On recruiting

[GoSU96]

They've already identified top targets, built relationships, and feel good about where we stand. The last few years we have been late to build relationships with some targets.

Another huge thing is that doors to schools that have been shut are opening up. The brand had been so damaged that coaches they had relationships with wouldn't let the staff talk to their top end players.

 

[orangenauburn]

Another huge thing is that doors to schools that have been shut are opening up. The brand had been so damaged that coaches they had relationships with wouldn't let the staff talk to their top end players.

is one of the areas this occurred south of NYC and East of Philadelphia? (NJ)

 

[MikeSU02]

Have heard from a someone close to the game that this year's class is the best and deepest Syracuse has had in over a decade. Best quote I got was along the lines of "there are no throw aways in this class. Every kid can play at this level." That being said, a lot of these kids may not be ready to play right away, but they do have the speed and athleticism to make an impact down the line.

It speaks volumes that kids like Whitehurt, Whigham, and Owens were all state players in FL (and all were contacted by major BCS schools about opening up their recruitment). Even a supposed throw in like Lewis dominated this year and also had a few BCS schools sniff around.

Put me firmly in the camp of believing it when I see it.

I always enjoy your posts CiL, but I've seen this song and dance before. Until it's proven on the field, I'm going with the glass half empty.

I'll root like heck for this team and near the beginning of the season I'll convince myself that we can go undefeated like I do every year, but right now, I don't believe for a second that this incoming class is the best in over a decade and every kid can play at this level. Just cannot do it.

 

[rrlbees]

I could give two shits less about "paper" rankings. Going back three years ago Ohio St had the best class, they were awful this year. UCLA was fifth, North Carolina was sixth (and this wasn't the Austin, Little class), Texas seventh, and Tennessee eighth. Yes, LSU and Bama were two and three, but there as many hits as misses in this thing. Oklahoma ST was 45 (Blackmon a 3 star the year before), Kansas St 112, Boise 60, Houston 58, Baylor 44.

What I hope this class provides is speed, speed, and more speed. It already apparent to me that the younger crop of players on the defensive side of the ball are certainly athletic, although raw. I hope that the younger guys on offense who we have yet to see are the same.

Paper and stars is never the end all. But over a period of time and a cross section of players it certainly plays a role in evaluating a class. Why do we pine for the 4-5 star players them? Anyone can name 4-5 star players that flame out or a 2 star who becomes a stud. Coaching of that potential in a class plays a role too, but this class looks like so many others. Only time will tell.

 

[rrlbees]

Another huge thing is that doors to schools that have been shut are opening up. The brand had been so damaged that coaches they had relationships with wouldn't let the staff talk to their top end players.

Who closed those doors and where are you speaking? NJ by any chance?

 

[BlazeOrange]

What is the deal with this by the way? Shouldn't he be getting a free ride, and thus not counting against the scholarship count?

If he's eligible for some sort of free tuition/"legacy scholarship" it's probably a similiar situation to multi-sport athletes, where a football/track players scholarship will count vs. football even if they are Olympic caliber sprinters but scout team receivers. Don't know for sure but I'd guess that academic scholarships run the same way, or else you'd see a ton of them on SEC teams.

 

[PhatOrange]

What is the deal with this by the way? Shouldn't he be getting a free ride, and thus not counting against the scholarship count?

I seem to recall that Ben Barrett is a weight room junkie and is pretty physical. I believe he benches more than 300lbs, squats a lot and has long arms. Also was told he's performed pretty well at a Syracuse football camp. I think he's going to end up playing tackle.

I think he can play and don't believe this was a token offer by any means.

 

[orangepassion]

CIL, I hope you're right, but I feel we hear this every year, along with the accompanying silent committs and guys we're going to flip. Seems like a have few nice players, but very few guys coming in who lots of schools were coming after and seem like difference-makers. I think the key to our future is if Hunt or Broyld can become true dual-threats.

 

[GoCuse44]

Who closed those doors and where are you speaking? NJ by any chance?

