Old Age & New Age Approach

[SUFan44]

Boeheim's comments about his not really caring about off the court stuff and calling all of the bonding stuff "nonsense" really had me thinking.

Kids these days are different than they were 20 years ago. Even 10 years ago, to be honest.

They need much more encouragement, much more positive reinforcement and a cohesiveness is much more important now than it may have been 20 years ago.

The cohesion is a much bigger part now, in my opinion, because back in the day, guys would play with other guys they didn't like because they could handle it. They'd play just as hard with guys that they hated as guys that they liked, just because that was the right thing to do.

Now adays, kids are different. They are always on social media, internalize things and do things that are unfathomable (at least to me). Not playing hard or not playing together due to off-court issues, to me, is ridiculous. You play as hard as you can and you play the right way because that's just what you do.

The Frank Howard situation is a perfect example of why cohesion and team dynamic is much more important now than it was.

I have worked in college athletics for a long time and I have seen these team dynamics help build championship-winning programs - mostly on the women's side of things. I'd say men's teams have typically not paid much attention to this, but I would hope with the evolving nature of kids, they start paying attention.

Talent wins games as it usually always does, but cohesion and team dynamic - if it's not right - can lose games, too.

 

[bballbeadle]

From my perspective, it seems as if many coaches try to treat their teams like they are army recruits in boot camp. Somehow, cohesion and team spirit is built by being demoralized, told you are no good, you have no will other than your sergeant's, etc. Now, what works in boot camp doesn't necessarily work for sports teams. There are differences between the two types of groups; our guys are not soldiers going into battle for their countries! I think coaches can use the metaphor of "battle," then act as if their primary function is to pump players up through intimidation, fear, anger. What's weird to me is that this works at all. I would say every single coach uses these tactics in part.

It does seem inescapably true that, as a Nobel Laureate wrote, "the times, they are a-changing." And people change with them. We can shake our heads and wish for the good old days, but that won't make bygone days magically appear in the present. I do think that our coach calling "talking about things" "nonsense" is an old-fashioned attitude.

One of the posters said that Boeheim did a fist pump on two separate occasions when we did something right. He was tactful and thoughtful in the press conference. He did not throw Howard under the bus. This is the Coach I like to see! The strategic change he made (playing Gillon 39 minutes) is better than any kind of tough talk. Actions speak much louder than angry words.

 

[Brooky03]

This has been said by older generations about younger generations probably since the dawn of man on this earth. Parents/elders/young adults almost always think the youngest generation is softer than they were as kids. I think you have to look at the individuals, not lump a group together and say they're one way or the other. Some kids need support to do well, some don't. Kids can be as individualistic or team-oriented as they've ever been.

 

[Zepharus]

This has been said by older generations about younger generations probably since the dawn of man on this earth. Parents/elders/young adults almost always think the youngest generation is softer than they were as kids. I think you have to look at the individuals, not lump a group together and say they're one way or the other. Some kids need support to do well, some don't. Kids can be as individualistic or team-oriented as they've ever been.

Go out , on the street and observe 10 "average" Millennials and tell me if you still would like to stand behind your post I work with them everyday. They are playing a different game in life than other generations and its not really debatable. I'm sure than Many are hard working , upstanding people but the majority are most decidedly something else.

 

[SUFan44]

This has been said by older generations about younger generations probably since the dawn of man on this earth. Parents/elders/young adults almost always think the youngest generation is softer than they were as kids. I think you have to look at the individuals, not lump a group together and say they're one way or the other. Some kids need support to do well, some don't. Kids can be as individualistic or team-oriented as they've ever been.

I don't necessarily disagree that there are some individuals that still work hard and aren't soft - I think the trend is that more kids now are in need of being coddled due to upbringing. This is a drastic generalization but I think it's mostly true. I also think the instant gratification society that social media and "likes/retweets" has brought with it people who need to get positive feedback more often. Right or wrong, its more prevalent now than in the past IMO.

 

[TheGov3304]

Go out , on the street and observe 10 "average" Millennials and tell me if you still would like to stand behind your post I work with them everyday. They are playing a different game in life than other generations and its not really debatable. I'm sure than Many are hard working , upstanding people but the majority are most decidedly something else.

Man, I have seen that from the older generations as well. Typical generalization.....

 

[tbonezone]

that "off the court " stuff has cost JB and this program quite a few wins .

 

[TheGov3304]

that "off the court " stuff has cost JB and this program quite a few wins .

Right, he never won those games

 

[Brooky03]

Go out , on the street and observe 10 "average" Millennials and tell me if you still would like to stand behind your post I work with them everyday. They are playing a different game in life than other generations and its not really debatable. I'm sure than Many are hard working , upstanding people but the majority are most decidedly something else.

I don't want to derail the thread because OP did have a good message, outside of the generalizations about kids these days, but your anecdotal experiences and assertion that most Millenials are this or that doesn't mean much, and it certainly is debatable. This is far from being the first generation to have self-centered, whiny, buttholes in its population. They don't represent the majority and the number hasn't increased significantly from the generation before them or the generation before that, etc.

