Now we can see why Boeheim wants to go to Italy...

[rrlbees]

If MG could have played this year he would have been the 3rd guard.

How do you know that?

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[moqui]

his shooting was woeful,to be sure . . . but he was good-to-very good at every other phase of the game, especially on defense. He is the most experienced defender available at the top of the zone - you know, the tool that has made JB a legend and has fired this amazing five year run.

He can play himself out of the starting lineup, but I'm betting he'll be there game 1.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

his shooting was woeful,to be sure . . . but he was good-to-very good at every other phase of the game, especially on defense. He is the most experienced defender available at the top of the zone - you know, the tool that has made JB a legend and has fired this amazing five year run.

He can play himself out of the starting lineup, but I'm betting he'll be there game 1.

Good at every other phase?...seems a stretch...Cooney did give good hustle on D but was not a prolific scorer. All the inexperienced candidates will be hustling on D. And the D potential of MG and Patterson exceeds that of Cooney.

This team needs some scoring. Especially at the sg. Cooney is limited and IMO would best serve the team as the designated 3 pt shooter off the bench, if he can be a decent shooter.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Conference play won't be tougher than what we've been accustomed to (and perhaps easier). The team certainly has a lot of unproven pieces though.

It's funny, I'm starting to pick up this vibe in the media. Really started noticing it in the "CJ Returns" articles. The new media story line reads like we are coming from the America East to the powerhouse ACC. It is sort of funny that the only real reason to consider the ACC a big powerhouse is because we are coming. They weren't a monster powerhouse last year, or the year before, or the year before that, etc. The Big East was the 500 lb gorilla when we were there - now it is a middling conference that we have left and the ACC is suddenly godzilla.

 

[Col. Bleep]

We have a vicious schedule next year. We start out Maui ( I will be there) with potential games with Baylor, Georgetown (ugh), Cal, Arkansas and Minnesota. We move into an ACC Schedule with Duke 2x, Miami (the ACC Champions) 2x, North Carolina, Notre Dame, NC State and Pitt (whom I hate to play) 2x. The only relief is the away schedule in the ACC (VaTech, Maryland, Clemson, Virginia and BC).
If we are not on top at the start, it's going to be a long season. We have six guys who have never played in an SU game and 5 who've never played zone.

The toughest games here are against Pitt...as usual.
Take out the tournament and a typical BE schedule would be tougher.

 

[OttoMets]

his shooting was woeful,to be sure . . . but he was good-to-very good at every other phase of the game, especially on defense. He is the most experienced defender available at the top of the zone - you know, the tool that has made JB a legend and has fired this amazing five year run.

He can play himself out of the starting lineup, but I'm betting he'll be there game 1.

*Unless Gbiinije does some crazy Wes Johnson stuff in Italy and back here in October.

But Boeheim doesn't want two zone neophytes starting together up top unless they are head-and-shoulders more capable than the other options. As of now, as you say, it's Cooney's job to lose.

 

[OttoMets]

The toughest games here are against Pitt...as usual.
Take out the tournament and a typical BE schedule would be tougher.

Heck, even with the tournament.

The Maui field is no more challenging than San Diego State outdoors + Arkansas in Fayetteville.

We'll see how the dates shake out, but this looks like a pretty favorable schedule.

 

[HouseOfCuse]

We have a vicious schedule next year. We start out Maui ( I will be there) with potential games with Baylor, Georgetown (ugh), Cal, Arkansas and Minnesota. We move into an ACC Schedule with Duke 2x, Miami (the ACC Champions) 2x, North Carolina, Notre Dame, NC State and Pitt (whom I hate to play) 2x. The only relief is the away schedule in the ACC (VaTech, Maryland, Clemson, Virginia and BC).
If we are not on top at the start, it's going to be a long season. We have six guys who have never played in an SU game and 5 who've never played zone.

Miami might not be very good next year. 5 of their top 8 guys were seniors.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

*Unless Gbiinije does some crazy Wes Johnson stuff in Italy and back here in October.

But Boeheim doesn't want two zone neophytes starting together up top unless they are head-and-shoulders more capable than the other options. As of now, as you say, it's Cooney's job to lose.

