Oline

[shu 49]

I really feel moving our oline around screwed us today. Bradford has been playing pretty good and unless he is hurt, it killed our cohesiveness. Ellis can run block but is not good at pass blocking. Bradford did really well pass blocking which is what I thought killed us today. Maybe it’s just me.

 

[hoopsupstate]

No matter who’s playing, they are not good. It’s our continuing major problem. 2018 is the only above average offensive line we’ve had and it’s a big reason we won ten games.

 

[GoSU96]

No matter who’s playing, they are not good. It’s our continuing major problem. 2018 is the only above average offensive line we’ve had and it’s a big reason we won ten games.

That line got dominated by ND, just like this one did against Clemson. 2018 was a better starting group. Not a tremendous drop off. These guys are good enough to end up 10-3 this year.

 

[GoSU96]

If the program wants to keep improving this is the unit that needs focus.

 

[SmilinBob]

That line got dominated by ND, just like this one did against Clemson. 2018 was a better starting group. Not a tremendous drop off. These guys are good enough to end up 10-3 this year.

IFF Shrader can remain healthy and if not this offense will be much like all the teams SU plays after FSU so all the games will be a toss up.

 

[SoBristol]

Clemson is a tough measuring stick for our OL.

On a positive note, consider the depth we have going forward. Ellis, More, Joe Cruz, and Ilaoa as reserves or in the rotation. Not a dominating unit but at least depth is not the concern as in recent seasons.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I think they’ve been OK so far great against Purdue. Clemsons DL is always loaded. Need a good game against UNC bc FSU will be a tough one.

 

[PhatOrange]

I really feel moving our oline around screwed us today. Bradford has been playing pretty good and unless he is hurt, it killed our cohesiveness. Ellis can run block but is not good at pass blocking. Bradford did really well pass blocking which is what I thought killed us today. Maybe it’s just me.

I wasn’t sure why they took out Bradford either. I have to go back and watch. I thought he was doing OK. Petry on the other hand got abused early and that was a freshman defensive end. I thought Ellis really struggled. Other people said they thought he played well, I must’ve been watching a different game.

 

[Newhouser]

Not sure they have proven anything either way yet. Seemed solid in the easy games. Looked less than stellar against Clemson which is nothing to be shocked at. Let's see how they hold up against the other mid-level teams in the league - 9-3 is very doable with this schedule. They need to be good to get it done.

 

[Dcuse]

I wasn’t sure why they took out Bradford either. I have to go back and watch. I thought he was doing OK. Petry on the other hand got abused early and that was a freshman defensive end. I thought Ellis really struggled. Other people said they thought he played well, I must’ve been watching a different game.

Bradford was " Below very poor" on his pass blocking PFF. That just might have been why he was pulled. It sounds like a category they just made up for Bradford's performance on Saturday.

 

[MikeSU02]

Clemson is a tough measuring stick for our OL.

On a positive note, consider the depth we have going forward. Ellis, More, Joe Cruz, and Ilaoa as reserves or in the rotation. Not a dominating unit but at least depth is not the concern as in recent seasons.

I'm starting to think a lot of the depth we had isn't depth.

We just need a solid starting five that can stay healthy and 1-2 serviceable backups that won't wreck us.

 

[SUinNWE]

Honestly, the o-line play has been a significant issue starting with Colgate. I remember watching the game, and seeing the kind of pressure their d-line was getting on Shrader. This issue was largely hidden with a weak out of conference schedule and shrader's mobility. I think this is a very good team but if Syracuse only wins 6ish games, it'll be because of this, if not for injuries. I worry this weakness is going to continue to get exposed in conference play.

 

[SoBristol]

I'm starting to think a lot of the depth we had isn't depth.

We just need a solid starting five that can stay healthy and 1-2 serviceable backups that won't wreck us.

So having a solid five is ideal, but we don’t have the ideal quality in that five.
I think we have found that guys like Petry and Bradford can compete - though none of our starters will be up for ACC honors. Maybe not much separation between the starters and the “serviceable backups”?

 

[RICuse44]

I wasn’t sure why they took out Bradford either. I have to go back and watch. I thought he was doing OK. Petry on the other hand got abused early and that was a freshman defensive end. I thought Ellis really struggled. Other people said they thought he played well, I must’ve been watching a different game.

