One and done, blessing or curse

[Dave85]

Ennis came and left after one year. Is it a blessing or a curse? UCONN won a national championship with Senior and Junior point guards. I have heard it said many times the way to win a national championship is with strong upper classmen guards. UCONN has won four national championships in the last 15 years. What is it that they are doing that we are not? I just can't believe they won it this year.

Maybe the answer is to go after solid 4 star or 5 star PG along with 3 star PG for senior leadership at some point. Napier was 3.3 star recruit. Boatright was a 4-star recruit. Neither one of those guys were a one and done but look what they accomplished!

And don't start attacking my thread as the dumbest thread ever created here. I've done a lot worse. I think this is a good discussion.

 

[moqui]

UCONN has won four national championships in the last 15 years. What is it that they are doing that we are not?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Ennis came and left after one year. Is it a blessing or a curse? UCONN won a national championship with Senior and Junior point guards. I have heard it said many times the way to win a national championship is with strong upper classmen guards. UCONN has won four national championships in the last 15 years. What is it that they are doing that we are not? I just can't believe they won it this year.

Maybe the answer is to go after solid 4 star or 5 star PG along with 3 star PG for senior leadership at some point. Napier was 3.3 star recruit. Boatright was a 4-star recruit. Neither one of those guys were a one and done but look what they accomplished!

And don't start attacking my thread as the dumbest thread ever created here. I've done a lot worse. I think this is a good discussion.

But for injuries and flunking, we would have had at least one more championship.

 

[rrlbees]

Ennis came and left after one year. Is it a blessing or a curse? UCONN won a national championship with Senior and Junior point guards. I have heard it said many times the way to win a national championship is with strong upper classmen guards. UCONN has won four national championships in the last 15 years. What is it that they are doing that we are not? I just can't believe they won it this year. Maybe the answer is to go after solid 4 star or 5 star PG along with 3 star PG for senior leadership at some point. Napier was 3.3 star recruit. Boatright was a 4-star recruit. Neither one of those guys were a one and done but look what they accomplished! And don't start attacking my thread as the dumbest thread ever created here. I've done a lot worse. I think this is a good discussion.

It's been discussed on the other 10 threads. They weren't one and done because they weren't good enough and the NBA didn't want them.

 

[Dave85]

But for injuries and flunking, we would have had at least one more championship.

AO was a beast. Melo taking those charges was amazing. God he was quick. Sigh...

 

[Dave85]

Not exactly what I wanted to talk about or my main point. I was more interested in a discussion on recruiting strategies and not UCONN.

 

[SUintheVille]

Go after the best available recruits (whether they're 3, 4, or 5-star) who fit your team and system. If they are 1-and-done, then they must have had a great 1 year for your team, so I'd take that every time. If they stay longer, then you have more experienced guys. There's too much emphasis on number of stars. Get the best or the best fit and develop them into even better. Simple.

 

[Dave85]

Go after the best available recruits (whether they're 3, 4, or 5-star) who fit your team and system. If they are 1-and-done, then they must have had a great 1 year for your team, so I'd take that every time. If they stay longer, then you have more experienced guys. There's too much emphasis on number of stars. Get the best or the best fit and develop them into even better. Simple.

It's not an easy equation. You have only 13 scholarship players. You have to be careful how you give offers. I don't know how the coaches manage it. I think for 2014 we only have one spot remaining. Maybe Roberson overachieves and enters the 2015 draft but I doubt it.

 

[Trueblue25]

I said this from the beginning.

Quick, feisty, talented veteran guards would be why Uconn would win the National Championship.

Shabazz and Ryan were a tandem.

Didn't hurt that Daniels had a breakout season, or at least post season, as well.

 

[two3zone]

It's worked for Kentucky the past few years having one and doners. I think success really depends on how the coaching and talent meshes. Two polar opposite teams played in the championship game this year, that alone should tell us that anything can happen.

 

[suhoops4life]

The ideal situation, of course, is a balance between "program guys" & NBA players. Could it be the luck of the draw determined SU would end up with 2 NBA guards the past 2 seasons?

 

[rrlbees]

It's not an easy equation. You have only 13 scholarship players. You have to be careful how you give offers. I don't know how the coaches manage it.

I can't remember the last time we had 13 scholies on the roster. Typically we don't.

 

[PoppyHart]

It's been discussed on the other 10 threads. They weren't one and done because they weren't good enough and the NBA didn't want them.

I'd say you got it half right. The NBA didn't want them. But whether they are/were good enough is pure speculation. Their are plenty of 2nd round picks and undrafted guys in the league who contribute. I'm sure many could have entered a year earlier if the NBA "wanted" them.

