OT:atlanta has to be the worst 1 seed

[Eric15]

Dwayne wade is a hall of famer, so no? Those heat teams were legitimately good. It wasn't just lebron and scrubs.

Wade is quite possibly the 4th best shooting guard in NBA history after MJ, Kobe and Jerry West.

 

[longislandcuse]

True. How'd the Heat do this year?

Wade is a year older and Bosh had a life threatening health issue.

 

[General20]

Dwayne wade is a hall of famer, so no? Those heat teams were legitimately good. It wasn't just lebron and scrubs.

Wade was never healthy in the playoffs when he played with LeBron . . . not once.

Sure, if you look at the names, Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, then LeBron had some great teammates, but none of them ever did anything in the playoffs. They were all either hurt or just flat out stunk.

LeBron has carried some of the most awful teams you'll ever see to 5 straight finals (I'm including this year because its a foregone conclusion). There is a reason why Smith, Shumpert, and Mosgov looked like scrubs and were a last place team playing with Melo, and now they look great and are going to the finals playing with LeBron. Its not because Melo is bad (I still think he's a top 10 NBA player when healthy). Its because LeBron is so good that teams hardly bother to guard anybody else, and LeBron is quietly one of the best passers in the league.

 

[longislandcuse]

Wade was never healthy in the playoffs when he played with LeBron . . . not once.

Sure, if you look at the names, Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, then LeBron had some great teammates, but none of them ever did anything in the playoffs. They were all either hurt or just flat out stunk.

LeBron has carried some of the most awful teams you'll ever see to 5 straight finals (I'm including this year because its a foregone conclusion). There is a reason why Smith, Shumpert, and Mosgov looked like scrubs and were a last place team playing with Melo, and now they look great and are going to the finals playing with LeBron. Its not because Melo is bad (I still think he's a top 10 NBA player when healthy). Its because LeBron is so good that teams hardly bother to guard anybody else, and LeBron is quietly one of the best passers in the league.

Melo and Mosgov never played with each other.

JR is more a byproduct of getting out of NY (as in the literal location). Even Brian Windhorst, who i abhor, had a stat that says JR Smith actually shot better with NY but winning changes perception.

Ill give you Shumpert, although Shumpert played pretty good in the Knicks last playoff series with Melo as well. Unfortunately all we had was Melo and Shump and our versions of Delly, Jones, Thompson etc, couldn't make layups or wide open shots.

Ill give Lebron his due as being right there with Kobe as second to MJ in my lifetime, even though he's not tough and is a whiny little punk b***h, but don't try to make this a referendum on Melo. Melo has never had a team as talented as the currently constructed and injured Cavs team aside from the Denver year he went to the WCF. That may sound crazy to you but Melo has had some really awful supporting casts. I'm hoping against hope that Phil Jackson can stop sucking at his job and actually get him some help so we can properly evaluate Melo for once.

 

[General20]

Melo and Mosgov never played with each other.

JR is more a byproduct of getting out of NY (as in the literal location). Even Brian Windhorst, who i abhor, had a stat that says JR Smith actually shot better with NY but winning changes perception.

Ill give you Shumpert, although Shumpert played pretty good in the Knicks last playoff series with Melo as well. Unfortunately all we had was Melo and Shump and our versions of Delly, Jones, Thompson etc, couldn't make layups or wide open shots.

Ill give Lebron his due as being right there with Kobe as second to MJ in my lifetime, even though he's not tough and is a whiny little punk b***h, but don't try to make this a referendum on Melo. Melo has never had a team as talented as the currently constructed and injured Cavs team aside from the Denver year he went to the WCF. That may sound crazy to you but Melo has had some really awful supporting casts. I'm hoping against hope that Phil Jackson can stop sucking at his job and actually get him some help so we can properly evaluate Melo for once.

I never tried to make this about Melo. I said he was still a top 10 player in the NBA (which I think most would consider generous). I totally agree that Melo has never had a good supporting cast. This is about LeBron James. Nobody can win without a good supporting cast . . . including MJ and Kobe . . . except LeBron.

 

[longislandcuse]

I never tried to make this about Melo. I said he was still a top 10 player in the NBA (which I think most would consider generous). I totally agree that Melo has never had a good supporting cast. This is about LeBron James. Nobody can win without a good supporting cast . . . including MJ and Kobe . . . except LeBron.

Solid point. MJ and Kobe have never led a group of above average role players like Lebron has. That's why I compare Kobe more to MJ than Lebron. Lebron is in the discussion for GOAT but has more Magic in his game than MJ, which is probably why he can lead a group of players like this better than I imagine Kobe or MJ could.

 

[Knicks411]

Atlanta is not "flat out bad". They beat some good western teams in the regular season and ran through the East. They are severely banged up, yes more than Cleveland, and it's showing.

Also, they've never been here before.

