One thing I'm looking forward to, Post-Boeheim

[IthacaMatt]

I'm hoping that Hop can coach a more functional offense. Our offense is basically high pick and roll. That's Plan A, Plan B and Plan C. To spice it up, sometimes we run double screens up top, and we run baseline screens to get a shooter free on the wing or in the corner. That's it. Like Buzz Williams said about us a few years ago, "What they do is incredibly simple. They only have about 5 plays."

That means that it all comes down to individual talent. We rely too much on a man's ability to beat his guy off the dribble. Our whole offense is predicated on it.

Even with this "incredible" collection of shooters - four legit guys who can shoot from three this year - our offense remains painful to watch. Some of that is college basketball in general. But geez, is it so much to ask that we have a team that can actually create open shots, and uses the low post at times?

I mean, we have a 6-7 point guard, and most of the rest of college basketball plays man-to-man. Why do we NEVER see G try to post up the opposing PG?

Why don't we try to run some plays with Lydon in the high post, in the old UCLA style offense? I think he'd be great in that spot.

How about some IMAGINATION on offense? There are a million ideas out there. How come we don't seem to try ANY of them?? Why are we SO predictable?

 

[rottweiler44]

I have my son's 3rd grade team run the 3 out 2 in pass and cut motion offense. I think it might be more complex than SU's

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'm hoping that Hop can coach a more functional offense. Our offense is basically high pick and roll. That's Plan A, Plan B and Plan C. To spice it up, sometimes we run double screens up top, and we run baseline screen to get a shooter free on the wing or in the corner. That's it. Like Buzz Williams said about us a few years ago, "What they do is incredibly simple. They only have about 5 plays."

That means that it all comes down to individual talent. We rely too much on a man's ability to beat his guy off the dribble. Our whole offense is predicated on it.

Even with this "incredible" collection of shooters - four legit guys who can shoot from three this year - our offense remains painful to watch. Some of that is college basketball in general. But geez, is it so much to ask that we have a team that can actually create open shots, and uses the low post at times?

I mean, we have a 6-7 point guard, and most of the rest of college basketball plays man-to-man. Why do we NEVER see G try to post up the opposing PG?

Why don't we try to run some plays with Lydon in the high post, in the old UCLA style offense? I think he'd be great in that spot.

How about some IMAGINATION on offense? There are a million ideas out there. How come we don't seem to try ANY of them?? Why are we SO predictable?

We did more prior to him joining the Olympic staff. He's been influenced by D'antoni wayyy to much IMO.

 

[pfister1]

Great question. SWC75 shouldn't have to carry the entire load for this board, here is the link for submitting questions to JB for his radio show. http://cuse.com/sb_output.aspx?form=4

I'm sure SWC75 will be more than happy to report JB's explanation of his offensive philosophy.

In all seriousness this would be a great topic for the radio show. You might have to modify the tone a bit.

 

[IthacaMatt]

JB's explanation of his offensive philosophy.

.

JB's explanation: "Players make plays. We need to make more shots. When we shoot well, we win."

 

[pearl31]

Why do we NEVER see G try to post up the opposing PG?

I agree with most of what you say, except for this quoted part. They've tried to have G post up Rodriguez on Saturday a couple of times and I believe a couple of times in the Pitt game as well. but yeah, overall point taken - offense is not good unless they're hitting 3s at a relatively high %

 

[supp]

I'm hoping that Hop can coach a more functional offense. Our offense is basically high pick and roll. That's Plan A, Plan B and Plan C. To spice it up, sometimes we run double screens up top, and we run baseline screen to get a shooter free on the wing or in the corner. That's it. Like Buzz Williams said about us a few years ago, "What they do is incredibly simple. They only have about 5 plays."

That means that it all comes down to individual talent. We rely too much on a man's ability to beat his guy off the dribble. Our whole offense is predicated on it.

Even with this "incredible" collection of shooters - four legit guys who can shoot from three this year - our offense remains painful to watch. Some of that is college basketball in general. But geez, is it so much to ask that we have a team that can actually create open shots, and uses the low post at times?

