Nova / Michigan

[Orangefan1]

lol

what's funny about it? Its the truth. I'd say the same if Syracuse were in the old big east to. Answer this question would Syracuse had been a higher seed or not sweating it out on selection Sunday last year had they been in the old big east? I'd say yes. Would they not have played a play in game? a big yes. And would of been in a different bracket?

 

[HOFCeluck]

“Cherry pick to make your point” = old and busted

Spitting flaming H0T Takes = new hotness

 

[HOFCeluck]

what's funny about it? Its the truth. I'd say the same if Syracuse were in the old big east to. Answer this question would Syracuse had been a higher seed or not sweating it out on selection Sunday last year had they been in the old big east? I'd say yes. Would they not have played a play in game? a big yes. And would of been in a different bracket?

lol

 

[jncuse]

Yeah things happen in the tournament. I don't agree with how you cherry pick to make your point but that's fine. Wasn't even talking about that just stating an opinion on what I think Nova really is. You could also argue some of those mid majors would be 9-9 in the ACC to and not have a higher seed advantage in the tournament. All I was simply pointing out was the fact that Nova if it played in the ACC today its' highly
doubtful they are a 1 seed because they aren't going to go 35-2.

How did I cherry pick? I noted that 9 of the last 36 final four teams are outside of the power 5 conferences (and I excluded pre 2013 Big East teams as well) ... that is 25% over the last 9 years. That is not cherry picking.

If you want to look at actual performance, the New Big East has had an over .500 record against P5 teams since its inception. It's been a very deep conference... lacking some power at the absolute top except for Nova.

 

[Orangefan1]

How did I cherry pick? I noted that 9 of the last 36 final four teams are outside of the power 5 conferences (and I excluded pre 2013 Big East teams as well) ... that is 25% over the last 9 years. That is not cherry picking.

If you want to look at actual performance, the New Big East has had an over .500 record against P5 teams since its inception. It's been a very deep conference... lacking some power at the absolute top except for Nova.

You can't make the argument that its a deep conference. It is top heavy, but not a deep conference. Remember I am comparing it to the Big Ten, ACC, Pac-12. There is no comparison. Let me ask you this question. When did those New Big East teams win those games against P5 competition? What months?

 

[jncuse]

Yeah things happen in the tournament. I don't agree with how you cherry pick to make your point but that's fine. Wasn't even talking about that just stating an opinion on what I think Nova really is. You could also argue some of those mid majors would be 9-9 in the ACC to and not have a higher seed advantage in the tournament. All I was simply pointing out was the fact that Nova if it played in the ACC today its' highly
doubtful they are a 1 seed because they aren't going to go 35-2.

Getting back to this.

#1) Here are the seeds those teams had. Not seeing a trend of major seed advantage.

#5, #8, #11, #9, #7, #2, #1, #1, #11

#2) They don't need to go 35-2 to get a #1 seed. An ACC team and B12 team with 7 losses were #1 seeds the past 2 years.

 

[jncuse]

You can't make the argument that its a deep conference. It is top heavy, but not a deep conference. Remember I am comparing it to the Big Ten, ACC, Pac-12. There is no comparison. Let me ask you this question. When did those New Big East teams win those games against P5 competition? What months?

It is indeed a deep conference. There are typically 5-7 teams that are tourney quality teams... in a 10 team league. You are comparing it to the PAC 12 and you are saying there is no comparison? Have you watched the PAC-12, or seen what the PAC-12 has done some years against other leagues.

They win those games against them in November and December. It's kind of hard for any league to beat up any other league in January and February, don't you think? How exactly do you think we should compare leagues?

And in the case of Butler, Xavier and Villanova. (but not Georgetown of course), in March and April too

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yeah Nova destroyed everyone played in the tournament last year. They were the clear cut best team. Don't let this result fool you.

That said I really like Michigan's freshman Brazdeikis. Was surprised we never recruited him.

 

[jncuse]

...

 

[Orangefan1]

It is indeed a deep conference. There are typically 5-7 teams that are tourney quality teams... in a 10 team league. You are comparing it to the PAC 12 and you are saying there is no comparison? Have you watched the PAC-12, or seen what the PAC-12 has done some years against other leagues.

They win those games against them in November and December. It's kind of hard for any league to beat up any other league in January and February, don't you think? How exactly do you think we should compare leagues?

And in the case of Butler, Xavier and Villanova. (but not Georgetown of course), in March and April too

My original point was do you think those teams would be within the top 3 of the ACC or Big Ten? Given the onslaught of teams and the degree of difficulty I would say no. I don't see Butler or Xavier having the same year or seed had they been in either of those conferences. Night in and out.

