal is an elite recruiter (ethical or no) that ends up with way to much turnover year to year. He'll have years where they are elite NC contenders and others that just fall apart in the NIT.

There will be to much inconsistency to prove his coaching credentials one way or another - he'll be forever a by-product of his players talent - not his.
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I think the first sentence here is an interesting point. JB is in some sense the ultimate low-variance coach - always winning seasons, relatively few spectacular ones (at least till recently). Calipari is somewhat of the opposite, as we've seen the last two years. (Although JB also went to the NIT the year after playing for the NC in '96.) I'm not sure this makes JB a better coach. Calhoun also had a style that produced huge variances - a lot of NIT bids mixed in with a lot of absolutely dominant teams. And I think Calhoun, while a jerk, was obviously a great coach. Someone like Tom Izzo is more on the Boeheim end - very, very good teams year-in and year-out, but he's not a guy who's going to have a wire-to-wire dominant team. But Izzo's still a great coach (now, probably #2 to K).

On your second sentence, I don't see how you can ignore recruiting when evaluating a college basketball coach. It is probably the most important part of a coach's job. And if you do insist on ignoring recruiting to evaluate whether a coach is "great," I'm not sure how you do it -imagine a counterfactual where everyone has the same players?

I think Calipari is a scumball and bad for college basketball. I think he's probably cheating more than average, but I also think everyone's cheating at least some. But I think you can make that point without making the weird argument that he's not a good coach.
 
Waltdods said:
I think the first sentence here is an interesting point. JB is in some sense the ultimate low-variance coach - always winning seasons, relatively few spectacular ones (at least till recently). Calipari is somewhat of the opposite, as we've seen the last two years. (Although JB also went to the NIT the year after playing for the NC in '96.) I'm not sure this makes JB a better coach. Calhoun also had a style that produced huge variances - a lot of NIT bids mixed in with a lot of absolutely dominant teams. And I think Calhoun, while a jerk, was obviously a great coach. Someone like Tom Izzo is more on the Boeheim end - very, very good teams year-in and year-out, but he's not a guy who's going to have a wire-to-wire dominant team. But Izzo's still a great coach (now, probably #2 to K).

On your second sentence, I don't see how you can ignore recruiting when evaluating a college basketball coach. It is probably the most important part of a coach's job. And if you do insist on ignoring recruiting to evaluate whether a coach is "great," I'm not sure how you do it -imagine a counterfactual where everyone has the same players?

I think Calipari is a scumball and bad for college basketball. I think he's probably cheating more than average, but I also think everyone's cheating at least some. But I think you can make that point without making the weird argument that he's not a good coach.
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I wasn't arguing that he isn't a good coach - just that it's hard to tell when his players are so dominant. If you include recruiting (which makes sense), then the evidence points to him being one of the best. But we can't talk about all of this and not say he hasn't brought NCAA sanctions along with the great recruits. As someone mentioned earlier - great coaches also play by the rules - mostly ;).
 
cusetown1 said:
You and me were watching the same game. All they were doing was launching up 3's, it was terrible. Thankfully for them they have Randle. And for the record I think MSU is good and not great.
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Ok, so #1 Kentucky = no good

#2 MSU = good not great

Do I dare ask who is great this year in your opinion? I have a feeling there is one great team this year in your opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
two3zone said:
Ok, so #1 Kentucky = no good

#2 MSU = good not great

Do I dare ask who is great this year in your opinion? I have a feeling there is one great team this year in your opinion.


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Too early to tell. I will let you know in mid January. I said UK was no good?
 
You have got to be kidding me!
image.jpg
 
So calipari's players don't improve over the course of their freshman season??? I remember Teague being a player who really improved over the course of his freshman season. The guy might not be a great coach, but to say he's not a good coach is just showing a biased hatred toward him and Kentucky
 
timkay99 said:
Didn't the current coach at Syracuse get sanctioned by the NCAA?

And lets get serious. Is Cal a good person? No. Is he a good coach? Yes.

