One and done, blessing or curse

[AlaskaSU]

A bit of a conundrum for me here though, Uconn recruits players that are more sucessful on the college level but not good enough for the NBA, but Syracuse recruits players the NBA salivates over but are not as good against college competition.

I gave up on this after the Greene / Flynn / Devo / Harris days when rather then enjoying the season people were speculating about who was staying and who was leaving. That group accounted for two trips to the NIT, the high-point was a sweet sixteen drubbing by Oklahoma.

This year Syracuse couldn't beat Dayton yet they have two NBA first round picks.

College basketball has become a bizzaro world to me and I would be lying if I said I enjoyed it as much as I used to.

UCon has more NBAers than we do.

 

[KCJax03]

UCon has more NBAers than we do.

I was just playing off the comments of others that suggested Uconn doesn't have players good enough to go pro early but we do. Either way, how do they manage to keep all that future NBA talent in a UConn uniform for 3 to 4 years when Syracuse cannot even keep a physically under developed, unathletic freshman from making the leap? I know the answer, because the NBA has a magic ball that tells them he has so much more potential! Syracuse certainly does need to start taking a closer look at what UConn is doing because they got it right.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm a little pained that people are questioning what we're doing and trying to come up with schemes to outwit a tournament built for chaos.

Enjoy when we do well, shrug it off when we don't. That's really all.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I was just playing off the comments of others that suggested Uconn doesn't have players good enough to go pro early but we do. Either way, how do they manage to keep all that future NBA talent in a UConn uniform for 3 to 4 years when Syracuse cannot even keep a physically under developed, unathletic freshman from making the leap? I know the answer, because the NBA has a magic ball that tells them he has so much more potential! Syracuse certainly does need to start taking a closer look at what UConn is doing because they got it right.

National title
Postseason ban
First round
National title
NIT
Final Four
First round
NIT
Elite Eight
Second round

If we started emulating UCONN I think I may have to be committed with schizophernic results like that.

 

[sdhusky]

Yeah, UConn does have the magic formula - they like very skilled, quick, but undersized guards who because they are small will stay longer & not be attractive to the NBA until after they have actually accomplished something. And they understand that experienced superior guard play is what enables March success.

That is why they have more "down" years then we do - they are patient enough to allow those types of kids to adjust and develop. As many titles as they have achieved, especially with teams that appeared mediocre is by design & not by luck.

We cannot follow their model because we play zone and need size up front.

Ollie is recruiting athletic guards with size. Samuel is 6.3, Purvis 6.4, Cassell is 6.4,

National title
Postseason ban
First round
National title
NIT
Final Four
First round
NIT
Elite Eight
Second round

If we started emulating UCONN I think I may have to be committed with schizophernic results like that.

Calhoun never made the NCAA for 4 straight years until once, late in his career at UCONN. I think he was much tougher on his players and sometimes they cracked and sometimes they excelled.

It is interesting to me that Ollie is getting away from the Kemba/Boatright/Napier sized guards and moving towards athletic 6.4 guys who can all shoot and handle ball. Purvis, Cassell Jr. Samuel, Ali and Jackson are all over 6.3. It will be interesting to see how many are on the floor at one time, how minutes are split up and who leaves early and who stays.

One thing about the UCONN/SU championship teams is that you could argue that each had the best player in the country that year. Napier, Kemba, Okafo, Carmelo & Rip Hamilton. Not saying they were the best each year, just that you could make a reasonable argument for it.

 

[newmexicuse]

Ollie is recruiting athletic guards with size. Samuel is 6.3, Purvis 6.4, Cassell is 6.4,


Calhoun never made the NCAA for 4 straight years until once, late in his career at UCONN. I think he was much tougher on his players and sometimes they cracked and sometimes they excelled.

It is interesting to me that Ollie is getting away from the Kemba/Boatright/Napier sized guards and moving towards athletic 6.4 guys who can all shoot and handle ball. Purvis, Cassell Jr. Samuel, Ali and Jackson are all over 6.3. It will be interesting to see how many are on the floor at one time, how minutes are split up and who leaves early and who stays.

One thing about the UCONN/SU championship teams is that you could argue that each had the best player in the country that year. Napier, Kemba, Okafo, Carmelo & Rip Hamilton. Not saying they were the best each year, just that you could make a reasonable argument for it.

They are falling into the trap of taking the "best" they can get - if I were them I would stick to the formula that has worked. If these new guys are any good, they won't be at UConn as seniors at their sizes.

 

[KCJax03]

National title
Postseason ban
First round
National title
NIT
Final Four
First round
NIT
Elite Eight
Second round

If we started emulating UCONN I think I may have to be committed with schizophernic results like that.

Oddly enough my position is not based soley on post season success, yes I like to have deep March runs and an occasional a final 4 appearance but I would much rather root for a team with players I have had an opporunity to watch grow and develop. 1996 was a special year for many reasons but additionally so for those of us who saw Wallace develop from a typical freshman to an absolute beast.