I mean, we have a 6-7 point guard, and most of the rest of college basketball plays man-to-man. Why do we NEVER see G try to post up the opposing PG?

Why don't we try to run some plays with Lydon in the high post, in the old UCLA style offense? I think he'd be great in that spot.

How about some IMAGINATION on offense? There are a million ideas out there. How come we don't seem to try ANY of them?? Why are we SO predictable?

Boeheim's great strength as a coach has been that he's kept things simple. In the '80s and '90s, this was even a detriment to his reputation as a coach; i.e. that he just rolls the ball out and let's the talent take care of the rest. Of course, that was never actually the case but compared to many other guys, he didn't micromanage the play on the court. And, heck, in the past this approach worked great most of the time. I don't remember a team in the '80s or '90s that really struggled to score but I may be wrong. And even in the new millennium, it's really been a major problem the past 4 years.

Now what does that mean? Are the offensive issues because of an increased focus on recruiting for the zone, as some have suggested? I don't think so. I don't think we're recruiting guys whose profiles are significantly different from what we were recruiting before. Is it that the incoming players need more coaching on offense than in the past? Maybe but it seems strange that player fundamentals have fallen off so dramatically in the past half decade to require a more hands-on approach. Is it guys leaving early and unexpectedly? For sure that hurts. Can't help team chemistry to have all this turnover year after year, although UK seems to manage. Is it an evaluation problem? Partly. We brought in too many duds and with the scholarship limitations and early departures, it's been harder to recover from those mistakes. Is it the step up in competition in the ACC? I think that definitely plays a role. As good as the BE was, there were always 4-5 teams that were non-competitive (in the days of the 16-team conference). We'd always get a boost from playing those tomato cans. There are way fewer gimmes in this league. The coaches are generally better too. More pay usually means more competent. There were some BE teams that never made the necessary investments to be competitive. We can't really say that about any ACC teams.

I think that there are things that Boeheim and crew need to address in terms of teaching movement, spacing, etc. on offense. You can't just roll the balls out in this conference and expect 20 wins. At the same time, I think that our recent offensive problems are probably more due to the inexplicable departures, NCAA sanctions, and recruiting misses.

 

[reedny]

It's not about our scheme. It's about our lack of balance and our short bench. We run the same plays as many teams (High S/R, baseline picks for Trevor, a little triangle from the top/wing to the low block, some high-low from the FL). You could argue that we need more double high screens (Roberson and DC aren't scoring so they should screen heavily). But basically, the problem isn't scheme, it's that we're playing 3 on 5 .. with almost no offense coming from the 4 or 5. Our scoring is limited to the 1, 2 and 3. So Laranega, being a crafty old coach, took out our 1 and 2 with helacious defense. And we couldn't adjust -- scoring only 51 points. Richardson went off and they let him go .. knowing that we weren't going to beat them with his points alone (or with inside offense). Get used to this defensive strategy .. unless and until we have some inside answers.

Also, once again, our lack of depth hurt us ... as G and TC were gassed down the stretch. Howard was hurt and KJ couldn't get going. So of our paltry 51 points, 30 came from 2 guys. That isn't going to get it done even when we rebound the ball better ... which we did thanks to big efforts from TR and TL.

Bottom line - expectations should be kept to a minimum this year. Have a beer (or 3) and enjoy watching TC and G while they're here.

 

[ebucklewis]

a point guard would make all the difference in the world. We don't have one. we have a very experienced back court - but only because they aren't good enough to get drafted.

 

[NKR1978]

a point guard would make all the difference in the world. We don't have one. we have a very experienced back court - but only because they aren't good enough to get drafted.

On the bright side, there is hope on that front for next year. And as long as Mal and Lydon stay, we could have the pieces to be really good next year.

 

[Fly Rodder]

On the bright side, there is hope on that front for next year. And as long as Mal and Lydon stay, we could have the pieces to be really good next year.