Marrone said at a luncheon that the doors to the NJ high schools were closed to Syracuse when he took over (thank you GRob). This is the first year that they have made progress in NJ but it is going to take some time to get back where we were when Coach P & George D were coaching.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

I seem to recall that Ben Barrett is a weight room junkie and is pretty physical. I believe he benches more than 300lbs, squats a lot and has long arms. Also was told he's performed pretty well at a Syracuse football camp. I think he's going to end up playing tackle.

I think he can play and don't believe this was a token offer by any means.

Oh I think he is a fine prospect. I just figured he would get a free ride because his dad works for the university. He seems to have a good frame and I think HS OL are the toughest to judge based solely on measurables and bio information, so I trust Marrone's opinion.

 

[FranCuse]

I seem to recall that Ben Barrett is a weight room junkie and is pretty physical. I believe he benches more than 300lbs, squats a lot and has long arms. Also was told he's performed pretty well at a Syracuse football camp. I think he's going to end up playing tackle.

I think he can play and don't believe this was a token offer by any means.

I saw Barrett play this year and he is a physical beast, he looked chiseled out of stone. Similar to Nick Robinson physically. He certainly passes the eye test and we didn't have anyone that could physically deal with him.

 

[rrlbees]

Marrone said at a luncheon that the doors to the NJ high schools were closed to Syracuse when he took over (thank you GRob). This is the first year that they have made progress in NJ but it is going to take some time to get back where we were when Coach P & George D were coaching.

That's a myth. For whatever reason, our recruiting in NJ had dried up long before GRob got here. I think in the last 4 classes that P&D had a hand in, we got commits from 3-4 kids from NJ. During GRob's 4 years, that was increased to 8 or so. So I think we started to do a bit better under GRob but no where near what we used to do there. Also, there were some NJ coaches unhappy. Not because of GRob but at SU for letting P&D go. D had a lot of friends there. It is also fact that when Marrone let go several of the NJ kids on the roster, some bridges were burned in parts of NJ which wasn't helped by Mr. Mele being close to a lot of NJ HS coaches. So I in no way believe that GRob "closed doors".

BTW, I also believe we are starting to make a little progress there and have a chance to make some big headway.

 

[orangenauburn]

Where do we stand with the big prospect Webb for 2013? DT I believe

 

[CIL]

Paper and stars is never the end all. But over a period of time and a cross section of players it certainly plays a role in evaluating a class. Why do we pine for the 4-5 star players them? Anyone can name 4-5 star players that flame out or a 2 star who becomes a stud. Coaching of that potential in a class plays a role too, but this class looks like so many others. Only time will tell.

It's part of the "recruitnik" thrill I guess. Just look at the RU boards when they landed Savage or Huggins. Griffin was a 4 star, Luck 5 star, Mathieu 3 star (no other BCS offers and a throw in to LSU after they lost out on another big recruit, and Monte Ball was a 3 star. Of these Heisman finalists, Ball actually had the most impressive group of offers. it's a crap shoot.

 

[anglerman]

That's a myth. For whatever reason, our recruiting in NJ had dried up long before GRob got here. I think in the last 4 classes that P&D had a hand in, we got commits from 3-4 kids from NJ. During GRob's 4 years, that was increased to 8 or so. So I think we started to do a bit better under GRob but no where near what we used to do there. Also, there were some NJ coaches unhappy. Not because of GRob but at SU for letting P&D go. D had a lot of friends there. It is also fact Grob was a dosages in every way possible. He may have been the worst D1 coach in history. The guy single handedly brought down 2 programs. Stop defending this guythat when Marrone let go several of the NJ kids on the roster, some bridges were burned in parts of NJ which wasn't helped by Mr. Mele being close to a lot of NJ HS coaches. So I in no way believe that GRob "closed doors".

BTW, I also believe we are starting to make a little progress there and have a chance to make some big headway.

 

[rrlbees]

It's part of the "recruitnik" thrill I guess. Just look at the RU boards when they landed Savage or Huggins. Griffin was a 4 star, Luck 5 star, Mathieu 3 star (no other BCS offers and a throw in to LSU after they lost out on another big recruit, and Monte Ball was a 3 star. Of these Heisman finalists, Ball actually had the most impressive group of offers. it's a crap shoot.

