One and Dones don't produce Championships

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#1
Very interesting article about the one and dones from a Kentucky perspective. The article essentially says don't expect Kentucky to win another championship under Coach Cal. It's a good read, and certainly supports the recruiting strategy of aiming just a little bit lower. Yes I know Carmelo brought us a championship. The interspersed one and done can work, but not a team of 5 star guys.

Unpopular Opinion: Kentucky won't win another championship under Coach Cal
 

721Comstock

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#2
Very interesting article about the one and dones from a Kentucky perspective. The article essentially says don't expect Kentucky to win another championship under Coach Cal. It's a good read, and certainly supports the recruiting strategy of aiming just a little bit lower. Yes I know Carmelo brought us a championship. The interspersed one and done can work, but not a team of 5 star guys.

Unpopular Opinion: Kentucky won't win another championship under Coach Cal
It’s one person’s OPINION.

And while it may (or may not) end up being true, I doubt Cal or K etc are now going to try to recruit less talented players, in the hopes they’ll stick around for 4 years to be the “program guys” that help lead the stud OAD’s to the ‘ship.

Duke won it all w 3 OAD guys leading the way.
 

Knicks411

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#3
It’s one person’s OPINION.

And while it may (or may not) end up being true, I doubt Cal or K etc are now going to try to recruit less talented players, in the hopes they’ll stick around for 4 years to be the “program guys” that help lead the stud OAD’s to the ‘ship.

Duke won it all w 3 OAD guys leading the way.

Also there are very few teams that have like 4 OAD guys. Basically Duke and Kentucky, and not every year. What are the odds of any single team winning a title in any given year? Pretty low I'd have to think
 
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#4
It’s one person’s OPINION.

And while it may (or may not) end up being true, I doubt Cal or K etc are now going to try to recruit less talented players, in the hopes they’ll stick around for 4 years to be the “program guys” that help lead the stud OAD’s to the ‘ship.

Duke won it all w 3 OAD guys leading the way.
Chill man. I didn't say it wasn't an opinion. I didn't claim it was a fact. However, I think it's thought provoking and worthy of discussion. I happen to think there's a lot of truth to it. Teams like Nova and Gonzaga have done very well. Heck even Loyola Chicago faired quite nicely. Teams with chemistry and senior leadership do well, and often outplay the one and done teams. It's one of the reasons I think Syracuse may have a great season this year. Nothing is black and white my friend.
 
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Knicks411

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#5
Chill man. LOL. I didn't say it wasn't an opinion. However, I think it's thought provoking and worthy of discussion. I happen to think there's a lot of truth to it. Teams like Nova and Gonzaga have done very well. Heck even Loyola Chicago faired quite nicely. Teams with chemistry and senior leadership do well, and often outplay the one and done teams. It's one of the reasons I think Syracuse may have a great season this year. Nothing is black and white my friend. Nothing.
Nova for sure has done very well. Gonzaga has won a lot of games, and they've made the FF one time. If Calipari or Coach K had that record, it would be used as a failure of the OAD strategy. (and btw, I do think Zaga has been very good as well, not my point. But the standards are different)

Anyway, my whole point is, there are like 2 teams that do the OAD thing really; and there are 300 something teams that don't. Duke and Kentucky can't win every year, there are multiple ways to skin a cat, especially when we're dealing with a single elimination tournament. But Kentucky and Duke have been ridiculously successful the last few years. You could write the same article and say any coach is probably not going to win a title in the rest of their tenure and you'd be right alot more often than not, just based on the odds.

And bringing this back to SU; I am pretty sure if we could get 4 top 10 freshmen every year we wouldn't be turning them down.
 
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#6
Nova for sure has done very well. Gonzaga has won a lot of games, and they've made the FF one time. If Calipari or Coach K had that record, it would be used as a failure of the OAD strategy. (and btw, I do think Zaga has been very good as well, not my point. But the standards are different)

Anyway, my whole point is, there are like 2 teams that do the OAD thing really; and there are 300 something teams that don't. Duke and Kentucky can't win every year, there are multiple ways to skin a cat, especially when we're dealing with a single elimination tournament. But Kentucky and Duke have been ridiculously successful the last few years. You could write the same article and say any coach is probably not going to win a title in the rest of their tenure and you'd be right alot more often than not, just based on the odds.

And bringing this back to SU; I am pretty sure if we could get 4 top 10 freshmen every year we wouldn't be turning them down.
I don't disagree with a word you wrote. I'm sure we'd probably take 4 top 10 players every year too if we could land them. But would it actually increase our chances of winning the championship? I don't think it does.
 
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#9
JB knows how to maximize his talent. He accomplishes far more with three and four star guys than Cal does with five star guys on the entire roster. A roster full of high three and four star guys who stay 2-3 years is IMO more likely to produce than a roster of five star guys that leave after one. I'd just like to see us close on more 4 star guys.
 

721Comstock

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#10
JB knows how to maximize his talent. He accomplishes far more with three and four star guys than Cal does with five star guys on the entire roster. A roster full of high three and four star guys who stay 2-3 years is IMO more likely to produce than a roster of five star guys that leave after one. I'd just like to see us close on more 4 star guys.
Literally all we EVER close on is 4* guys.

We almost never land the few 5* guys we offer, and we don’t offer a ton of 3* guys.

You’re basically saying “I’d just like to see us keep doing exactly what we’ve been doing”.

Wish granted.
 
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#11
Literally all we EVER close on is 4* guys.

We almost never land the few 5* guys we offer, and we don’t offer a ton of 3* guys.

You’re basically saying “I’d just like to see us keep doing exactly what we’ve been doing”.