MG has already done the Wes J impersonation all last season. What he will be doing in Italy is showing that it translates to the games. Does anyone really think MG wouldn't have been the 3rd guard going into the NCAAT last year?

MG is not a neophyte. He is as much a neophyte as WesJ was. He has a full year in our system, another in Dukes. He is probably as old as Cooney. And he was higher rated.

Yes, prior to last season the starting gig in '13-'14 was Cooney's job to lose. And he lost it. It is now MG's job.

 

[moqui]

MG has already done the Wes J impersonation all last season. What he will be doing in Italy is showing that it translates to the games. Does anyone really think MG wouldn't have been the 3rd guard going into the NCAAT last year?

MG is not a neophyte. He is as much a neophyte as WesJ was. He has a full year in our system, another in Dukes. He is probably as old as Cooney. And he was higher rated.

Yes, prior to last season the starting gig in '13-'14 was Cooney's job to lose. And he lost it. It is now MG's job.

I'll bet you a pre-paid year's subscription to the payside that Cooney begins the season as the starting 2 guard and Silent but Deadly fills the Dion Waiters role as super sixth man

 

[OttoMets]

MG has already done the Wes J impersonation all last season. What he will be doing in Italy is showing that it translates to the games. Does anyone really think MG wouldn't have been the 3rd guard going into the NCAAT last year?

MG is not a neophyte. He is as much a neophyte as WesJ was. He has a full year in our system, another in Dukes. He is probably as old as Cooney. And he was higher rated.

Yes, prior to last season the starting gig in '13-'14 was Cooney's job to lose. And he lost it. It is now MG's job.

The Wes analogy is popular, but flawed.

Wes was a consistent scorer who had three or four inches on the guy who played his position during the redshirt year. The redshirt year was the last of a somewhat up-and-down (to be kind) era, after which the coaching staff felt the players needed a change in focus and discipline. The message was clear: defense is the name of the game. We're tightening up on guys who won't play defense (so long, Mssrs. Devendorf and Flynn) and we're not experimenting with players who can't play defense at a particular position (Buh-bye, Rautins and Harris on the wing).

Cooney and Gbinije are basking in the glow of this new era (now four years in and the winningest such period in school history). Boeheim doesn't need to replace a guy who is persona non grata; he's not looking to send messages. He's not in a situation where one player has a distinct physical advantage over the other. He's just looking at two guys, one of whom has capably played 39 games' worth of zone defense and another who has never played a meaningful second of it.

When it comes to defense, practice time doesn't count (funny - we saw that with Wes, whose physical attributes somewhat made up for the fact that he was the worst defender of our starting five in 2010). Cooney has the distinct advantage.

And ratings don't matter.

 

[CiceroCuse]

MG has already done the Wes J impersonation all last season. What he will be doing in Italy is showing that it translates to the games. Does anyone really think MG wouldn't have been the 3rd guard going into the NCAAT last year?

MG is not a neophyte. He is as much a neophyte as WesJ was. He has a full year in our system, another in Dukes. He is probably as old as Cooney. And he was higher rated.

Yes, prior to last season the starting gig in '13-'14 was Cooney's job to lose. And he lost it. It is now MG's job.

Do you know that MG is as good as Wes was? I have not heard that. During the year the Wes sat out, JB said several times that the best player on the team isn't even playing in the games. he was spot on there. I just haven't heard the same accolades about MG.

 

[rrlbees]

Do you know that MG is as good as Wes was? I have not heard that. During the year the Wes sat out, JB said several times that the best player on the team isn't even playing in the games. he was spot on there. I just haven't heard the same accolades about MG.

He nor anyone has said that. He's making things up. He's also placing unrealistic expectations on G.

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Do you know that MG is as good as Wes was? I have not heard that. During the year the Wes sat out, JB said several times that the best player on the team isn't even playing in the games. he was spot on there. I just haven't heard the same accolades about MG.

MG dominated the midnight madness. A lot of buzz back then.