I’ve like Bradford this year also but he was not ok in the first quarter. I think it got a little better when ellis went in which shows you how bad it was

 

[MikeSU02]

So having a solid five is ideal, but we don’t have the ideal quality in that five.
I think we have found that guys like Petry and Bradford can compete - though none of our starters will be up for ACC honors. Maybe not much separation between the starters and the “serviceable backups”?

My take is that the OL is a position group is the whole can be better than the sum of its parts, but 1) we haven't had consistency on the line due to injuries or guys realizing assumed otential and 2) I'm not as bullish on our overall OL talent for the year as some others.

I think if you aren't even getting a single OL for honorable mention for all conference, just one, I think that's rough in this conference.

You're prob right that the guys that can be in the rotation vs the starters are basically on the same playing field. I don't know what the answer is. Again, hopefully just having consistent guys and healthy guys for the last five games will help.

But at WR, TE and OL, we are not good enough. Maybe this year it won't matter because the last five teams we play aren't world beaters. I thought we would go 0-3 or 1-2 in this stretch anyway, but my worry isn't about this stretch, it's the issues that may be corrosive to the final five games where I thought we would be 4-1 or 3-2.

 

[rrlbees]

Bradford was " Below very poor" on his pass blocking PFF. That just might have been why he was pulled. It sounds like a category they just made up for Bradford's performance on Saturday.

Lol. Those were my words. Grading in the 30’s is considered very poor and he was below that. So I said below very poor. He’s been pretty decent this year but Saturday he was totally outmatched. Maybe he had a 5 star future pro across from him? I don’t know. But Ellis coming in for him I think was to get Bleich at RG and taking on whomever was abusing Bradford. Bleich has been our best OL this year, both pass and run blocking.

 

[Dcuse]

Lol. Those were my words. Grading in the 30’s is considered very poor and he was below that. So I said below very poor. He’s been pretty decent this year but Saturday he was totally outmatched. Maybe he had a 5 star future pro across from him? I don’t know. But Ellis coming in for him I think was to get Bleich at RG and taking on whomever was abusing Bradford. Bleich has been our best OL this year, both pass and run blocking.

Bleich has exceeded my expectations by far. Mostly because I was convinced he would suffer some injury walking outside his apartment door at some point. I pray he stays injury free the rest of the year as he has been terrific.

 

[GoSU96]

If the program wants to keep improving this is the unit that needs focus.

And I mean spending money and roster spots. And out placing kids that aren’t going to cut it, help them find a landing spot.

 

[007]

And I mean spending money and roster spots. And out playing kids that aren’t going to cut it, help them find a landing spot.

Without question. They need to continue to devote significant recruiting capital to the OL - NIL, portal, HS recruits, and roster spots.

To a lesser degree, I think the same holds true for the DL. I know that take will get pushback. I openly acknowledge that the 3-3-5 and Rocky mitigate some to much of the concern.

 

[RF2044]

My take is that the OL is a position group is the whole can be better than the sum of its parts, but 1) we haven't had consistency on the line due to injuries or guys realizing assumed otential and 2) I'm not as bullish on our overall OL talent for the year as some others.

I think if you aren't even getting a single OL for honorable mention for all conference, just one, I think that's rough in this conference.

You're prob right that the guys that can be in the rotation vs the starters are basically on the same playing field. I don't know what the answer is. Again, hopefully just having consistent guys and healthy guys for the last five games will help.

But at WR, TE and OL, we are not good enough. Maybe this year it won't matter because the last five teams we play aren't world beaters. I thought we would go 0-3 or 1-2 in this stretch anyway, but my worry isn't about this stretch, it's the issues that may be corrosive to the final five games where I thought we would be 4-1 or 3-2.

I agree 100% with your final paragraph. Unlike on the defense, where all positional units have been upgraded to ACC-caliber talent throughout the two-deep, on offense OL, TE, and WR aren't where they need to be.

I do want to note [and this isn't directed at you specifically, MikeSU02] that we're down several linemen who were projected to be starters. Ellis had started the previous 1.5 seasons. More, and Wohlabaugh were emerging from camp on the 1st team OL, and More didn't play until Q4 of the 5th game, and Wohlabaugh suffered a season ending injury in the 2nd game.