Anyone who doesn't think he is a good coach is just full of sour grapes b/c of how shady he is.
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What did he do exactly to make him a bad person? You people with your personal judgements based on sports is ridiculous. I'm not saying he's perfect, I'm saying you can't find a valid reason to explain to a non sports fan that he's a bad person.

Saying coaches on this level can't coach is ridiculous too. Roy Williams, Bill Self Calipari, and all the other coaches who get great talent can't absolutely coach on top of their great recruiting. Rick Barnes is the exception.
 
The Governor said:
Ranked 22nd at the time.
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That was not according to bubble watch right before NN injury game. They were not in Lunardi's bracket (either last four out or even group after that). Sorry to disappoint you!
:)
 
tee1222 said:
That was not according to bubble watch right before NN injury game. They were not in Lunardi's bracket (either last four out or even group after that). Sorry to disappoint you!
:)
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You and your facts.
 
Btw, for everyone who hasn't read these bubble watches, work left to do is not a good thing. "Should be in" or better is usually an indication.
 
The Governor said:
What did he do exactly to make him a bad person? You people with your personal judgements based on sports is ridiculous. I'm not saying he's perfect, I'm saying you can't find a valid reason to explain to a non sports fan that he's a bad person.

Saying coaches on this level can't coach is ridiculous too. Roy Williams, Bill Self Calipari, and all the other coaches who get great talent can't absolutely coach on top of their great recruiting. Rick Barnes is the exception.
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:rolleyes:
 
tee1222 said:
That was not according to bubble watch right before NN injury game. They were not in Lunardi's bracket (either last four out or even group after that). Sorry to disappoint you!
:)
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Kentucky just went back into the top 25 before the injury game and was 17-6 before that game.

Also before that game they lost to Duke, Baylor, and Louisville as three of their 5 losses.

They also had a 5 game winning streak going into #7 Florida when he went down. They may have been on the bubble before that streak but they were getting hot and doing well. To say they weren't is just shaky potatoes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
two3zone said:
Kentucky just went back into the top 25 before the injury game and was 17-6 before that game.

Also before that game they lost to Duke, Baylor, and Louisville as three of their 5 losses.

They also had a 5 game winning streak going into #7 Florida when he went down. They may have been on the bubble before that streak but they were getting hot and doing well. To say they weren't is just shaky potatoes.


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I know, they weren't shaky potatoes but neither were my facts. Just read the bubble watch I posted. They did have a little momentum before NN went down, but they were off the bubble at that point, and still had plenty of work to get back in. Would they have? Possibly, but not probably.

Btw, even though it was directed at me, good shaky potatoes usage. The line, it's starting to flow.
 
tee1222 said:
For your viewing pleasure:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bubblewatch?id=144
Booyakasha, before NN, whoever doubts me can read a few sentences.
Truth, boyeeeeeee!

Now, Kenturkey fans, back to your excuses.
Ranked 22 LOL, even if this was true, as I said, outside looking in, or better still, to their tough NIT first round competition.
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The injury occurred on Feb. 12. On Feb 11th, according to the crowd sourcing "Bracket Matrix", they were a 9 seed. They were not a lock by any means, but you are being disingenuous by saying they were on the outside looking in.

http://bracketproject.blogspot.com/2013_02_01_archive.html
 
PoppyHart said:
The injury occurred on Feb. 12. On Feb 11th, according to the crowd sourcing "Bracket Matrix", they were a 9 seed. They were not a lock by any means, but you are being disingenuous by saying they were on the outside looking in.

http://bracketproject.blogspot.com/2013_02_01_archive.html
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Not according to ESPN, but let's go with the bracket project now. By the way, how did Kentucky finish last year?
Boom!
 
tee1222 said:
Not according to ESPN, but let's go with the bracket project now. By the way, how did Kentucky finish last year?
Boom!
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Did you find Lunardi's bracket from that week? I don't see it archived. Not sure why an aggregation site is considered a bad source.
 
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