NYSPHSAA not helping football

[Newhouser]

I love small school football but I see another school (near Utica) has dropped to 8 man. Of course now schedules will be impacted, and there is a good possibility that teams will lose more games on their schedule as injuries and other issues arise.

The state needs to bite the bullet and force schools to have numbers before fielding a team. Currently a 16 man roster for 11 man and a 14 (shortly going to 12) for 8 man is unsustainable. The numbers don't make sense nor do the rules about combined programs bouncing up in section. Set a number that has some teeth, give programs and kids an easier path to merge or play with another district, have all of this settled prior to the schedules going out. Someone needs to lead the schools on this issue.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Low numbers force two area high schools to seek entry into 8-man football league

29 kids sign up to play at the end of the school year, but only 18 show up on the 1st day of practice, and three of those quit. What can you do?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I love small school football but I see another school (near Utica) has dropped to 8 man. Of course now schedules will be impacted, and there is a good possibility that teams will lose more games on their schedule as injuries and other issues arise.

The state needs to bite the bullet and force schools to have numbers before fielding a team. Currently a 16 man roster for 11 man and a 14 (shortly going to 12) for 8 man is unsustainable. The numbers don't make sense nor do the rules about combined programs bouncing up in section. Set a number that has some teeth, give programs and kids an easier path to merge or play with another district, have all of this settled prior to the schedules going out. Someone needs to lead the schools on this issue.

So small schools can't have football?

 

[texascpa]

So small schools can't have football?

I attended Poland Central though 8th grade. they didn't have a football team then (early 80's) and they don't have one now.

 

[RandomGuy]

Only 16 or less players for all grades? That's crazy. Do the schools have less than 200? About 1 in 6 boys play around here...about 150 on the team...

If the schools are that small, yeah, they have to merge with another small school. Silly, not to.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Oriskany has an enrollment of 148.

Pulaski is a little bigger, 265.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Only 16 or less players for all grades? That's crazy. Do the schools have less than 200? About 1 in 6 boys play around here...about 150 on the team...

If the schools are that small, yeah, they have to merge with another small school. Silly, not to.

Small schools yeah, but high school ball in Upstate New York isn't what it is in Florida.

 

[RandomGuy]

Oriskany has an enrollment of 148.

Pulaski is a little bigger, 265.

Yeah. That's tiny. Usually the schools around here, with 3-400, team up with a nearby school for football.

One private school, with about 400, just had to cancel their season, because they only had 4 Sr./jr.s... Not fair to the boys, for not having a sustainable plan...

 

[RandomGuy]

Small schools yeah, but high school ball in Upstate New York isn't what it is in Florida.

I'm in New England. They just join schools. When 2 schools team up(and not for the lowest division), they put them on 2 years probation, to make sure it's sustainable. They'll play JV teams from a division up, or other games they can get... Prove sustainability, and they're in...

The 1 issue was from a private school, that didn't join forces. Same as these 2. The only real issue is transportation, and fairly minor. It works.

 

[skurey]

Start up an eSports team instead.

 

[cuse309]

Oriskany has an enrollment of 148.

Pulaski is a little bigger, 265.

That's the whole highschool no? Not per class. I went to Adirondack and graduated with 140ish in my class, and we were class B then. There are some schools graduating 40-60 per class. That's tough to field a team.

 

[orangenauburn]

Recently moved to New Hartford.

The area is close enough where a lot of these smaller districts should be combining programs to boost rosters.

Everything in Utica area is a fifteen twenty minute drive with all the highways.

 

[Cheriehoop]

In the Syracuse area many of the smaller schools are in the rural areas. Combining them, time wise, transportation wise and fiefdom wise is an issue. Another huge problem , actually are the rules regarding combining schools. - For competition they add the enrollments of both districts high schools to determine their new 'class'.

So 2 D class level schools would become a C competition school or even B class competition wise depending on the limits. See below: NYSPHSAA > AD's & Coaches > Classifications

Doesn't encourage schools to share/combine if the school accepting another team's players end up hurting themselves competitively. That's why in sports like swimming, hockey etc - a small school would more likely be combine with one of the much larger schools, if the larger school agrees since the added total enrollment is less likely to affect their original classification.

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

Recently moved to New Hartford.

The area is close enough where a lot of these smaller districts should be combining programs to boost rosters.

Everything in Utica area is a fifteen twenty minute drive with all the highways.

NY Mills & Oriskany players should join New Hartford, they could surely use the help

Honestly, it's a tough situation. Oriskany players could join Whitesboro's program, as they're literally down the road & many kids in that district live closer than many students who attend W'Boro. The problem with that is the current kids really wouldn't have a fair shot & it would take integrating the youth in W'boro's Pop Warner program so they could play all the way through. W'boro is just an anomaly in this area as far as football, our youth programs/Pop Warner is packed & our Varsity has never made cuts so we carry around 50 players annually.

 

[RandomGuy]

In the Syracuse area many of the smaller schools are in the rural areas. Combining them, time wise, transportation wise and fiefdom wise is an issue. Another huge problem , actually are the rules regarding combining schools. - For competition they add the enrollments of both districts high schools to determine their new 'class'.

