One individual play that symbolizes our lack of chemistry

[RF2044]

That one paled in comparison to White refusing to pass the ball to Howard for a clean dunk only to boot the ball out of bounds (ref called the ball out off Wisconsin, though).

I saw way too much of that with guys like Carter-Williams, Cooney, and Gbinije for the last few years, hoped that the early games were a sign of smarter players. Not happy with this aspect of White's game right npw.

Completely agree--that was an exponentially worse play. And probably a much bigger sign of poor chemistry / unwillingness to share the ball.

 

[iommi]

Yikes. Those are some good eyes right there. Damn near impossible to win a 'ship with attitudes like that.

I noticed it live and then rewound the dvr during the immediate commercial break to make sure I saw what I saw. Howard really needs to get his head straightened out. Don't like the body language. At all.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I noticed it live and then rewound the dvr during the immediate commercial break to make sure I saw what I saw. Howard really needs to get his head straightened out. Don't like the body language. At all.

Wonder if he doesn't like being recruited over...

 

[two3zone]

Wonder if he doesn't like being recruited over...

He should probably play better then.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He should probably play better then.

Hard to do that while you are sitting on the bench for nearly the entire second half watching a lead grow despite your play in the first half cutting that lead down... But maybe that's just me.

 

[two3zone]

Hard to do that while you are sitting on the bench for nearly the entire second half watching a lead grow despite your play in the first half cutting that lead down... But maybe that's just me.

I didn't see Frank cut the lead down, think that was White's doing.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I didn't see Frank cut the lead down, think that was White's doing.

While Frank was out there. Man, have you never watched basketball before?

 

[two3zone]

While Frank was out there. Man, have you never watched basketball before?

Frank had the best seat in the house watching White go off? I don't follow.

 

[MattOB]

I noticed it live and then rewound the dvr during the immediate commercial break to make sure I saw what I saw. Howard really needs to get his head straightened out. Don't like the body language. At all.

Would you like to see Howard or Gillon getting more minutes at PG?

 

[Brooky03]

Would you like to see Howard or Gillon getting more minutes at PG?

The question wasn't posed to me, but Howard all day every day

 

[doc05]

Hard to do that while you are sitting on the bench for nearly the entire second half watching a lead grow despite your play in the first half cutting that lead down... But maybe that's just me.

Despite his play? Did we watch the same game? He was awful.

 

[MattOB]

The question wasn't posed to me, but Howard all day every day

Ummmm...did I ask you? Just kidding, I'm curious to get the feel from everyone on who they like better at pg so I'm glad you answered, and I agree. Anyone like Gillon more?

 

[iommi]

Would you like to see Howard or Gillon getting more minutes at PG?

Tough one. I'd have to go with Howard because of his size in the zone and ability to set people up. He needs to get his head straightened out. I just think that with the lack of guys who can create their own shot, FH gives us our best chance to get people shots.

I'd still play Gillon quite a bit as an energy guy.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Despite his play? Did we watch the same game? He was awful.

I still think he has far more upside than Gillon. This year, and the next two, when we will desperately need him.

What did he do that so much worse than Gillon? While he missed one less three than Gillon, he made one more. He was better defensively, I thought. He had less turnovers. He attempted to drive to the hoop and while he missed more shots, at least he was trying to create.

 

[Cowtown]

The one that drove me nuts, I think we were down 4, and Gillon threw a terrible pass ahead.

That was the other one that had me wincing.

 

[MattOB]

Tough one. I'd have to go with Howard because of his size in the zone and ability to set people up. He needs to get his head straightened out. I just think that with the lack of guys who can create their own shot, FH gives us our best chance to get people shots.

I'd still play Gillon quite a bit as an energy guy.

Ditto

 

[Cowtown]

I hope so. Honestly, he's terrible. He does nothing well. What was he doing this last year on the Hill?

The ultimate play for me tonight with this guy was on the press. You know he was brought in to be the ultimate rim protector on the press, right? I've been hearing about that for a year. So what does he do? He runs up to half-court to try and get a loose ball, which he wasn't close on. So, two passes, and Wisconsin gets one of the easiest dunks they will get all year. Perfect.

It sure wasn't freaking yoga, LOL!

 

[RF2044]

I still think he has far more upside than Gillon. This year, and the next two, when we will desperately need him.

What did he do that so much worse than Gillon? While he missed one less three than Gillon, he made one more. He was better defensively, I thought. He had less turnovers. He attempted to drive to the hoop and while he missed more shots, at least he was trying to create.

Upside--but maybe not for this year. Right now, he isn't doing much running our half court offensive sets, he isn't creating scoring opportunities for his teammates, and the offense is not executing.

