On recruiting

[CIL]

Have heard from a someone close to the game that this year's class is the best and deepest Syracuse has had in over a decade. Best quote I got was along the lines of "there are no throw aways in this class. Every kid can play at this level." That being said, a lot of these kids may not be ready to play right away, but they do have the speed and athleticism to make an impact down the line.

It speaks volumes that kids like Whitehurt, Whigham, and Owens were all state players in FL (and all were contacted by major BCS schools about opening up their recruitment). Even a supposed throw in like Lewis dominated this year and also had a few BCS schools sniff around.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

Thanks for the update CIL, definitely agree with your source's thoughts on the depth of the class.

 

[Whitey23]

Are they playmakers?

 

[007]

Have heard from a someone close to the game that this year's class is the best and deepest Syracuse has had in over a decade. Best quote I got was along the lines of "there are no throw aways in this class. Every kid can play at this level." That being said, a lot of these kids may not be ready to play right away, but they do have the speed and athleticism to make an impact down the line.

It speaks volumes that kids like Whitehurt, Whigham, and Owens were all state players in FL (and all were contacted by major BCS schools about opening up their recruitment). Even a supposed throw in like Lewis dominated this year and also had a few BCS schools sniff around.

That would be great, CIL - hope your "someone" is dead on. We need to catch some lightning in a bottle.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Have heard from a someone close to the game that this year's class is the best and deepest Syracuse has had in over a decade. Best quote I got was along the lines of "there are no throw aways in this class. Every kid can play at this level." That being said, a lot of these kids may not be ready to play right away, but they do have the speed and athleticism to make an impact down the line.

It speaks volumes that kids like Whitehurt, Whigham, and Owens were all state players in FL (and all were contacted by major BCS schools about opening up their recruitment). Even a supposed throw in like Lewis dominated this year and also had a few BCS schools sniff around.

Do you think we will have any last second surprises?

 

[bnoro]

If we can add Manley, Morgan, and Thomason this will be an excellent class for us.

 

[GoSU96]

Have heard from a someone close to the game that this year's class is the best and deepest Syracuse has had in over a decade. Best quote I got was along the lines of "there are no throw aways in this class. Every kid can play at this level." That being said, a lot of these kids may not be ready to play right away, but they do have the speed and athleticism to make an impact down the line.

It speaks volumes that kids like Whitehurt, Whigham, and Owens were all state players in FL (and all were contacted by major BCS schools about opening up their recruitment). Even a supposed throw in like Lewis dominated this year and also had a few BCS schools sniff around.

Development school, one of the next steps in the program is not having to play kids who aren't ready yet.

The staff feels pretty good about this class, and much better about the where they are positioned for the next.

 

[rrlbees]

Hope you're right CIL but someone (not saying you) said almost the exact same thing last year. Of course we can't judge last year yet as it is too soon.

 

[GoSU96]

Hope you're right CIL but someone (not saying you) said almost the exact same thing last year. Of course we can't judge last year yet as it is too soon.

Obviously the statements aren't mutually exclusive.

And I hope that's the feeling this time next year.

 

[CIL]

Hope you're right CIL but someone (not saying you) said almost the exact same thing last year. Of course we can't judge last year yet as it is too soon.

As you wrote, it is way too early to judge last year's class, and as Go wrote they aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[cayugacuse]

Like to be a glass half full type of guy but the class is ranked right about where it usually is (53 on Scout) and we missed on most of our early offers to the 4 & 5 star guys...the TE's, OL, DT, DE's ect as has been the case. I'm sure they will make some good players out of these guys and I will be rooting for them but I have seen no improvement from recent classes at all. Helps that we will probably take another full class of 25...bound to find a few players in that large group. We may have to do really well next year as far as quality goes because I don't think we will be able to bring in another large class unless we have a mass exodus of players.

 

[rrlbees]

As you wrote, it is way too early to judge last year's class, and as Go wrote they aren't mutually exclusive.