So 2 D class level schools would become a C competition school or even B class competition wise depending on the limits. See below: NYSPHSAA > AD's & Coaches > Classifications

Doesn't encourage schools to share/combine if the school accepting another team's players end up hurting themselves competitively. That's why in sports like swimming, hockey etc - a small school would more likely be combine with one of the much larger schools, if the larger school agrees since the added total enrollment is less likely to affect their original classification.

The solution here, was join the schools for football only, and the enrollment, for football only. The next step was to have less "classes". Instead of say, 5 or 6, it went to 3. Each class had a wider range of enrollment. For some of the smaller schools, it was now beneficial, from a competition stand point, to join forces, to have more available athletes.. Didn't hurt them, it helped them. And no. It did not hurt the schools that were bumped up into a higher division, either. After the initial adjustment, many of the smaller teams(that initially had doubts moving up), found themselves in the playoffs, or championship games.. The overall level of competition, and football, increased in each class... It can work. Now, schools that couldn't have football, DO. The whole point.

The whole idea of 8 man seems silly to me. (if there is ANY possible solution) The few kids that may be good have almost no competition. The kids that need improvement have no one to push them, etc... No one gains much... Get some #'s and it can be the valuable learning experience football should be.

Edit: Some joined schools are a good 30 min apart

 

[TexanMark]

In the Syracuse area many of the smaller schools are in the rural areas. Combining them, time wise, transportation wise and fiefdom wise is an issue. Another huge problem , actually are the rules regarding combining schools. - For competition they add the enrollments of both districts high schools to determine their new 'class'.

So 2 D class level schools would become a C competition school or even B class competition wise depending on the limits. See below: NYSPHSAA > AD's & Coaches > Classifications

Doesn't encourage schools to share/combine if the school accepting another team's players end up hurting themselves competitively. That's why in sports like swimming, hockey etc - a small school would more likely be combine with one of the much larger schools, if the larger school agrees since the added total enrollment is less likely to affect their original classification.

Agreed but in Pulaski's situation...joining Sandy Creek or Mexico are actually pretty close alternatives. Both are about 10 mins away.

 

[sufandu]

Agreed but in Pulaski's situation...joining Sandy Creek or Mexico are actually pretty close alternatives. Both are about 10 mins away.

If Mexico would want it. I think they're enrollment is still around 900. Sandy Creek may make more sense there.

 

[orangenauburn]

NY Mills & Oriskany players should join New Hartford, they could surely use the help

Honestly, it's a tough situation. Oriskany players could join Whitesboro's program, as they're literally down the road & many kids in that district live closer than many students who attend W'Boro. The problem with that is the current kids really wouldn't have a fair shot & it would take integrating the youth in W'boro's Pop Warner program so they could play all the way through. W'boro is just an anomaly in this area as far as football, our youth programs/Pop Warner is packed & our Varsity has never made cuts so we carry around 50 players annually.

New Hartford help is about 10 years away once my son's are old enough, they will be ok

 

[illi3]

New Hartford help is about 10 years away once my son's are old enough, they will be ok

By then you guys will be class C playing my son in Holland Patent. Or we'll be up to B again. We're up and down every other year it seems.

 

[illi3]

But I have a buddy that is the HC at one of the small northern schools that went to 8 man this year. He's pretty excited about it. Cites the success of these programs in other areas. I hope it works out. The kids that want to play should have an opportunity.

 

[Newhouser]

In the Syracuse area many of the smaller schools are in the rural areas. Combining them, time wise, transportation wise and fiefdom wise is an issue. Another huge problem , actually are the rules regarding combining schools. - For competition they add the enrollments of both districts high schools to determine their new 'class'.

So 2 D class level schools would become a C competition school or even B class competition wise depending on the limits. See below: NYSPHSAA > AD's & Coaches > Classifications

Doesn't encourage schools to share/combine if the school accepting another team's players end up hurting themselves competitively. That's why in sports like swimming, hockey etc - a small school would more likely be combine with one of the much larger schools, if the larger school agrees since the added total enrollment is less likely to affect their original classification.

I think that only applies if they want to compete for a sectional and state title. IF two schools want to merge I think they can still play down pending league and section approval but remove themselves from sectionals. That is where the NFF fit I think.

 

[upperdeck]

it really comes down to comparing what is good for one school vs the other schools. if 2 teams merge that are below avg it usually gives the kids a shot to play, if 2 schools merge that are pretty good and have to play up it doesnt really change much. where you see issues is when 2 smalls schools merge and one was all ready really good and the merge doesnt cause them to change classes, 2-3 kids can make a difference in those divisions.

it can all be worked out but when it happens so late in the year its just chaos.

 

[Qbobby]

I attended Poland Central though 8th grade. they didn't have a football team then (early 80's) and they don't have one now.

Because you guys weren't tough enough to have one! (West Canada alum from a LONG time ago...)

 

[texascpa]

Because you guys weren't tough enough to have one! (West Canada alum from a LONG time ago...)

I actually played pop warner football with West Canada team (6-8th grade, IIRC). Me and about 4-5 of my classmates. We were the toughest kids on the team , but man was our team bad. I don't think we won one game in those three years. We loved it, though.

 

[Qbobby]

Yeah, the valley Pop Warner team still is combined, along with the youth baseball team. They run it under the Kuyahoora moniker instead of WCV or Poland. And yeah, those were the good old days, before we knew anything about life in general. lol