As for JB's comments. Different circumstances. JB is not pumping up MG for several reasons. First, next year is CJ's team. CJ is the man who SU is going to hype up. Secondly, MG has two seasons left, so no need for JB to hype him. Did you hear JB say much about MCW? JB knows what he has and doesn't have any incentive to publicize it.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Cooney and Gbinije are basking in the glow of this new era (now four years in and the winningest such period in school history). Boeheim doesn't need to replace a guy who is persona non grata; he's not looking to send messages. He's not in a situation where one player has a distinct physical advantage over the other. He's just looking at two guys, one of whom has capably played 39 games' worth of zone defense and another who has never played a meaningful second of it.

When it comes to defense, practice time doesn't count (funny - we saw that with Wes, whose physical attributes somewhat made up for the fact that he was the worst defender of our starting five in 2010). Cooney has the distinct advantage.

And ratings don't matter.

I think the recent zone success has people overemphazing JBs reliance on it as a determinant of who will play. Last year for instance, it was Dirty who saw the floor over Grant, not for any D reasons but for the O he could provide.

Next years team needs some scoring. There is CJ and a bunch of unknowns or worse non-producers. Cooney was one of the non-producers. And yes, JB can tell a lot about practice D, I think that translates quite well to games. Unlike his broken trust of Cooney's O, where what difference will it really make how he does in practice there anymore. His game fear will take time to fix.

And there is quite a physical advantage to MG (and Buss). He is significantly taller. I do not think Cooney can ascend to a starting role based on hustling on D.

 

[HoustonCuse]

The Wes analogy is popular, but flawed.

Wes was a consistent scorer who had three or four inches on the guy who played his position during the redshirt year. The redshirt year was the last of a somewhat up-and-down (to be kind) era, after which the coaching staff felt the players needed a change in focus and discipline. The message was clear: defense is the name of the game. We're tightening up on guys who won't play defense (so long, Mssrs. Devendorf and Flynn) and we're not experimenting with players who can't play defense at a particular position (Buh-bye, Rautins and Harris on the wing).

Cooney and Gbinije are basking in the glow of this new era (now four years in and the winningest such period in school history). Boeheim doesn't need to replace a guy who is persona non grata; he's not looking to send messages. He's not in a situation where one player has a distinct physical advantage over the other. He's just looking at two guys, one of whom has capably played 39 games' worth of zone defense and another who has never played a meaningful second of it.

When it comes to defense, practice time doesn't count (funny - we saw that with Wes, whose physical attributes somewhat made up for the fact that he was the worst defender of our starting five in 2010). Cooney has the distinct advantage.

And ratings don't matter.

This analogy is also flawed though. Under this, it will not be Mike G that sits, it will be Ennis. My assumption is that JB thinks in-person practice evaluation for a full season and two off-seasons at Syracuse to be meaningful in terms of Mike picking up the zone. Ennis will have none of that when he comes in. This is the advantage of the Europe trip (which would be so awesome if it happens, btw), but even that will give JB about 1/20th of the evaluation information for Tyler as he has had for Mike.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I'll bet you a pre-paid year's subscription to the payside that Cooney begins the season as the starting 2 guard and Silent but Deadly fills the Dion Waiters role as super sixth man

You're on. I certainly hope MG is above Cooney right now on the depth chart or I wouldn't consider SU to be a top 15 program at the moment.

I have a hard time seeing Cooney as starter material for SU anytime soon now. Maybe with improvement in his senior year, depending on how things break. It is much easier for me to envision him in a role as the 3rd guard with a role of sharpshooting (and of course he needs to start hitting).

From a long term perspective starting Cooney now would just lead to heart break later on. He doesn't seem to match up to the likes of Kaleb, Briscoe, or Whitehead. You don't start BMK over Fab or DC2.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I still have a very positive outlook for Cooney. I think he will wind up being great for us, but more on an Andy Rautins timescale than a GMac timescale. I would be highly surprised if he starts at the beginning of the season next year, however.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I still have a very positive outlook for Cooney. I think he will wind up being great for us, but more on an Andy Rautins timescale than a GMac timescale. I would be highly surprised if he starts at the beginning of the season next year, however.