Battle? He's not a PG. If everyone does stay, next season could be a weird roster. If Howard plays PG next to Battle, then MR stays at SF. That creates a 3-way logjam at PF for a senior, a talented SO, and a frosh who is likely promised a starting spot (per one of Jake's posts). Not counting the potential addition of Thompson. If Battle plays PG and MR is at the other G spot, there's no SF and, again, 4 PFs. Although, I guess Moyer could slide into SF. That's a 6'8", 7'2", 6'10" front court with a 6'6", 6'6" back court. The height is nice. Depends on what shakes out over the summer I guess.

 

[pfister1]

Battle? He's not a PG. If everyone does stay, next season could be a weird roster. If Howard plays PG next to Battle, then MR stays at SF. That creates a 3-way logjam at PF for a senior, a talented SO, and a frosh who is likely promised a starting spot (per one of Jake's posts). Not counting the potential addition of Thompson. If Battle plays PG and MR is at the other G spot, there's no SF and, again, 4 PFs. Although, I guess Moyer could slide into SF. That's a 6'8", 7'2", 6'10" front court with a 6'6", 6'6" back court. The height is nice. Depends on what shakes out over the summer I guess.

Moyer has been promised a starting spot?

 

[djcon57]

JB and his teams have never been an offensive juggernaut, the main difference is we used to score a ton on transition.

Watch the 2003 Champ game...I think we got about 6 3s in transition in the 1st half alone.

Sadly I think a major issue is Cooney is a bad finisher in transition and G can't make a FTs when he gets fouled in transition and Dujuan isn't great getting up and down the floor and Lydon and Roberson are average finishers right now

Compare that to MCW or Waiters.Even GMac.
Or we had guys like Billy E or Scoop (later years) who made the right decisions and the right passes
Then we had guys like Hak and Wes and Melo, flowing up and down the floor with easy dunks.

Recent teams seem to be stuck in cement. Hell, remember the Ennis team? The board complained nonstop ..it was brutal

 

[FrancoPizza]

JB and his teams have never been an offensive juggernaut, the main difference is we used to score a ton on transition.

Bingo. Bingo. And Bingo.

After the 34-3 season, our transition game has fallen off a cliff. We relied on that to cushion what has always been an adequate-at-best half-court offense in our better years (sans 2009-10). So the question is why?

Recruiting -- since Waiters, MCW and Triche departed we have had nobody that can really push the ball and/or be a threat to finish at the basket in transition. It's been about a 4-year stretch of complete impotence and it's been brutal. I think deep down JB would like to resurrect this part of the game but you'll have to ask him exactly what he's prioritizing these days. Just how much is his zone infatuation blinding him to other needs? I get sick of seeing us grab a rebound and be virtually no threat to attack and find easy points.

The only other variable that coincides with the transition dropoff is the switch to using the zone exclusively. Maybe the worst thing that could have happened in this regard was having perhaps our greatest offensive balance in the year that JB decided to mothball all traces of m2m. In JB's mind that probably cemented and validated the decision to go all-zone, 24/7, when in fact I think most concede that year was a byproduct of a once-in-a-generation confluence of offensive balance. I think recruiting is the biggest factor as I led with earlier... but it certainly hasn't helped when the rest of college basketball has been content to slow the pace of the game and use the entire shot clock.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Moyer has been promised a starting spot?

I remember seeing it from Jake in some thread as a response to someone trying to figure out who the front court will be next season. Not sure which thread it was in. I looked quickly and couldn't find it.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I'm hoping that Hop can coach a more functional offense. Our offense is basically high pick and roll. That's Plan A, Plan B and Plan C. To spice it up, sometimes we run double screens up top, and we run baseline screens to get a shooter free on the wing or in the corner. That's it. Like Buzz Williams said about us a few years ago, "What they do is incredibly simple. They only have about 5 plays."

That means that it all comes down to individual talent. We rely too much on a man's ability to beat his guy off the dribble. Our whole offense is predicated on it.

Even with this "incredible" collection of shooters - four legit guys who can shoot from three this year - our offense remains painful to watch. Some of that is college basketball in general. But geez, is it so much to ask that we have a team that can actually create open shots, and uses the low post at times?