I hope so. "On paper", which I know doesn't mean everything, this class like last years isn't any different than most the last decade. We always seem to be around 50 which means not great but not horrible.

 

[OrangeBlood]

I actually really like this class and last class. I think they are big, fast and athletic. Also very importantly, they seem to be good character kids. We will see how this turns out for us, but I like the direction. We are also in great position for 2013. I have said earlier that I am not optimistic for 2012 but very much so for 2013 and 2014.

 

[CIL]

I could give two shits less about "paper" rankings. Going back three years ago Ohio St had the best class, they were awful this year. UCLA was fifth, North Carolina was sixth (and this wasn't the Austin, Little class), Texas seventh, and Tennessee eighth. Yes, LSU and Bama were two and three, but there as many hits as misses in this thing. Oklahoma ST was 45 (Blackmon a 3 star the year before), Kansas St 112, Boise 60, Houston 58, Baylor 44.

What I hope this class provides is speed, speed, and more speed. It already apparent to me that the younger crop of players on the defensive side of the ball are certainly athletic, although raw. I hope that the younger guys on offense who we have yet to see are the same.

 

[SUFan44]

I could give two shits less about "paper" rankings. Going back three years ago Ohio St had the best class, they were awful this year. UCLA was fifth, North Carolina was sixth (and this wasn't the Austin, Little class), Texas seventh, and Tennessee eighth. Yes, LSU and Bama were two and three, but there as many hits as misses in this thing. Oklahoma ST was 45 (Blackmon a 3 star the year before), Kansas St 112, Boise 60, Houston 58, Baylor 44.

What I hope this class provides is speed, speed, and more speed. It already apparent to me that the younger crop of players on the defensive side of the ball are certainly athletic, although raw. I hope that the younger guys on offense who we have yet to see are the same.

Agreed. Was going to say that Boise State has never been in the Top 30 in recruiting rankings yet competes nationally.

There are so many football players in different areas that it is IMPOSSIBLE to rate them all -- let alone have a rating system that ranks them relative to others in their own class.

Basketball is a little bit easier -- there are less players, and 80-90% of the D1 players in the country play the summer circuit. Football is a completely different animal.

This isn't even accounting for the fact that if a player commits early to a relative powerhouse (SEC, B12, etc.), their ranking is almost automatically higher than anyone with a Syracuse offer.

"Paper" rankings mean next to nothing. The fact that bigger and more established programs are interested in the kids we are recruiting is definitely a positive step. I hope we're able to keep everyone, and more importantly allow them to develop and play them when they're ready.

 

[CIL]

Not to hijack my own thread, but I wanted to elaborate a bit on why correctly applying stars to football players is such a difficult task to accomplish. Unlike basketball, there is no AAU circut for football. You rarely get the opportunity to see the best go head to head ala Lenny Cooke vs LeBron or Melo vs. LeBron.

The camp circut, seven on seven tourneys, and combines don't offer much that much more. First, the prospects aren't in pads. One on one passing drills only help so much, especially the db's that aren't really taught proper technique and footwork (which way to open your hips, a baseball turn on a post corner, etc). Qb's aren't pressured, LB's aren't really tackling, etc. They can uncover some measurables or lack there of, give the coaches a closer eye to see the fluidity of kids, etc. Half the kids in the WPAIL where I live train year round to get better combine metrics.

This is further made difficult by projecting how much stronger, faster, and agile a kid is going to get. Is this young man dominating because he is physically stronger than the competition (Jarron Jones, half the kids Lichty assigns 4 stars that go to Pitt)? Can this kid absorb a play book, learn to recognize defensive or offensive fronts, etc.

It's a damn difficult task to accomplish, regardless of stars assigned.

 

[OttoForLife]

... and much better about the where they are positioned for the next.

Can you/someone elaborate on what this actually means? I presume it means they are ahead in terms of identifying the players they want at the positions they feel are needs and are communicating their interest to the prospects. Yes, or is there a chance this means they think they have some kids offered for '13 who could commit pretty soon after '12's LOI day?