I don't want to turn this into one versus the other. But Gillon offers more scoring, and more playmaking POTENTIAL [frankly, neither one of them is doing a great job running the half court offensive sets], even accounting for Howard's improved jump shot. I'm also of the mindset that they are both defensive liabilities. Howard obviously has more size / is stronger, which on paper is of benefit, but he has been a sieve during both seasons. So I'm not sure what we lose with Gillon being short versus Howard being out of position.

Ultimately, I want to see the minutes go to the guy who is going to do a better job of running the team. I agree with Two3 and Orangenirvana, tonight that was Gillon. Bar was pretty low, however.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Upside--but maybe not for this year. Right now, he isn't doing much running our half court offensive sets, he isn't creating scoring opportunities for his teammates, and the offense is not executing.

I don't want to turn this into one versus the other. But Gillon offers more scoring, and more playmaking POTENTIAL [frankly, neither one of them is doing a great job running the half court offensive sets]. I'm also of the mindset that they are both defensive liabilities. Howard obviously has more size / is stronger, which on paper is of benefit, but he has been a sieve during both seasons. So I'm not sure what we lose with Gillon being short versus Howard being out of position.

Ultimately, I want to see the minutes go to the guy who is going to do a better job of running the team. I agree with Two3 and Orangenirvana, tonight that was Gillon. Bar was pretty low, however.

Yeah, I'm not seeing the same thing.

 

[tbonezone]

nobody on this team dshes the ball on the break anymore. even when the drop would lead to an easy deuce. i blame dion waiters.

 

[Cowtown]

Upside--but maybe not for this year. Right now, he isn't doing much running our half court offensive sets, he isn't creating scoring opportunities for his teammates, and the offense is not executing.

I don't want to turn this into one versus the other. But Gillon offers more scoring, and more playmaking POTENTIAL [frankly, neither one of them is doing a great job running the half court offensive sets]. I'm also of the mindset that they are both defensive liabilities. Howard obviously has more size / is stronger, which on paper is of benefit, but he has been a sieve during both seasons. So I'm not sure what we lose with Gillon being short versus Howard being out of position.

Ultimately, I want to see the minutes go to the guy who is going to do a better job of running the team. I agree with Two3 and Orangenirvana, tonight that was Gillon. Bar was pretty low, however.

Gillon couldn't penetrate off the dribble against bigger guards. And everyone he's going to see in games that matter are bigger.

 

[RF2044]

Yeah, I'm not seeing the same thing.

Next couple of games will be telling.

And keep in mind--I freaking love Frank. I've been his biggest fan since he was a recruit--I just think that while he made some important jumps this past offseason [namely, his physique and shooting stroke], his level of improvements were slightly exaggerated by a few who expected him to suddenly morph into Derek Harper. Right now, he isn't doing a good job running the team--and I think Boeheim is getting frustrated with that. So frustrated that he's willing to play a 5-9 guy at the top of the zone because he's running things even just slightly better.

 

[RF2044]

Gillon couldn't penetrate off the dribble against bigger guards. And everyone he's going to see in games that matter are bigger.

That's not entirely true--he did some of that today, and scored on a couple of penetrations. Mind you, I'm not suggesting it was any great shakes. It will be interesting to see how JB allocates minutes moving forward. I don't specifically agree that he "couldn't" do it -- frankly, both of the PGs haven't lived up to my expectations for them.

 

[iommi]

Next couple of games will be telling.

And keep in mind--I freaking love Frank. I've been his biggest fan since he was a recruit--I just think that while he made some important jumps this past offseason [namely, his physique and shooting stroke], his level of improvements were slightly exaggerated by a few who expected him to suddenly morph into Derek Harper. Right now, he isn't doing a good job running the team--and I think Boeheim is getting frustrated with that. So frustrated that he's willing to play a 5-9 guy at the top of the zone because he's running things even just slightly better.

My issue with Gillon has been his non-stop dribbling going nowhere. He needs to look to use his quickness to penetrate. The South Carolina State point guard was about 5'7" and did a better job getting the ball into the teeth of the defense.

And Howard HAS been terrible. He IS a liability on D. I'm most concerned with his attitude and body language. That is inexcusable. Time for him to get his act together. Very disappointing.

 

[pearl31]

agree that Frankie has not shown good leadership or defensive acumen the last two games but geez I'm not sure how anyone can look at Gillon during the same two games and not think he's been clearly worse - both in running the team on O and what he's giving up at the top of the zone...
and Gillon still seemed shaky with the ball much of the time tonight - exemplified on the play in the 2nd half with about :04 left on the shot clock and he took off like a spazz into the Wiscy D, bouncing the ball up around his head...
Sorry, but Howard is the guy at PG if we want to have any real success this year with Gillon coming in for small doses of energy and (hopefully) some scoring