Why I believe Ennis has been such a hot topic is because coming into this season those recruiting gurus on this board described him as being a not overlly athletic or explosive player but a steady, dependable one that would come in and run an efficient offense. He was the quintessential program type player that every team needs. Nothing I saw this year from him has made me feel that was not an accurate assessment of him. If the NBA cannot keep their hands off of this guy, what chance do we have to hang on to anyone that plays early and is any good at all?

Quite frankly I would rather have a program that perhaps may make an NIT trip or two if that's what it would take to keep a team together long enough to make a serious run at a national title every 3 or 4 years with players that you have become familiar with and can root for. Kaleb Joesph will be the 4th starting point guard in 4 years and with the loss of Grant they will have two new starting forwards next year as well.

To much player turnover nowadays for me to maintain the same level of interest as I used to.

 

[Briancuse]

I'm a little pained that people are questioning what we're doing and trying to come up with schemes to outwit a tournament built for chaos.

Enjoy when we do well, shrug it off when we don't. That's really all.

I hear you about the tournament, but losing to Dayton isn't something to be shrugged off. It was a bad loss.

 

[orange2win]

agree, I say the one and done's are a curse. I do not root for Syracuse because they are a breeding ground for one and done talent. I root for them because I want to see the players they recruit have success wearing a Syracuse jersey, I could care less about the NBA>

What utter nonsense. Syracuse is a "breeding ground for one and done talent." No we are not.

In SU's 100 year basketball history we have only had 3 one and done recruits. They were, Melo, Donte and Tyler.

You want to name me another - who jumped to the NBA after just one year here?

 

[KCJax03]

What utter nonsense. Syracuse is a "breeding ground for one and done talent." No we are not.

In SU's 100 year basketball history we have only had 3 one and done recruits. They were, Melo, Donte and Tyler.

You want to name me another - who jumped to the NBA after just one year here?

Clarification for you then, many have indicated that it is a good exposure for Syracuse for talent to come a go quickly to the NBA. I do not. I would place guys who rode the bench as freshman and then left for the NBA after their sophomore year as a one and done in a broader sense as well. And I stick by the statement that no I do not root for Syracuse because they are a fast lane to the NBA, I root for them because I want to see players successful wearing a Syracuse jersey, while I do not begrudge the kids for taking millions (I would do the same), I do not get the same warm and fuzzy others seem to over what they do after they leave.

 

[orange2win]

Clarification for you then, many have indicated that it is a good exposure for Syracuse for talent to come a go quickly to the NBA. I do not. I would place guys who rode the bench as freshman and then left for the NBA after their sophomore year as a one and done in a broader sense as well. And I stick by the statement that no I do not root for Syracuse because they are a fast lane to the NBA, I root for them because I want to see players successful wearing a Syracuse jersey, while I do not begrudge the kids for taking millions (I would do the same), I do not get the same warm and fuzzy others seem to over what they do after they leave.

I get your point, but I take issue with it.

The top rated recruits in the country, as defined by Rivals, Scout, ESPN, etc., for the most part do not have SU on their list. Why? Because when you are that good, you are expecting to be an NBA lottery pick and these super talents do not want to play zone in prep for the NBA.

We sometimes get the best of the rest and JB, with nearly 40 years doing it, has a good eye for it. So our lower rated kids often turn to be nearly as good.

My frustration is that with some changes we could be getting the top talent every year and thus be vying for the National Championship. Of course the associated high turnover brings its own headaches. Also, any kid who is half decent these days, will jump early and most will never make it in the NBA. VG seniors are the preferred route and it can still be done that way, but hard to predict who will stay and mature to the required level.

 

[KCJax03]

I get your point, but I take issue with it.

The top rated recruits in the country, as defined by Rivals, Scout, ESPN, etc., for the most part do not have SU on their list. Why? Because when you are that good, you are expecting to be an NBA lottery pick and these super talents do not want to play zone in prep for the NBA.

We sometimes get the best of the rest and JB, with nearly 40 years doing it, has a good eye for it. So our lower rated kids often turn to be nearly as good.

My frustration is that with some changes we could be getting the top talent every year and thus be vying for the National Championship. Of course the associated high turnover brings its own headaches. Also, any kid who is half decent these days, will jump early and most will never make it in the NBA. VG seniors are the preferred route and it can still be done that way, but hard to predict who will stay and mature to the required level.

I may not be the recruitnik many on this board are but when I look at Syracuse's recruiting classes I see lots of 4 and 5 start talent with a Micky Dee's or two. I am not quite sure I would describe the players that come here as the best of the rest.

I would agree that this staff seems to be very good at identifying talent early on and getting verbals from kids before they have lots of stars next to there name. However many times by the time they show up here they are 4 or 5 star kids.