 

[bnoro]

Can you/someone elaborate on what this actually means? I presume it means they are ahead in terms of identifying the players they want at the positions they feel are needs and are communicating their interest to the prospects. Yes, or is there a chance this means they think they have some kids offered for '13 who could commit pretty soon after '12's LOI day?

They've already identified top targets, built relationships, and feel good about where we stand. The last few years we have been late to build relationships with some targets.

 

[PhatOrange]

and we missed on most of our early offers to the 4 & 5 star guys...the TE's, OL, DT, DE's ect as has been the case.

I'm not sure how accurate this is. It's accurate in a sense that we missed on guys like Perkins, Pharaoh Brown, Jarron Jones etc., but when you look at 'early offers', 90% of our class had very early offers - look at the dates of when they committed. While these kids might not be 4 and 5 stars because rivals or scout doesn't say they are, but these kids are all A List recruits in the eyes of the staff. To date we have not moved on to the b list.

 

[007]

I'm not sure how accurate this is. It's accurate in a sense that we missed on guys like Perkins, Pharaoh Brown, Jarron Jones etc., but when you look at 'early offers', 90% of our class had very early offers - look at the dates of when they committed. While these kids might not be 4 and 5 stars because rivals or scout doesn't say they are, but these kids are all A List recruits in the eyes of the staff. To date we have not moved on to the b list.

Hope so...was wondering about Ben Barrett. I know he committed very early (1/11), and that his father is a trustee at SU. To be clear, I am not casting aspersions on Ben, just wondering if others believe he will be a contributor. He had a good career at CBA - just not a lot of talk about him dominating competition in the local area.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

Hope so...was wondering about Ben Barrett. I know he committed very early (1/11), and that his father is a trustee at SU. To be clear, I am not casting aspersions on Ben, just wondering if others believe he will be a contributor. He had a good career at CBA - just not a lot of talk about him dominating competition in the local area.

What is the deal with this by the way? Shouldn't he be getting a free ride, and thus not counting against the scholarship count?

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

is he J Pat Barret's son?

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

is he J Pat Barret's son?

I looked it up and yes he is. Not someone you want to piss off. Give the kid a scholarship and never mention it again.

 

[phil77]

I am really high on a couple of our players coming in and a couple of players from last class. I really like the speed we are recruiting on the defensive side of the ball could be a very special unit in a couple of years if the players play they way I think they will on that side of the ball.

I think we will really enjoy what Morris brings to the table on the offensive side of the ball. But the offensive side of the ball is my biggest concern still. I am not sure about the WR's we have besides Lemon. I hope one of them surprises me but I have my concerns. I also have my concerns about the QB positions. But I will not bring those into this thread because we don't need another Ryan sucks or Ryan is great thread.

All in all I am still concerned about the players coming in on the offensive side of the ball outside of the RB and TE positions but I have a strong feeling that we are building a real treat on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[cayugacuse]

I'm not sure how accurate this is. It's accurate in a sense that we missed on guys like Perkins, Pharaoh Brown, Jarron Jones etc., but when you look at 'early offers', 90% of our class had very early offers - look at the dates of when they committed. While these kids might not be 4 and 5 stars because rivals or scout doesn't say they are, but these kids are all A List recruits in the eyes of the staff. To date we have not moved on to the b list.

I probably didn't word that carefully enough as few schools in football get most of their targets to commit as they target hundreds of kids. My sense is that we have lowered the bar because because the kids from our old prime areas don't give us serious consideration and we settle for the best we can find. There are quite a few here that feel recruiting is going fine here and God bless you but I'm not in your camp. Spread your 40-50 ish ranked classes out over a 5 year old roster and we should be spitting out W-L records reflecting somewhere in that ballpark. One winning record in recent years in a pretty week league show me either we lack talent or coaching.