 

[rrlbees]

I'd say you got it half right. The NBA didn't want them. But whether they are/were good enough is pure speculation. Their are plenty of 2nd round picks and undrafted guys in the league who contribute. I'm sure many could have entered a year earlier if the NBA "wanted" them.

Ok, good enough in the nba's eyes.

 

[bballbeadle]

Ones and dones erode the psyches of fans after a while. Well, it erodes the psyche of this fan! People love college basketball in part because they get to know the players and get to watch them develop. This develops a sense of family and pride. It helps fans to watch someone as a freshman, wonder what he will be like as a junior, and then SEE him as a junior. It contributes to hope and interest in the future and keeps the fans loyal. It is distressing to see a player disappear (e.g. Jerami Grant) when he hasn't even reached his full potential on your team.

So, I am responding from a fan's emotional viewpoint, not from the viewpoint of the player or winning/losing statistics.

 

[KCJax03]

It's been discussed on the other 10 threads. They weren't one and done because they weren't good enough and the NBA didn't want them.

A bit of a conundrum for me here though, Uconn recruits players that are more sucessful on the college level but not good enough for the NBA, but Syracuse recruits players the NBA salivates over but are not as good against college competition.

I gave up on this after the Greene / Flynn / Devo / Harris days when rather then enjoying the season people were speculating about who was staying and who was leaving. That group accounted for two trips to the NIT, the high-point was a sweet sixteen drubbing by Oklahoma.

This year Syracuse couldn't beat Dayton yet they have two NBA first round picks.

College basketball has become a bizzaro world to me and I would be lying if I said I enjoyed it as much as I used to.

 

[KCJax03]

Ones and dones erode the psyches of fans after a while. Well, it erodes the psyche of this fan! People love college basketball in part because they get to know the players and get to watch them develop. This develops a sense of family and pride. It helps fans to watch someone as a freshman, wonder what he will be like as a junior, and then SEE him as a junior. It contributes to hope and interest in the future and keeps the fans loyal. It is distressing to see a player disappear (e.g. Jerami Grant) when he hasn't even reached his full potential on your team.

So, I am responding from a fan's emotional viewpoint, not from the viewpoint of the player or winning/losing statistics.

agree, I say the one and done's are a curse. I do not root for Syracuse because they are a breeding ground for one and done talent. I root for them because I want to see the players they recruit have success wearing a Syracuse jersey, I could care less about the NBA>

 

[cuseincincy]

Ennis came and left after one year. Is it a blessing or a curse? UCONN won a national championship with Senior and Junior point guards. I have heard it said many times the way to win a national championship is with strong upper classmen guards. UCONN has won four national championships in the last 15 years. What is it that they are doing that we are not? I just can't believe they won it this year.

Maybe the answer is to go after solid 4 star or 5 star PG along with 3 star PG for senior leadership at some point. Napier was 3.3 star recruit. Boatright was a 4-star recruit. Neither one of those guys were a one and done but look what they accomplished!

And don't start attacking my thread as the dumbest thread ever created here. I've done a lot worse. I think this is a good discussion.

First off, UConn's last 2 national championship teams were no where near as good as Syracuse was in that season. They got hot twice and went on runs. Kudos to them but I don't think you then say , maybe we should do it that way. You have to recruit the best players that you think will fit your system. And despite losing Grant and Ennis lets not forget that the one and dones that we "recruited" recently were Christmas and Coleman. I think that illustrates how tough it is to tell with kids outside the top 3-5 players. If you recruit a one and done and he leaves after 1 year, no big deal because hopefully you planned and recruited for that likelyhood. Losing kids after one year that you did not expect to hurts.

 

[newmexicuse]

Right now we are betwixt & between. We can't follow the Kentucky strategy because they are getting multiple Top Ten kids every year - we simply cannot recruit at that level. Our recruiting sweet spot is the 25 to 75 ranked kid that the staff identifies & gets on early. In the past you could count on at least two contributing years from these types of kids. No longer - they have one big year & they are outta here without really having accomplished much - MCW's FF appearance being an exception. Dion also accomplished a lot - it wasn't his fault things went wrong at another position. Dion, MCW, Jerami, and Tyler have all left after one contributing season. Tyler was the biggest surprise because he didn't seem to have enough next level athleticism to be a one & done.

I mentioned in another post that I think the staff is changing the recruiting strategy, going from the uber athletic kids to those who are still long but have more skills & a bit less raw athleticism. The next class coming in illustrates this - Lydon, Richardson, & Howard - all appear to be skilled very solid players athletically, but none that seem to have the jump off the charts athleticism. Hopefully because these kids are a bit less talented athletically then say a Jerami Grant that they will stay in the program for at least two contributing years. Last year's class had several "program" kids in Chino, Buss, and BJ & we will see how that works out. Not sure yet about Roberson if he will be a one and done type (my definition of one & done is one year of starting or playing big minutes in the program and not necessarily jumping after the frosh season).