I mean, we have a 6-7 point guard, and most of the rest of college basketball plays man-to-man. Why do we NEVER see G try to post up the opposing PG?

Why don't we try to run some plays with Lydon in the high post, in the old UCLA style offense? I think he'd be great in that spot.

How about some IMAGINATION on offense? There are a million ideas out there. How come we don't seem to try ANY of them?? Why are we SO predictable?

I thought for sure it would be "being medicore".

 

[retro44]

J.B. will have to be 6 feet under before anything changes around here.

 

[FrancoPizza]

we could have the pieces to be really good next year.

We've been saying that every year for the past 4 years and look how that's panned out. I guess one of these years we'll get it right. Broken clock, loose nuts, squirrels, etc.

 

[NKR1978]

We've been saying that every year for the past 4 years and look how that's panned out. I guess one of these years we'll get it right. Broken clock, loose nuts, squirrels, etc.

This makes it seem like the last two years are the norm. We've had some great teams over the last 5 to 10 years, and it's silly to ignore that. Two of those teams had all the pieces.

 

[reedny]

This makes it seem like the last two years are the norm. We've had some great teams over the last 5 to 10 years, and it's silly to ignore that. Two of those teams had all the pieces.

A couple of 30 win teams, one to the Elite 8, then number 1 most of the year with a FF appearance ... yah I think we've been spoiled a little.

 

[reedny]

JB and his teams have never been an offensive juggernaut, the main difference is we used to score a ton on transition.

Watch the 2003 Champ game...I think we got about 6 3s in transition in the 1st half alone.

Sadly I think a major issue is Cooney is a bad finisher in transition and G can't make a FTs when he gets fouled in transition and Dujuan isn't great getting up and down the floor and Lydon and Roberson are average finishers right now

Compare that to MCW or Waiters.Even GMac.
Or we had guys like Billy E or Scoop (later years) who made the right decisions and the right passes
Then we had guys like Hak and Wes and Melo, flowing up and down the floor with easy dunks.

Recent teams seem to be stuck in cement. Hell, remember the Ennis team? The board complained nonstop ..it was brutal

Forget 2003, or MCW/Waiters comparisons. Those were different teams, with elite talent in the starting rotation and on the bench. What you're seeing more recently is the fallout from a string of unfortunate luck we've had. In the span of only 2 or 3 seasons, we lost two kids to the NBA that we expected to return (Ennis/Grant). We lost a key 6'10" recruit in the midst of the NCAA debacle, lost a developing forward (BJ) in the aftermath when it looked like we lacked scholarships, had Rak graduate, and then lost another 6'9" big to the NCAA clearinghouse. I mean, that's a sizable talent drain, mostly on the front line ... and last year and this year are the result. Even 1 of those players, TB for example, or Diagne .. would have made a dramatic difference.

So our woes are not Trevor Cooney's fault ... just the opposite. He's a rock of steady play out there, with good ball handling, improving penetrating ability, low TO's and good defense (tied for the ACC lead in steals). Oh, and he can shoot ... although he draws a lot of attention from opposing defenses. G is another talented kid, forced to play out of position .. without rest and without a productive backup. As stated above, our front court is thin, inexperienced and smallish. We have no rim protector and little inside scoring.

So ... better to enjoy Trevor's strengths while he's here and grin and bear the tough games. There will be more.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Trevor is fine but he has been forced to do too much here. I look back to Boeheim's comment on how he felt Ennis/Cooney played too many minutes that season. Well, bring in a guard to help them out! Diagne not coming definitely hurt us now with the inside and rebounding woes. But, look at Ohio State. Guys like De'Angelo Russell, Sullinger, Deshaun Thomas are all guys who left early. They lost Shannon Scott, Russell, Sam Thompson, and Amir Williams from last year's team. This year OSU started slowly but have beaten UK, crushed a good Mercer team, and easily beat Minnesota on the road. I am certain they will make the tourney. I'm just tired of seeing mediocre ballhandling, guys who can't handle some pressure M2M D/dribbling sideways/picking up dribble too far from the basket, lack of creating off the bounce. Something has to change in recruiting.

