O'Bannon case "could put NCAA out of business..." | Syracusefan.com

O'Bannon case "could put NCAA out of business..."

I'm kind of torn about this. I'm concerned that a ruling against the NCAA would make it all but impossible for all but a handful of schools to really compete in any sport. Once OSU, Florida, Michigan, Alabama, etc. decide they want to dominate a sport they'll have the boosters and local businessmen go out there and sign any player they want because they'll be able to offer the most money.

On the other hand, a lot of people have gotten very rich off the backs of football and basketball players. I realize they get an education and what not, but Nick Saban gets this as a vacation home:

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I don't begrudge Saban or any of the coaches who have succeeded. I just think its horribly unfair that these kids cannot profit off of their fame. For most of them, their fame is incredibly fleeting and ends nationally the minute they are gone from the team. It stops being marketable locally within a few years depending on how big a star they were. Coaches can pick up and go and take the next best offer while the athletes have to sit out a year or get suspended from accepting a free meal or trip from an agent.

And as an organization, it is pretty impossible to love the NCAA. I played D3 tennis and the meetings and rules we had for compliance were insane for a sport that no one (not us, our coaches or parents) cared about. The NCAA is also the same organization that decided to ban hashtags on football fields for some unknown and stupid reason while dragging its feet and holding Miami and Syracuse in this seemingly perpetual state of limbo regarding its investigation. It really is an organization that deserves to be destroyed under the weight of its own sense of self importance. I just worry about what it would mean for Syracuse and the other schools like us that wont be afford to keep up.

And here's another take if you're interested:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-02/the-lawsuit-that-could-bring-down-the-ncaa.html
 
On a serious note, I'm trying to think of a a feasible solution here. Let the athletes get endorsements, just like pro athletes? If Gatorade and Nike want to use Tim Tebow in a commercial, pay him like a pro?
 
EastCoast2 said:
On a serious note, I'm trying to think of a a feasible solution here. Let the athletes get endorsements, just like pro athletes? If Gatorade and Nike want to use Tim Tebow in a commercial, pay him like a pro?
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that would be a disaster. I could see a papa john giving real big endorsements to ville players.
 
dasher said:
that would be a disaster. I could see a papa john giving real big endorsements to ville players.
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Yeah, but the context here is to find a non-disastrous compromise, not a spotless one. This really is one of those issues where both sides have strong points.

And anyway, aren't universities loaded with rich kids, anyway? How many times have I seen those girls zooming up Marshall Street in their Mercedes convertibles? Some of them still get scholarships anyway. It seems like an 18 year old has every right to do business with anyone - but maybe they should have to pay for some or all of their tuition and board. And those athletes who aren't great enough to land an endorsement deal could still get their free ride.

There's still something that bothers me about Boeheim getting craploads of shoe money when he isn't even the one showcasing them, when a player can incur the wrath of the NCAA if he accepts a Big Mac or Bud from the wrong person. Tie it all to personal income, like any other student aid, no?
 
My biggest problem with the whole thing is that if you eliminate the NCAA, without replacing it with a governing institution you inevitably wipe out any reason for schools to compete in non-major sports. There is not enough of a market for sports outside the top 5 without the NCAA. Yes there are so many things wrong with the NCAA but if you force schools to go after recruits like free agents - you then force them to either pick and choose a few of the major sports or only offer scholarships and recruiting incentives for the major sports. You also then bring marketing and further celebrity status on campus.. papparazzi on campus .. etc etc.

If the NCAA goes down because of this, vs being replaced via pressure from the big conferences wanting to align under a different national banner, it will just destroy the other sports. Sure you can join clubs, but scholarships just won't be there for smaller sports. Lets not even begin to discuss smaller schools and their struggles. On the flip side this might ultimately turn major sports into a league system like european soccer where the leagues start at the amateur/county level and go from there. Of course I am merely speculating but the fallout could create utter chaos and the death of college athletics as we know them now.
 
I think the universities should create a contract stating that while the student athlete is enrolled in classes at that university, the university has the right to use their name, image, etc to promote the university. One student athlete is t above a program and each university had spend millions on creating their brand. If an Ed Obannon doesn't want to agree with this, go to Europe my friend!
 
dasher said:
that would be a disaster. I could see a papa john giving real big endorsements to ville players.
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True. Or FedEx to Memphis players. Larry Page (Google/Michigan), Under Armour to Maryland, Nike to Oregon etc.
 
dasher said:
that would be a disaster. I could see a papa john giving real big endorsements to ville players.
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Yeah, guys going to UK would be on commercials for Friends of Coal, OSU guys would be shilling for natural gas and wind ...

The business side of amateur athletics is such a cesspool. I think that it's awful that sports organizations have such tight control over player movement from highschool through the day that they retire. Imagine being a computer stud and being told that "yeah, you're exceptionally talented and I know you like Cupertino, CA and Apple's corporate philosophy, but you're going to work for IBM ... plus you have to work for free at a college of your choosing for at least two years. But at least you won't have to pay anything."