So in answer to the OP point, we are recruiting at too high a level in general to expect kids to stay for four years. I think we are adjusting away from the kids that are rawer, but have super athleticism attractive enough for the NBA to be one & doners. I think we have to see if the kids in the 2015 class will stay for two or more contributing seasons. Don't get me wrong, you still take the legit Top Ten one & done candidate kids such as McC if you can get them, but those will be the exception more than the rule.

What has hurt us is too much reliance on kids who only stay one year, but are not truly elite players. IMHO, we have to move away from that model and I think the staff is attempting to do just that.

 

[Brooky03]

A one-and-doner is the reason for our lone National Championship. Without him, we would have a goose egg.

The bottom line is, you get the best talent you can and work from there. It's the only strategy that makes sense. Chemistry factors also come into play when deciding who gets a scholly offer, but talent is the main factor.

I don't know the numbers, but I bet UConn has put more guys in the NBA, with more successful careers on average, than Syracuse has since the mid 90's. UConn does not have some magic formula that involves recruiting mediocre players.

 

[newmexicuse]

A one-and-doner is the reason for our lone National Championship. Without him, we would have a goose egg.

The bottom line is, you get the best talent you can and work from there. It's the only strategy that makes sense. Chemistry factors also come into play when deciding who gets a scholly offer, but talent is the main factor.

I don't know the numbers, but I bet UConn has put more guys in the NBA, with more successful careers on average, than Syracuse has since the mid 90's. UConn does not have some magic formula that involves recruiting mediocre players.

Yeah, UConn does have the magic formula - they like very skilled, quick, but undersized guards who because they are small will stay longer & not be attractive to the NBA until after they have actually accomplished something. And they understand that experienced superior guard play is what enables March success.

That is why they have more "down" years then we do - they are patient enough to allow those types of kids to adjust and develop. As many titles as they have achieved, especially with teams that appeared mediocre is by design & not by luck.

We cannot follow their model because we play zone and need size up front.

 

[KCJax03]

Yeah, UConn does have the magic formula - they like very skilled, quick, but undersized guards who because they are small will stay longer & not be attractive to the NBA until after they have actually accomplished something. And they understand that experienced superior guard play is what enables March success.

That is why they have more "down" years then we do - they are patient enough to allow those types of kids to adjust and develop. As many titles as they have achieved, especially with teams that appeared mediocre is by design & not by luck.

We cannot follow their model because we play zone and need size up front.

Or perhaps they recruit enough depth that they do not need to play freshman / sophomores major minutes thus not hitting the sweet spot of the NBA speculative potential curve as it was explained by one poster not to long ago:

- Play well as a freshman / sophomore = huge upside potential worthy of a lottery pick!
- Play well as a junior / senior = low potential because your just beating up on younger players (your just not that good).

Keep 'em on the bench until there juniors coach!

 

[SWC75]

Maybe we should recruit a 4-5 star for every position and a 2-3 star to back him up. Some of them might emerge as veteran starters as seniors and that year's 4-5 star might be around an extra year.

 

[br801]

Yeah, UConn does have the magic formula - they like very skilled, quick, but undersized guards who because they are small will stay longer & not be attractive to the NBA until after they have actually accomplished something. And they understand that experienced superior guard play is what enables March success.

That is why they have more "down" years then we do - they are patient enough to allow those types of kids to adjust and develop. As many titles as they have achieved, especially with teams that appeared mediocre is by design & not by luck.

We cannot follow their model because we play zone and need size up front.

You make it sound as if the arc of a player's career (college and pro) is chiseled in stone at the time he is recruited. Nobody I can recall saw Ennis as a 0ne-and-done talent going into the season, and had MCW stayed, Ennis would have played about 5 minutes per game as his backup and no one would have heard of him today. So much of what happens is dependent on the particular circumstances a player finds himself in relative to the needs of the team, and those circumstances are difficult to predict.

 

[KCJax03]

You make it sound as if the arc of a player's career (college and pro) is chiseled in stone at the time he is recruited. Nobody I can recall saw Ennis as a 0ne-and-done talent going into the season, and had MCW stayed, Ennis would have played about 5 minutes per game as his backup and no one would have heard of him today. So much of what happens is dependent on the particular circumstances a player finds himself in relative to the needs of the team, and those circumstances are difficult to predict.

But would JB's philosophy of riding his best horses to the finish line hurt efforts to retain players to some degree? If you play only 7 guys routinely it is certainly tougher to hide a talented freshman / sophomore if they are in that rotation. I think Ennis is a very good player, I am just not convinced he so good he needs to be a first round pick this year. Are there freshman just as talented as Ennis coming back to college next year simply because they did not play 35+ minutes a game?