OT: Adding a Baseball Team?

[Dave85]

It's not the NCAA, its federal law that arises out of the civil rights movement and the push to eliminate gender bias and discrimination. The NCAA (and individual schools) is just the institution that the laws are being applied to.

Can someone explain to me how Title IX prevents the school from having a baseball team?

Congress enacts Title IX of The Educational Amendments of 1972
20 U.S.C. ß 1681 et seq. Signed into law by President Richard Nixon, June 23, 1972. Prohibits sex discrimination in any education program or activity, within an institution receiving any type of Federal financial assistance.​

 

[Hoo's That]

Can someone explain to me how Title IX prevents the school from having a baseball team?

Congress enacts Title IX of The Educational Amendments of 1972
20 U.S.C. ß 1681 et seq. Signed into law by President Richard Nixon, June 23, 1972. Prohibits s e x discrimination in any education program or activity, within an institution receiving any type of Federal financial assistance.​

The Title IX enforcement folks look at the percentage of males/females at your school. The ultimate goal is to have the number of opportunities in sports (scholarships, roster spots, etc.) come as close as possible to matching those percentages. Ga Tech, VMI, NC State (because it is the engineering school of NC) and the service academies are at a great advantage because they have a majority of male students, so adding just about any sport for women keeps them in good Title IX shape when they add a sport for men. For example, NCSU could bring back its MLAX team and Ga Tech could start one "simply" by starting WLax teams at the same time. UVa is now 54% women (it was over 90% men when I was there), It would be tougher for us to add a men's sport because, even with the number of women's sports we have, the 85-scholarship football gorilla sitting in the corner pulls our M/ sports percentages down below the 54% for women. Rowing is "football for women"; it has the largest roster and the highest number of allowed scholarships (20) of any women's sport.

Interesting note, just about all the big-name women's basketball teams practice against male players. Those males count as female roster opportunity spots for Title IX purposes.

 

[SU2NASA]

That there isn't a men's NCAA hockey team is a crime.

Especially since there's a women's team. I'll always have hard feelings about their total lack of help in the 1999 proposal to elevate men's hockey, which included elevating them. Also, because the men's team supported their very existence with borrowing equipment.

Also, congrats to the men's team for winning their regular season and conference championships and heading to Chicago for the ACHA National Championships.

 

[KaiserUEO]

without getting into the baseball v hockey debate again, the sport they should add is most definitely baseball.

the bigeast had decent hardball and obviously so does the ACC.

a lot of northeast schools play it, its not just a suthin thang.

bc, st johns, seton hall, gtown, pitt, stoney brook, hofstra, marist, siena, rider, manhattan, the ivy...just off the top of my head, all play d1 ball here.

finding a place to play should be easy between where the chiefs are at or other south campus locales.

I don't want to say we owe it to the ACC to field a team...but we owe it to them.

if theyre asking...

 

[Orangeman]

Title 9 should be going away soon. Last year 60% of College graduates were female.

We actually have a "Male" college student problem, not a female one.

As per usual government intervention has gone too far.

Schools are creating imaginary roster spots to meet these requirements. There aren't enough girls to fill the "equality" mandate that the Federal gov't has (because, surprise, not as many girls want to play sports as boys...so we'll just lower opportunity for the boys as we lift the girls).

 

[Crusty]

Except LeMoyne and OCC play it.

And Ithaca College and Cornell

 

[Crusty]

That there isn't a men's NCAA hockey team is a crime.

Especially since there's a women's team. I'll always have hard feelings about their total lack of help in the 1999 proposal to elevate men's hockey, which included elevating them. Also, because the men's team supported their very existence with borrowing equipment.

Also, congrats to the men's team for winning their regular season and conference championships and heading to Chicago for the ACHA National Championships.

Clearly a hockey team would have many regional advantages for us and would get a good fan following. Baseball however would be my choice.

We spend the winter in North Myrtle Beach and have been going to Coastal Carolina games in their new $15.1 million stadium. It is better than any MiLB stadium in which I have watched a game. The Chanticleers are ranked in the top 20 nationally. Collegiate baseball has a completely different power structure.

SU could field a competitive team.

 

[Crusty]

It's a way to get a few early season games in, but how long can they actually spend on a southern swing? A week...ten days? Then they come home to battle the lingering winter. They have to move back inside or practice in the snow upon return. Meanwhile most of the other ACC schools save BC and Pitt are enjoying more moderate temperatures and likely dry ground enabling them to get outside and practice. And that southern swing costs them a good deal of money that can't go into other things that our more southern competition can invest in. Finally the scheduling would be difficult because conference games aren't typically one day affairs, they are three (3) game series. Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Zipping to Pitt for a Friday, Saturday & Sunday series isn't the same as travelling to Miami, Tallahassee or the Carolinas. It's not impossible, just not the same as if we were attempting to compete with teams in this same geographic region facing the same challenges.