 

[orangefan13]

Roberson, Kaleb, Dajuan were all recruited with high offensive talents they just never evolved offensively to have any strong skillset ...yet. Thats 3 of our 9 scholoships. that leaves 6 behind. Obokoh just isn't ready. three fresh cooney and Gbinije.

Soph, Jr, Senior you look back to two-three years ago and we would have thought to get alot more out of all them. Some had Roberson as more potential then Grant as a fresh.
Roberson is averaging 9, Dajuan 5, and Kaleb 1.
I expected nearly double that from them together preseason this year, alot of us did.
12-15 points shy of what we kind of needed from them, has really forced our freshmen to step up.
Even another 3 and 4 from dajuan and roberson per game would be Huge.

Would like to see us develop a midpost offense, we rarely to never do and never run a double midpost screen. That is one reason why we get called for running out of bounce once a game. With Gbinije and Cooney off the ball its like half the distance of a foul shot, Gbinije is so tall would like to see him tamper with forcing 3-4 shots a game from there off a double midpost screen, I already know he can hit the long two and hes going to force it inside anyway. Would also like to see what Howard could do if he had time to react to a double screen out of the mid post. He finishes well at the rim, but needs help slowing things down in the lane to get to the rim as a fresh. Same with Lydon when we go with the tall lineup would like to see him try a couple from the midpost. He is maybe our best free throw shooter give him even a shorter shot he should make them pay.Maybe we could get Lydon 3-4 of those hookshots inside instead of 1-2 a game also while we are at it..

Cooney was at 13 shots per game since acc started hes been at 8 against miami and 7 against pitt. He did get to the line alot though against pitt. As bad as our offense was playing the last 2 our down the stretch ball was horrific. Against pitt it was way to many offensive rebounds, against Miami we got a practice phase of late ball pressure 40 feet from the basket.

JB's teams have been offensive juggernauts just not in 2 years over the span of parts of 3 seasons.
Can't say it enough you can't control transition but you can control half court offense. In 09-10 opponents started to cut down on allowing us transition more, and our 09-10, 11-12, 12-13, 13-14 teams seemed to fair pretty darn good besides it. Because they had guys who could create shots. What made 09-10 and 11-12 records so great was they could also score on nights when they didn't get transition. And there was plenty of those. What made 12-13 so good was they got better offensively as the year went along Fair, Triche and MCW rounded out more. Look 1t 13-14 they had virtually no transition and it wasn' t the problem it was really poor jumpshooting the last 9, and Fair/Grant having some off nights in 4-5 of those games, (like 4-6 point offnights that is).

 

[urban96]

We did more prior to him joining the Olympic staff. He's been influenced by D'antoni wayyy to much IMO.

 

[cuseattle]

Forget 2003, or MCW/Waiters comparisons. Those were different teams, with elite talent in the starting rotation and on the bench. What you're seeing more recently is the fallout from a string of unfortunate luck we've had. In the span of only 2 or 3 seasons, we lost two kids to the NBA that we expected to return (Ennis/Grant). We lost a key 6'10" recruit in the midst of the NCAA debacle, lost a developing forward (BJ) in the aftermath when it looked like we lacked scholarships, and then lost another 6'9" big to the NCAA clearinghouse. I mean, we've had a sizable talent drain ... and last year and this year are the result.

So our woes are not Trevor Cooney's fault ... just the opposite. He's a rock of steady play out there, with good ball handling, improving penetrating ability, low TO's and good defense (tied for the ACC lead in steals). Oh, and he can shoot ... although he draws a lot of attention from opposing defenses. G is another talented kid, forced to play out of position .. without rest and without a productive backup. To top it off, our front court is thin, inexperienced and smallish. We have no rim protector and little inside scoring.

So ... better to enjoy Trevor's strengths while he's here and grin and bear the tough games. There will be more.

Word. It kind of reminds of how Brandon didn't get a ton of respect from some, that is, until we didn't have that rock. I wish Cooney could have had a less difficult time in the program to be a Senior leader.