But at the same time, I like that revenue sports support the school's overall athletic programs. There's more to life than everybody only supporting something because it makes the most money. From Olympic sports to intramural athletics, they all serve a purpose to further the growth of young people as part of the college experience.

But I don't think this lawsuit goes anywhere. Universities typically hold patents on discoveries made at campus research departments (IIRC), this could be construed as something similar.
 
bozophobe said:
There's still something that bothers me about Boeheim getting craploads of shoe money when he isn't even the one showcasing them, when a player can incur the wrath of the NCAA if he accepts a Big Mac or Bud from the wrong person. Tie it all to personal income, like any other student aid, no?
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I get this sentiment, but at the same time, it isn't so much that CJ Fair in particular is seen wearing Nike's, its that the Syracuse program uses Nike equipment. That is the endorsement Nike is so far looking for and why JB gets the money. Ultimately I see this making sense because he wouldn't have his players using or wearing sub-par equipment as it could cost them injuries or wins. So it is JB and thus the Syracuse program endorsing that this product is good enough to win at an elite level with that Nike is buying.
 
The case will be thrown out, the Federal Government has too much invested in Tittle 9 to allow any other type of ruling. Without the money gained from football, and basketball all the other athletic scholarships would dry up.
 
Simply allow the kids to have spending money while they are in school (as part of their scholarship) and pay them a fixed amount for merchandising AFTER they graduate, or what would have been their graduation date if they leave early. Leave it at that and the problem is solved.

Let's be realistic, though. Not every player on every team has their jersey on sale. SU had what, four numbers for sale last season? Heck, they still sell #15 and #3 jerseys at various local shops. Most people buy #3 for GMAC even though his name isn't on it. Should GMAC be collecting $$$ from the U for that? It's a slippery slope.

Somewhere in the race for the almighty dollar players have forgotten that it is a privilege to play for a major D1 program. Not everyone gets that shot. Everyone dreams of the NBA, but many would not even have a chance of making the pros if it wasn't for college hoops and the opportunity that their school gave them. I'm of the belief that the athlete gets from college what they put in. Yes, the college makes money off of the players, but the player gets exposure, a fan base, and facilities in which to hone their craft. There is taking on both sides.

The solution is pretty simple. Let the superstars go pro after HS. Let the kids who need college ball play college ball. College ball is not corrupt. The system is corrupt. Change the rules and change the system. Clean it up. Don't pretend it's a minor league. Give a kid a chance to make the pros from HS. If it doesn't pan out, let him apply to a school within 2 years of his HS graduation date and give him 3 years of eligibility starting immediately. He can keep an agent afiliation but can receive no funds of any kind from the agent until his association with the school is complete. If he by chance has money from a contract he signed, he can keep that, but no more comes in.

If he leaves after a year, so be it. He forfeits the remainder of his 3 years. If he stays for the full three years, then give him a fourth year of tuition towards finishing a degree that is good for 5 years.

That sounds somewhat like baseball, right? I don't know enough about it other than once you're in school, you're there for three years.

Hopefully O'Bannon loses the case but it forces reform in the system. I hate the NCAA as much as anyone else, but it serves a purpose and needs to remain intact.
 
bozophobe said:
Yeah, but the context here is to find a non-disastrous compromise, not a spotless one.
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To me, this line of thinking is fundamentally flawed. Let's say you have a really nice sports car. You're 25 years old, and it's perfect. Then you get married, and have kids, so you weld on some extensions, and frame it in to be able to fit the little buggers. Then you decide you need to have more hauling capacity, so you add on a flatbed. What you end up with is not at all what it was intended to be: a car.

IMHO, people need to stop trying to figure out how to compromise and figure out different ways to "fix" college sports and the relationship of the student/athlete in the system. We really need to focus on the true mission here, namely allowing kids to use their athletic talents to get a quality education. We need to reinforce the idea that improving one's life begins with education. Help kids get on track to get a degree, and make a living outside of sports.

If a kid wants to play for pay, he should have those options -- in terms of a minor league system, not affiliated with collegiate athletics. If enough of those kids bomb out -- and they will -- an even stronger case can be made for the importance of education.

Yes, I know, it would make college sports less important. I'm okay with that. Colleges will make less money. Still okay. The most talented kids will go play for the pros. Yes, of course.

We have so many conflicting interests and objectives in college sports, and compromise is going to inevitably lead to an ugly vehicle that nobody wants.
 