By the way UVA kicked off its home schedule February 23rd this season. UNC on February 26th. Miami and Florida State both played at home on February 19th.

Ithaca's first scheduled home game is March 29th. LeMoyne's is April 2nd. OCC's is March 22nd. But those tend to be regional opponents, where its easier to cancel on short notice, as opposed to a team that has to fly in or make a major bus trip to get here just to take the chance that the weather will hold.

And really the greater challenge is probably practice time, you can back load the schedule to a degree, but the kids are supposed to be attending classes so you can't send them south for the months of January and February so that they can get the same outdoor practice opportunities in as their competition.

Not saying it is easy, but teams do it all the time. They practice indoors and many have turf fields that allow them to get outdoors earlier. We aren't going to be a NC any time soon, but that is the same for football. I would bet we would be more competitive in baseball than we have been in football for the past 20 years.

 

[Crusty]

The quality of Upstate NY collegiate summer league baseball (wooden bat) is pretty good. The Perfect Game Collegiate Baseball League ranks in the top ten with somne publications. The league started in 2010 with the backing of Perfect Game Scouting, the largest Scouting organization in the world. Players from all over play in the PGCBL and their reach is growing.

 

[Hoo's That]

Title 9 should be going away soon. Last year 60% of College graduates were female.

We actually have a "Male" college student problem, not a female one.

As per usual government intervention has gone too far.

Schools are creating imaginary roster spots to meet these requirements. There aren't enough girls to fill the "equality" mandate that the Federal gov't has (because, surprise, not as many girls want to play sports as boys...so we'll just lower opportunity for the boys as we lift the girls).

As Aerosmith once sang, "Dream on. Dream on. ..."

It. Just. Ain't. Happenin'. The bill to repeal the law (it's not just a regulation that someone dreamed up) would never even come up for hearings in a committee let alone for a vote. Too many legislators are women or have daughters to even have it considered. As it is, the Department of Education feels it is cutting the colleges a ton of slack through their current interpretation that you mock and haven't gone in for strict enforcement of the percentages, which would probably leave football and basketball as the only male sports.

At one of my class reunions, it was mentioned that the largest (and unmentioned) affirmative action program for colleges is letting in darned-near any male students. UVa would be 70% female if they didn't have that program in place and went strictly by transcripts/scores.

 

[snowycuse]

Go the BYU route...place soccer in the PDL which bypasses the NCAA/Title IX and add mens baseball. You get to add a mens sport without losing one.

 

[Dave85]

The Title IX enforcement folks look at the percentage of males/females at your school. The ultimate goal is to have the number of opportunities in sports (scholarships, roster spots, etc.) come as close as possible to matching those percentages. Ga Tech, VMI, NC State (because it is the engineering school of NC) and the service academies are at a great advantage because they have a majority of male students, so adding just about any sport for women keeps them in good Title IX shape when they add a sport for men. For example, NCSU could bring back its MLAX team and Ga Tech could start one "simply" by starting WLax teams at the same time. UVa is now 54% women (it was over 90% men when I was there), It would be tougher for us to add a men's sport because, even with the number of women's sports we have, the 85-scholarship football gorilla sitting in the corner pulls our M/ sports percentages down below the 54% for women. Rowing is "football for women"; it has the largest roster and the highest number of allowed scholarships (20) of any women's sport.

Interesting note, just about all the big-name women's basketball teams practice against male players. Those males count as female roster opportunity spots for Title IX purposes.

I love the goofy side note at the end. I hate to be one of those guys! Do they have to wear woman's uniforms too!

 

[Dave85]

Go the BYU route...place soccer in the PDL which bypasses the NCAA/Title IX and add mens baseball. You get to add a mens sport without losing one.

We just need to invent a really cool woman's sport that we can give out a lot of scholarships for and not feel Pitino about it.

 

[Hoo's That]

Go the BYU route...place soccer in the PDL which bypasses the NCAA/Title IX and add mens baseball. You get to add a mens sport without losing one.

If the school sponsors it (as opposed to being a club sport) it counts against the Title IX numbers. Your men's rowing team counts in your numbers even though it's in the IRA and not NCAA because it's a varsity sport officially sponsored by SU. Our men's rowing team is a club and competes annually for funding with all the other student clubs, so it doesn't count against our Title IX numbers. BTW it's the oldest sport at UVa. It started in 1877, and was dormant from 1883 to 1966.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Two friends of mine, Greg Lowe and Mike Barlow, were pitchers on the SU team in the late 60s. Too bad we lost the sport.

 

[tipphill]

no one goes to the chiefs game or ever went to su baseball----that would be a road sport for su. save the money.