When they landed Huggins, you'd think Barry Sanders had just been given some eligibility.

 

[bothsocksup]

I saw Barrett play this year and he is a physical beast, he looked chiseled out of stone. Similar to Nick Robinson physically. He certainly passes the eye test and we didn't have anyone that could physically deal with him.

does anybody know how nick robinson looked this year in practice? is he gonna be a player?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I saw Barrett play this year and he is a physical beast, he looked chiseled out of stone. Similar to Nick Robinson physically. He certainly passes the eye test and we didn't have anyone that could physically deal with him.

He can play, like Robinson, give him 2 years before you really evaulate.. Could be a two-3 year starter at some point. I think he was a better blocker at the high school level than both Macky and Andy. He will not be limited physically whatsoever in 2 years, kid has a legit frame.

Robinson from Bville had a great first year, kid has a bit of a nasty streak as well.

 

[OrangeMojo]

When they landed Huggins, you'd think Barry Sanders had just been given some eligibility.

well, if SU landed a 5 star RB with his offer list some on this board would immediately be speculating that he would soon replace Davis and Brown as the greatest all-time SU running back - so I don't really blame them for that

 

[IthacaBarrel]

well, if SU landed a 5 star RB with his offer list some on this board would immediately be speculating that he would soon replace Davis and Brown as the greatest all-time SU running back - so I don't really blame them for that

Agreed, we are just as guilty and that is OK. I wonder what the hell happened to Huggins this year? Did he get hurt? or he just didn't play well early and was benched

 

[SoBristol]

well, if SU landed a 5 star RB with his offer list some on this board would immediately be speculating that he would soon replace Davis and Brown as the greatest all-time SU running back - so I don't really blame them for that

And often (not always) they would be right. When we landed Hogue, Carter, Williams, Sales, Collier, we were pretty happy with the stars. In the case of Williams (committed early, but with 2 stars), the coaches were happy he had the measurables and had athletic ability shown on the basketball court. When the coaches find an Art Monk or Joe Morris or Ernie Davis or Chris Gedney, they know it and recruitniks know it.

It is a crap shoot (agree with CIL) if you want to guess which of 3 or 4 highly rated QBs will have the best shot at a Heisman. But there are reasons we are happy with Thompson as a TE recruit on our commit list (size, speed, good hands, highly rated, offers from good programs).

The best source (again, agree with CIL) is how the coaches rate our recruits -- if they say this is our deepest and strongest class in 10 years, I take that as reliable. But the basis of comparison (our own recruiting) isn't the standard we want to use -- ---

For a better yardstick, you can compare our commits versus our rivals by using the Scout site and scanning Toledo, Temple, BC, Rutgers, Pitt, Louisville. List our top 10 commits (by ratings, metrics, offers) and do the comparison. Which group would you rather have? We are definitely catching up, but more like Temple and Toledo than BC, Rutgers, Pitt and Louisville. We still lack our share of the better skill players, highly ranked OLs, and highly rated DEs with prime size. Doing better, but doing well enough?

 

[PhatOrange]

Agreed, we are just as guilty and that is OK. I wonder what the hell happened to Huggins this year? Did he get hurt? or he just didn't play well early and was benched

he was 4th string then 3rd string and also suffers from a case of fumbelitis then got hurt. year one was a big waste. kid should've redshirted, sounds familiar.

 

[CIL]

he was 4th string then 3rd string and also suffers from a case of fumbelitis then got hurt. year one was a big waste. kid should've redshirted, sounds familiar.

They kid doesn't hang onto the ball very well and has mediocre vision at best, or at least he displayed it in the few games I watched. He is going to have to get stronger and display more patience if he is to succeed at this level.

 

[SoBristol]

They kid doesn't hang onto the ball very well and has mediocre vision at best, or at least he displayed it in the few games I watched. He is going to have to get stronger and display more patience if he is to succeed at this level.

Huggins didn't light it up as a frosh, but then again, our prize RB recruits have been Timbers, Smith, Smallwood and Moore. Smith might be productive as a junior and senior; Moore possibly. Timbers and Smallwood are lost souls.