You were probably a butthole kid. I was probably a butthole kid. Kids tend to be buttholes.

 

[SBU72]

Excuse me for being an old foggy, but that is what when you give out participation trophies. Kids expect constant positive reinforcement. And instance gratification. Reward the good things. Don't tell them "that's alright, you'll do better next time" all the time.

 

[tbonezone]

million dollar a year job and you've got to keep your thumb on 7- 10 teenagers. is that asking too much ?

 

[TheGov3304]

million dollar a year job and you've got to keep your thumb on 7- 10 teenagers. is that asking too much ?

Too*, and yes. He is a basketball coach not a babysitter. These are grown adults by law in this country.

 

[TheGov3304]

Excuse me for being an old foggy, but that is what when you give out participation trophies. Kids expect constant positive reinforcement. And instance gratification. Reward the good things. Don't tell them "that's alright, you'll do better next time" all the time.

The whole participation trophy argument is overrated just like Gerry's shirt says in the picture to the left.

 

[tbonezone]

my house .my rules. there's the door. that's how i was raised.

 

[Brooky03]

Excuse me for being an old foggy, but that is what when you give out participation trophies. Kids expect constant positive reinforcement. And instance gratification. Reward the good things. Don't tell them "that's alright, you'll do better next time" all the time.

Why do participation trophies come up every time this topic is discussed? What do they have to do with anything? Kids that get participation trophies (usually ribbons) aren't running around with the trophy/ribbon yelling with excitement that they did something great. They get the ribbon/trophy, throw it in their room somewhere and forget about it. They don't cry if they don't get a ribbon.

 

[SBU72]

my house .my rules. there's the door. that's how i was raised.

but they don't live in his house. Yes they "work" for him but he can't be in their dorms. Do scholarship kids even have curfews now days?

 

[TheGov3304]

but they don't live in his house. Yes they "work" for him but he can't be in their dorms. Do scholarship kids even have curfews now days?

Doubtful that they would have a curfew. Even if so, who is going to check on this? Jim isn't going to leave his house in the dead of winter in CNY to check on/tuck in legal adults that can make their own decisions.

 

[tbonezone]

if my million dollar paycheck is tied to your contracted performance then yes do you live in my house. and welcome to my rules !

 

[TheGov3304]

Why do participation trophies come up every time this topic is discussed? What do they have to do with anything? Kids that get participation trophies (usually ribbons) aren't running around with the trophy/ribbon yelling with excitement that they did something great. They get the ribbon/trophy, throw it in their room somewhere and forget about it. They don't cry if they don't get a ribbon.

Everyone heard that James Harrison story about making his children "men" by throwing away trophies. In reality, you just come off as a hard ass. Now it has become a great argument by older generations to use vs millennials to prove how they weren't given anything and millennials don't want to work etc etc etc etc etc

 

[SUFan44]

Why do participation trophies come up every time this topic is discussed? What do they have to do with anything? Kids that get participation trophies (usually ribbons) aren't running around with the trophy/ribbon yelling with excitement that they did something great. They get the ribbon/trophy, throw it in their room somewhere and forget about it. They don't cry if they don't get a ribbon.

Ummm... Yes, some do. And I think the "some" is growing due to the coddling of kids by parents who want to be their friends rather than be disciplinarians or good parents.

Again, not all - but in my opinion and in my experience, the number is growing. (And I'm not that old. '03 grad.)

 

[cuseinseattle]

million dollar a year job and you've got to keep your thumb on 7- 10 teenagers. is that asking too much ?

I've never understood the logic behind this. Why are coaches expected to know what kids are doing all hours of the day. When I was in college if I went out at night and got drunk and crashed my car they wouldn't call my chemistry teacher and ask him why he didn't stop me. It seems totally illogical.

 

[Brooky03]

Ummm... Yes, some do. And I think the "some" is growing due to the coddling of kids by parents who want to be their friends rather than be disciplinarians or good parents.

Again, not all - but in my opinion and in my experience, the number is growing. (And I'm not that old. '03 grad.)

Then I don't see the same things you do.

 

[cuseinseattle]

that "off the court " stuff has cost JB and this program quite a few wins .

I know why didn't Boeheim go with Terrance Roberts up to the YMCA in his beat up car in the middle of winter to make sure he wasn't handed 300 bucks for mentoring kids and working. Makes total sense. Really reasonable. Way to punish the bad guys NCAA.

 

[TheGov3304]

I've never understood the logic behind this. Why are coaches expected to know what kids are doing all hours of the day. When I was in college if I went out at night and got drunk and crashed my car they wouldn't call my chemistry teacher and ask him why he didn't stop me. It seems totally illogical.

Classic example

 

[tbonezone]

parents be all "helicopter " like herman harried. yet how's the hands off approach working for the cuse ? that whole sanction stain that don't wash off. .