Wish granted.
Dude, I'm complimenting JB and his coaching skills. He gets more out of his players than Coach Cal. That's a compliment. I actually think we do an awful lot right. JB and the staff are great scouts.

What I'm trying to say is that I think there is something in between the Kentucky and Duke model and ours. We don't have to get a top five class. Let's get a top 20 class composed of four star guys. I think it can be done, and apparently you do too. LGO!
 
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two3zone

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#12
JB knows how to maximize his talent. He accomplishes far more with three and four star guys than Cal does with five star guys on the entire roster. A roster full of high three and four star guys who stay 2-3 years is IMO more likely to produce than a roster of five star guys that leave after one. I'd just like to see us close on more 4 star guys.
We have one title with a guy who is going to be in the hall of fame and was the top guy from HS to college, too bad he came and we didn't have a couple more 3 and 4 star guys.
 
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#13
We have one title with a guy who is going to be in the hall of fame and was the top guy from HS to college, too bad he came and we didn't have a couple more 3 and 4 star guys.
Very interesting article about the one and dones from a Kentucky perspective. The article essentially says don't expect Kentucky to win another championship under Coach Cal. It's a good read, and certainly supports the recruiting strategy of aiming just a little bit lower. Yes I know Carmelo brought us a championship. The interspersed one and done can work, but not a team of 5 star guys.

Unpopular Opinion: Kentucky won't win another championship under Coach Cal
I agree with you. Read the last line of my original post.
 
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#16
A single elimination tourney is a crapshoot anyway.
That's the part of the tournament I hope they don't change. Changing the format to best 3/5 (which would reduce the number of teams allowed) would make it nearly impossible for a smaller school to win. There would be no Cindarellas. I would hate that.
 

GooseMutt

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#17
JB knows how to maximize his talent. He accomplishes far more with three and four star guys than Cal does with five star guys on the entire roster. A roster full of high three and four star guys who stay 2-3 years is IMO more likely to produce than a roster of five star guys that leave after one. I'd just like to see us close on more 4 star guys.
JB is a better coach and develops players into an actual system
 
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#18
JB is a better coach and develops players into an actual system
I agree. Cal isn't much of a coach IMO. He's a heck of snake oil salesman, that convinces can't miss NBA guys that they need his program to take them there. I wish the young guys today didn't buy his load of crap. It would level the playing field tremendously.
 

Forza Azzurri

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#19
I agree. Cal isn't much of a coach IMO. He's a heck of snake oil salesman, that convinces can't miss NBA guys that they need his program to take them there. I wish the young guys today didn't buy his load of crap. It would level the playing field tremendously.
Kentucky has made at least the elite eight 6 out of the 10 seasons Calipari has been at Kentucky. And he does that with a brand new set of guys every year.

If that is not coaching, not sure what is.
 
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#20
Kentucky has made at least the elite eight 6 out of the 10 seasons Calipari has been at Kentucky. And he does that with a brand new set of guys every year.

If that is not coaching, not sure what is.
I think any average coach could get Kentucky that far. He's got just about all NBA players. Where he excels is recruiting. But IMO if you gave JB the same talent he'd win 9/10 times over Cal.
 

Knicks411

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#21
I think Cal is a pretty damn good coach. He gets his kids to buy in and play defense when it it would probably be easy for a lot of them to be looking ahead to their pro career. Is he the absolute best x and o guy? Probably not. But I think he is, overall, a very good coach.

Can't forget the guy also turned UMass into a power. Memphis wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders when he took over there either

In the decade before he took over at UMass, the most games they won in a season was 13.
 
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#22
I think Cal is a pretty damn good coach. He gets his kids to buy in and play defense when it it would probably be easy for a lot of them to be looking ahead to their pro career. Is he the absolute best x and o guy? Probably not. But I think he is, overall, a very good coach.

Can't forget the guy also turned UMass into a power. Memphis wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders when he took over there either

In the decade before he took over at UMass, the most games they won in a season was 13.
Both of those programs also ended up on probation. But if you like him, well you like him. I give him credit for being an outstanding salesman. I don't find his in game coaching to be all that impressive.
 
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#23
Very interesting article about the one and dones from a Kentucky perspective. The article essentially says don't expect Kentucky to win another championship under Coach Cal. It's a good read, and certainly supports the recruiting strategy of aiming just a little bit lower. Yes I know Carmelo brought us a championship. The interspersed one and done can work, but not a team of 5 star guys.

Unpopular Opinion: Kentucky won't win another championship under Coach Cal
Kentucky under the current model is always going to win around 1 per decade. Teams like the AD team are going to happen when a team with multiple top 10 ranked players has multiple guys with those rankings show up better than expected and are the best players at the college level from day 1.

Duke won a title immediately once they saw what Calipari was doing at UK and went the same route of new team every year of burger boys.
 
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#25
Kentucky under the current model is always going to win around 1 per decade. Teams like the AD team are going to happen when a team with multiple top 10 ranked players has multiple guys with those rankings show up better than expected and are the best players at the college level from day 1.

Duke won a title immediately once they saw what Calipari was doing at UK and went the same route of new team every year of burger boys.
We shall see... it will be interesting to follow. Since it's an opinion, there's no way to know. I think Kentucky and Duke may be less likely to win in the future if they keep recruiting one and dones exclusively. Other teams are realizing that having seniors and chemistry can negate some of that talent. Maturity, coachability, and chemistry can beat these teams especially with a one game elimination tournament. Loyola Chicago says hello...

Syracuse is going to the Final Four at a pretty good clip... 1975, 1987, 1996, 2003, 2013 and 2016.
 
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