That's a lot to overcome -- ESPECIALLY for a team that hasn't traditionally fielded quality OL units. The depth that people are questioning is comprised of a pair of guys who should be on the second unit, but who were called upon to step into a much bigger role due to injuries. They'd performed admirably -- not great, but serviceable -- up to this point, but no surprise they got dominated by Clemson.

We just have to hope that More is better in some capacity than either Bradford or Petry [whoever he's subbing for], and that Ellis can get into better shape. We need the reinforcements.

But if Bradford / Petry [and especially Petry] hadn't been ready... my god, can you imagine how the season would have already been derailed?

Again, Mike -- not directed at you -- just thinking out loud, for perspective on how the OL has performed.

 

[RF2044]

Without question. They need to continue to devote significant recruiting capital to the OL - NIL, portal, HS recruits, and roster spots.

To a lesser degree, I think the same holds true for the DL. I know that take will get pushback. I openly acknowledge that the 3-3-5 and Rocky mitigate some to much of the concern.

I don't think it should get pushback. Everyone saw what a difference it was when the Bama transfer got some extended PT inside, instead of a 267 pound DT. I love our guys, but it's tougher to run against bigger / athletic guys than it is against smaller / athletic guys.

Would love to land another player or two like Ingraham to an already formidable DT unit.

But OL? Yeah, we should be mining the transfer portal hard. We need 3 more Wohlabaugh's.

Edit -- would also be looking at JUCOs again. Maybe Reed's program has another player or two who is P5 caliber.

 

[SoBristol]

And I mean spending money and roster spots. And out playing kids that aren’t going to cut it, help them find a landing spot.

Not sure who you mean. We have had 4 transfers starting - Bleich, Reed, Bradford, Petry, and Wohlabaugh Jr. was a starter until injured. More might work in. So, that would be 6 roster spots. The true frosh seem to have size and potential. Possibly we need to land better quality when we hit the portal?

Could say that for most of our units, except LB.

 

[RF2044]

Just posing this question to the group: any insight about why Joe Cruz hasn't gotten any looks at RT?

 

[MikeSU02]

I agree 100% with your final paragraph. Unlike on the defense, where all positional units have been upgraded to ACC-caliber talent throughout the two-deep, on offense OL, TE, and WR aren't where they need to be.

I do want to note [and this isn't directed at you specifically, MikeSU02] that we're down several linemen who were projected to be starters. Ellis had started the previous 1.5 seasons. More, and Wohlabaugh were emerging from camp on the 1st team OL, and More didn't play until Q4 of the 5th game, and Wohlabaugh suffered a season ending injury in the 2nd game.

That's a lot to overcome -- ESPECIALLY for a team that hasn't traditionally fielded quality OL units. The depth that people are questioning is comprised of a pair of guys who should be on the second unit, but who were called upon to step into a much bigger role due to injuries. They'd performed admirably -- not great, but serviceable -- up to this point, but no surprise they got dominated by Clemson.

We just have to hope that More is better in some capacity than either Bradford or Petry [whoever he's subbing for], and that Ellis can get into better shape. We need the reinforcements.

But if Bradford / Petry [and especially Petry] hadn't been ready... my god, can you imagine how the season would have already been derailed?

Again, Mike -- not directed at you -- just thinking out loud, for perspective on how the OL has performed.

All fair. My general goal is to be set for the final five run. If we beat UNC this week, we are looking at a very successful season being in our grasps.

I'm just worried about landing the plane to be ready for that final five. It's been such a revolving door and these next two games... I can see a few more guys getting dinged up. We're playing some dudes these next two weeks.

Also, I don't take any commentary personally (unless you aren't a fan of the Oakdale Mall in Johnson City). Appreciate you calling that out, but I'm all good! Appreciate the kindness, though.

 

[GoSU96]

Without question. They need to continue to devote significant recruiting capital to the OL - NIL, portal, HS recruits, and roster spots.

To a lesser degree, I think the same holds true for the DL. I know that take will get pushback. I openly acknowledge that the 3-3-5 and Rocky mitigate some to much of the concern.

I think the talent level and class balance is good. But you always want to get better.