I'm with you. And I really am pulling for Cooney to improve and contribute. I like the program guys who make good.

It's just that like with the Andy analogy above, the situation would not be good if SU had to start Andy in his soph year.

 

[OttoMets]

I think the recent zone success has people overemphazing JBs reliance on it as a determinant of who will play. Last year for instance, it was Dirty who saw the floor over Grant, not for any D reasons but for the O he could provide.

Next years team needs some scoring. There is CJ and a bunch of unknowns or worse non-producers. Cooney was one of the non-producers. And yes, JB can tell a lot about practice D, I think that translates quite well to games. Unlike his broken trust of Cooney's O, where what difference will it really make how he does in practice there anymore. His game fear will take time to fix.

And there is quite a physical advantage to MG (and Buss). He is significantly taller. I do not think Cooney can ascend to a starting role based on hustling on D.

There just isn't any comparison between playing zone defense in a game and playing in practice. We're not going to agree on that.

Outside of Michael Edwards and Josh Wright, one doesn't see guys getting leapfrogged by people who haven't played before. If it happens, it'll be because Gbinije significantly outplays Cooney in August and October.

 

[OttoMets]

This analogy is also flawed though. Under this, it will not be Mike G that sits, it will be Ennis. My assumption is that JB thinks in-person practice evaluation for a full season and two off-seasons at Syracuse to be meaningful in terms of Mike picking up the zone. Ennis will have none of that when he comes in. This is the advantage of the Europe trip (which would be so awesome if it happens, btw), but even that will give JB about 1/20th of the evaluation information for Tyler as he has had for Mike.

That's all correct, but I'm operating under the assumption that the coaching staff regards Ennis as the only point guard on the team. He's kind of solidified his role by default. And that makes it even more important for his backcourt-mate to be capable on defense and as another ballhandler. (I don't have any idea whether Cooney or Gbinije has the advantage in the latter, but we know my take on defense.)

Ennis might have some struggles, but he'll be on the court for 36 minutes a night. He'll be a good point guard by March (if not much, much sooner).

 

[senorpalmer]

It's funny, I'm starting to pick up this vibehin the media. Really started noticing it in the "CJ Returns" articles. The new media story line reads like we are coming from the America East to the powerhouse ACC. It is sort of funny that the only real reason to consider the ACC a big powerhouse is because we are coming. They weren't a monster powerhouse last year, or the year before, or the year before that, etc. The Big East was the 500 lb gorilla when we were there - now it is a middling conference that we have left and the ACC is suddenly godzilla.

Yeah. The enthusiasm for the home slate is clouding the overall view of the schedule. The hhome sched is made up of what looks like the best the league has to offer. And the road sched is a gift in terms of how easy it looks. Might be the easiest since like 00-02.

 

[rrlbees]

MG dominated the midnight madness. A lot of buzz back then.

Dominated midnight madness? Really? I don't remember if he did or didn't but if you're gonna use a midnight madness which is nothing more than playground 1 on none basketball, then you must remember that a lot of the talk after it was about Cooney. Here's one articles quote about him.

" Keep in mind that little-to-no defense is played during the scrimmage, so it’s hard to make good observations about players. But Trevor Cooney is one player who really stuck out. His shot looked so pure as he hit multiple three-point shots."

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[BlackKnight76]

Wes was the second best freshman in the Big 12 at Iowa State behind some dude named Kevin Durant. MG didn't really see the floor for Duke. I think he's going to be a great player for us, but we should probably not go crazy with the expectations.

 

[moqui]

Dominated midnight madness? Really? I don't remember if he did or didn't but if you're gonna use a midnight madness which is nothing more than playground 1 on none basketball, then you must remember that a lot of the talk after it was about Cooney. Here's one articles quote about him.

" Keep in mind that little-to-no defense is played during the scrimmage, so it’s hard to make good observations about players. But Trevor Cooney is one player who really stuck out. His shot looked so pure as he hit multiple three-point shots."

Sent using my Commodore 64

and that article doesn't even mention Gbinje, let alone calls his performance "dominating"