If a university offers a full merit scholarship to a star academic performer, the school doesn't then restrict the student from working part-time as a tutor, starting a company, etc. The school offers a free ride because the institution benefits from having that high performer there and doesn't have a right to then prohibit the student from making extra money off his/her talent. It bothers me that athletics is an exception to this. Seems like a double standard. The school benefits tremendously from having that athlete on campus - how can they also prohibit athletes from personally making money from their fame and talents? Let the athletes do endorsements, autograph sessions, and the like to make money while they're in school. I realize schools with the richest boosters would have a huge advantage, but don't they already? As the article points out, the money now goes to coaches, facilities, and illegal under the table payments. Let's bring everything out in the open.

A set-up like this would particularly benefit players like Scoop who are hugely popular in college and never go on to make the giant money in the pros.
 
doesn't the kid know going in when he commits to college that the rules say he cant do certain things? don't most companies have some of the same limits.. i cant go around marketing myself using my company name. really how many companies hire HS kids with no experience and make them the top 3-4 highest paid person in the company. you want to make money playing sports this is the rule.. you want to make millions working at walmart you have a different set of rules.

there are roughly 200 kids on scholie at SU. give each 1000 a year to spend. thats 2 million per school . done solved..

many of those same kids already qualify for free pell grants worth more than that.

the real issue is that some higher ups want tens of thousands of dollars the system cant support that
 
EastCoast2 said:
True. Or FedEx to Memphis players. Larry Page (Google/Michigan), Under Armour to Maryland, Nike to Oregon etc.
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Or Foursquare (Dennis Crowley) for Syracuse, perhaps?
 
All4SU said:
To me, this line of thinking is fundamentally flawed. Let's say you have a really nice sports car. You're 25 years old, and it's perfect. Then you get married, and have kids, so you weld on some extensions, and frame it in to be able to fit the little buggers. Then you decide you need to have more hauling capacity, so you add on a flatbed. What you end up with is not at all what it was intended to be: a car.

IMHO, people need to stop trying to figure out how to compromise and figure out different ways to "fix" college sports and the relationship of the student/athlete in the system. We really need to focus on the true mission here, namely allowing kids to use their athletic talents to get a quality education. We need to reinforce the idea that improving one's life begins with education. Help kids get on track to get a degree, and make a living outside of sports.

If a kid wants to play for pay, he should have those options -- in terms of a minor league system, not affiliated with collegiate athletics. If enough of those kids bomb out -- and they will -- an even stronger case can be made for the importance of education.

Yes, I know, it would make college sports less important. I'm okay with that. Colleges will make less money. Still okay. The most talented kids will go play for the pros. Yes, of course.

We have so many conflicting interests and objectives in college sports, and compromise is going to inevitably lead to an ugly vehicle that nobody wants.
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I understand your concerns, and agree with some of your points. I'm not among those looking for a "fix," though. It is what it is. And I still fall into the crowd who feel a free education and meal card is enough in exchange for sports services rendered.

What I'm suggesting is that shoe contract/endorsement/copyright issue stuff is very, very different, and needs to be respected as well. Think back to the Fab Five over 20 years ago, for example. Your car analogy doesn't work here, really. Changing the fundamental type of vehicle wouldn't translate to changing the other thing (a college would still be a college - note most research & development happens at universities and not corporations, and it's still hard to buy Johns Hopkins stock). And watch Harold & Maude before trying that analogy, at least. :)
 
So, if the kids coming out of high school can negotiate sponsorship contracts like pros do, and FedEx or Papa Johns, etc. would make it unfair, perhaps the recruitment process should be replaced by a draft (like in the pros). :noidea:
 
I think if top players all went right to the pros and if athletic "factory" type schools formed their own big-money organization college sports would continue to exist and even thrive in some areas because it puts smaller cities and lesser states on the map. I think I might actually prefer it if we let them go so we wont' have to deal with one-and-doners,recruiting scandals, head cases, academic, disciplinary and legal problems and teams we can't compete with.

Let them go. Geromino!
 
upperdeck said:
doesn't the kid know going in when he commits to college that the rules say he cant do certain things? don't most companies have some of the same limits.. i cant go around marketing myself using my company name. really how many companies hire HS kids with no experience and make them the top 3-4 highest paid person in the company. you want to make money playing sports this is the rule.. you want to make millions working at walmart you have a different set of rules.

there are roughly 200 kids on scholie at SU. give each 1000 a year to spend. thats 2 million per school . done solved..

many of those same kids already qualify for free pell grants worth more than that.

the real issue is that some higher ups want tens of thousands of dollars the system cant support that
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The "don't kids know" argument is flawed for many reasons. First, they are kids. In fact, some are signing LOIs when they are still minors. I'm not sure how a contract signed by a minor or by a parent on behalf of a minor still binds the person after the age of maturity, but it seems to.

Second, know about the terms of an unconscionable contract doesn't mean that it is unchallengeable. In this case the are argument would be that there is no other equivalent choice out there and a group of entities have worked together to limit opportunities for the group. Not sure forcing kids to leave the country would meet the smell test of having other opportunities. College, in football and basketball, has become essentially the only real minor leagues out there.
 
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