My frustration is not with the kids, it is with the current system. The NBA is willing to make first round draft picks out of kids that they simply do not need. Yes they have no obligation to protect the college game but it would be in their best interest as well to wait a year or two before drafting kids to wait and see how they develop in college rather then give millions away based on "potential".

As a fan of the college game it frustrates me that they have not made a change that would benefit both the college and NBA games.

I remember when first round draft picks were guys like Coleman, Owens, Douglas or Siekaly. Outside of Waiters, I cannot see any of these others that have left as first rounders over the last few years as being even remotely close to that level.

This whole drafting on potential results in the NBA drafting kids in the first round who have not even proven themselves yet as being elite in the college game. Grant is a freakish athlete with lots of upside potential but his actual on court production is not spectacular (12 points / 7 rebounds / 31 min). I can say the same for Ennis in terms of his production (13 points / 5.5 ast / 36 min).

This just drives me nuts.

 

[orange2win]

My frustration is not with the kids, it is with the current system. The NBA is willing to make first round draft picks out of kids that they simply do not need. Yes they have no obligation to protect the college game but it would be in their best interest as well to wait a year or two before drafting kids to wait and see how they develop in college rather then give millions away based on "potential".

I think most people on this board share that frustration, but it is not about to change any time soon I fear. If you want to win a national championship today, you need to be attracting the studs. In JB's 38 years he has never once attracted a Naismith, AP, Adolph Rupp, J.R. Wooden, Oscar Robertson or NABC college basketball POY winner. That's a lot of misses.

D.C. is our only #1 NBA draft pick.

 

[br801]

I think most people on this board share that frustration, but it is not about to change any time soon I fear. If you want to win a national championship today, you need to be attracting the studs. In JB's 38 years he has never once attracted a Naismith, AP, Adolph Rupp, J.R. Wooden, Oscar Robertson or NABC college basketball POY winner. That's a lot of misses.

D.C. is our only #1 NBA draft pick.

Yeah, we might actually stick around for a while in March one of these years if only JB could land just a few really good players.

 

[HOFCeluck]

The lack of perspective over the last month has been amazing.

 

[Wallo]

But for injuries and flunking, we would have had at least one more championship.

Agree with your post------- and also agree with your three quotes !!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I hear you about the tournament, but losing to Dayton isn't something to be shrugged off. It was a bad loss.

It being a bad loss in a single elimination tournament is exactly why you shrug it off, though.

 

[moqui]

It being a bad loss in a single elimination tournament is exactly why you shrug it off, though.

the first four days of the NCAA tournament are the best four days in sport precisely because a Dayton can knock off a Syracuse, and it happens to several big name teams every year . . . if you can't deal with being Goliath every once in a while, then you probably shouldn't get so invested to begin with

 

[AccuRater]

Ones and dones erode the psyches of fans after a while. Well, it erodes the psyche of this fan! People love college basketball in part because they get to know the players and get to watch them develop. This develops a sense of family and pride. It helps fans to watch someone as a freshman, wonder what he will be like as a junior, and then SEE him as a junior. It contributes to hope and interest in the future and keeps the fans loyal. It is distressing to see a player disappear (e.g. Jerami Grant) when he hasn't even reached his full potential on your team.

So, I am responding from a fan's emotional viewpoint, not from the viewpoint of the player or winning/losing statistics.

I couldn't agree more.

College basketball at the level at which Syracuse plays is taking on the character of AAA Baseball. The stars are here briefly, then move on to the bigs before we get a chance to identify with them. The program players contribute, but with some exceptions, pretty much remain in the background.

 

[Briancuse]

I couldn't agree more.

College basketball at the level at which Syracuse plays is taking on the character of AAA Baseball. The stars are here briefly, then move on to the bigs before we get a chance to identify with them. The program players contribute, but with some exceptions, pretty much remain in the background.

Your are 100 percent right, It is tough going through the season having to worry about what players are going to leave. It is so hard to build momentum from one year to the next, when your team is dismantled by early entry.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I think you have to recruit kids that you think will be great and fit your system. I'm sure it's been discussed but Grant and Ennis were not talked about as one and done players. You just have to recruit and try and get good kids. We lost a lot but we have talented kids coming in next year and the year after.

 

[Dave85]

I think you have to recruit kids that you think will be great and fit your system. I'm sure it's been discussed but Grant and Ennis were not talked about as one and done players. You just have to recruit and try and get good kids. We lost a lot but we have talented kids coming in next year and the year after.

I wish BJ and Patterson were able to make some kind of contribution this year. They will definitely have to step up next year for any chance of having a good season.

 

[Dave85]

With Christmas gone after next year we really need to get Diagne at center in the 2015 class. It's not clear how DCs knee will be and Obokoh is a work in progress. Diagne would get major minutes as a freshmen. That has got to be attractive.