 

[Cusefan0307]

My original point was do you think those teams would be within the top 3 of the ACC or Big Ten? Given the onslaught of teams and the degree of difficulty I would say no. I don't see Butler or Xavier having the same year or seed had they been in either of those conferences. Night in and out.

Yeah they would have been the best team in both of those conferences last year. They beat Big 12 champs Kansas by 16 in the semis and Big 10 champs Michigan by 17 in the finals. Probably the best college team the last 10 years.

 

[HOFCeluck]

You can't make the argument that its a deep conference. It is top heavy, but not a deep conference. Remember I am comparing it to the Big Ten, ACC, Pac-12. There is no comparison. Let me ask you this question. When did those New Big East teams win those games against P5 competition? What months?

Orangefan1: you can’t cherry pick to make your point.

Also Orangefan1: Only P5 games in certain months are relevant.

 

[Orangefan1]

Orangefan1: you can’t cherry pick to make your point.

Also Orangefan1: Only P5 games in certain months are relevant.

What’s more relevant in your mind then? Instead of picking apart my quote you haven’t offered one substantial argument against either post. If they win in November it’s an outlier for how good they probably are, but does that mean it’s relevant come January or February? The question is would Villanova be a one seed still if they were in a power 5 conference the entire year? You can make your argument based on who they beat and say yes however my opinion is if they were to play day in and day out in those conferences there’s a high probability that they wouldn’t be a one seed in the east region. Chances are they wouldn’t have had the same record. You can argue with that point

 

[PoppyHart]

...

I gave this a “like” for succinctness.

 

[HOFCeluck]

What’s more relevant in your mind then? Instead of picking apart my quote you haven’t offered one substantial argument against either post. If they win in November it’s an outlier for how good they probably are, but does that mean it’s relevant come January or February? The question is would Villanova be a one seed still if they were in a power 5 conference the entire year? You can make your argument based on who they beat and say yes however my opinion is if they were to play day in and day out in those conferences there’s a high probability that they wouldn’t be a one seed in the east region. Chances are they wouldn’t have had the same record. You can argue with that point

So when we beat Oregon Ohio State and Buffalo we should discount that because November. Got it.

You’re the one making this argument, so I’ll put it to you. What would be Novas ACC record last season? Who do they lose to?

And keep in mind that Kansas this past season and UNC in 2017 both had seven losses.

 

[Orangefan1]

So when we beat Oregon Ohio State and Buffalo we should discount that because November. Got it.

You’re the one making this argument, so I’ll put it to you. What would be Novas ACC record last season? Who do they lose to?

And keep in mind that Kansas this past season and UNC in 2017 both had seven losses.

I don't have the time to do that myself maybe you can since you brought it up. I don't discredit those wins in November I did say that although teams are different in February and March normally aren't they?

 

[HOFCeluck]

I don't have the time to do that myself maybe you can since you brought it up. I don't discredit those wins in November I did say that although teams are different in February and March normally aren't they?

That’s not how this works. Allow me to quote your post.

Welcome to what happens when you play real teams. I will say this again nova never would have won that title if they were in the ACC or big ten

So defend this scorching hot take of yours. What do you think Novas ACC record would be? Who would they lose to? Saying that “you don’t have the time” is a cop out and a more generous way of saying that you’re talking out of your a$$.

And that’s ok. This is a message board and we all do it. But at least have the decency to own it.

 

[Orangefan1]

That’s not how this works. Allow me to quote your post.



So defend this scorching hot take of yours. What do you think Novas ACC record would be? Who would they lose to? Saying that “you don’t have the time” is a cop out and a more generous way of saying that you’re talking out of your a$$.

And that’s ok. This is a message board and we all do it. But at least have the decency to own it.

I'll tell you what later on I'll look at and post something. I have no problem owning anything I say.

 

[Cusefan0307]

What’s more relevant in your mind then? Instead of picking apart my quote you haven’t offered one substantial argument against either post. If they win in November it’s an outlier for how good they probably are, but does that mean it’s relevant come January or February? The question is would Villanova be a one seed still if they were in a power 5 conference the entire year? You can make your argument based on who they beat and say yes however my opinion is if they were to play day in and day out in those conferences there’s a high probability that they wouldn’t be a one seed in the east region. Chances are they wouldn’t have had the same record. You can argue with that point

Every metric you look at including KenPom and their tournament performance disagrees with your take. Therefore you are wrong.