Not sure they are more banged up than Cleveland; Cleveland is down their second and third best players. Atlanta is pretty banged up, seems to happen in the playoffs every year to a few teams.

 

[longislandcuse]

Not sure they are more banged up than Cleveland; Cleveland is down their second and third best players. Atlanta is pretty banged up, seems to happen in the playoffs every year to a few teams.

In totality I'd have to say Atlanta is in it deep with injuries.

Millsap has been playing injured most of the playoffs.
Korver is out now.
Carroll is a shell of himself hobbled by injury.
Sefalosha has been done and everyone knew this was the series it would affect them.

Cleveland has Love out and a hobbled Kyrie which is big but Atlanta has Kent Bazemore as their only healthy guy on Lebron when they went into the season with a SF combo envisioned to guard Lebron (Carroll/Sefalosha). Hawks big men are hobbled but playing and now Korver. That's A LOT to overcome.

 

[Knicks411]

In totality I'd have to say Atlanta is in it deep with injuries.

Millsap has been playing injured most of the playoffs.
Korver is out now.
Carroll is a shell of himself hobbled by injury.
Sefalosha has been done and everyone knew this was the series it would affect them.

Cleveland has Love out and a hobbled Kyrie which is big but Atlanta has Kent Bazemore as their only healthy guy on Lebron when they went into the season with a SF combo envisioned to guard Lebron (Carroll/Sefalosha). Hawks big men are hobbled but playing and now Korver. That's A LOT to overcome.

No doubt Atlanta has a ton to overcome. (I also wasn't counting Korver yet just because Cleveland is already up 2-0 with Korver playing). I just think Cleveland down their second and third best guys might be bigger. But they still have Lebron.

Obviously some of these injuries are flukes (Thabo, Love) but I imagine a lot of them are because of the wear and tear of the long season. Doubt we'll see the season shortened but it makes you think.

 

[44cuse]

so you are saying the playoffs are good based on games between a bunch of teams that are out?

Ahhhhh...yes. That is actually what I am saying.

The "Playoffs" are not one game or one series. They are multiple games and multiple series.

44cuse

 

[OttoinGrotto]

LeBron has carried some of the most awful teams you'll ever see to 5 straight finals (I'm including this year because its a foregone conclusion).

He has to win the playoff series he's in, but Lebron's playoff success is also due in large part I think to the road he gets through the playoffs by virtue of being in the East. Kobe's and Duncan's accomplishments are greater to me because of that - they made it through the meat grinder West time and again. Lebron's on a great streak, but it's against NBA JV.

Lebron knows if his team can get a 1 or 2 seed in the East they won't be challenged until the Conference finals.

 

[Knicks411]

He has to win the playoff series he's in, but Lebron's playoff success is also due in large part I think to the road he gets through the playoffs by virtue of being in the East. Kobe's and Duncan's accomplishments are greater to me because of that - they made it through the meat grinder West time and again. Lebron's on a great streak, but it's against NBA JV.

Lebron knows if his team can get a 1 or 2 seed in the East they won't be challenged until the Conference finals.

There's obviously a lot to that. 5 finals runs in a row is still pretty incredible. 2007 is the most obvious example of this, and maybe this year as well. I doubt Cleveland gets through the west this year with all the injuries they've encountered.

That being said, 30 years later, no one seems to hold it against Magic how weak the west was a lot of those years

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I don't either. I think the Warriors are better equipped to handle the Cavs roster vs the Pelicans though.

Will James guard Steph?

 

[General20]

There's obviously a lot to that. 5 finals runs in a row is still pretty incredible. 2007 is the most obvious example of this, and maybe this year as well. I doubt Cleveland gets through the west this year with all the injuries they've encountered.

That being said, 30 years later, no one seems to hold it against Magic how weak the west was a lot of those years

There is no doubt the West is much stronger than the East, but Cleveland's path through the East is actually not much different than Golden State's path through the West.

In the conference finals Cleveland is making quick work of a 6o win Atlanta team, who had a good record against Western opponents, but who has some injuries and is spiraling the drain. Golden State is making quick work of a 56 win Houston team, who had a good record against Western opponents, but who has some injuries and is spiraling the drain. Not much difference here. I know Houston gave Golden State a couple close games, but I can't take them seriously when they are letting Curry take six wide open 3's a night.

In the previous round Cleveland struggled to beat a big, tough, defensive minded Chicago team in 6 games, while Golden State struggled to beat a big, tough, defensive minded Memphis team in six games. I actually think Chicago is the better of these two teams (slightly). Mostly because Rose was putting up 30 in some of the games against Cleveland while Conley had a broken face and was struggling. Also Memphis has no equivalent player to Jimmy Butler.

The only real difference between Golden State's road and Cleveland's road was in the first round where Cleveland played a terrible Celtics team that really had no business in the playoffs and Golden State had to play Anthony Davis. But does anybody actually think New Orleans would have beat Cleveland? The truth is Cleveland would have come out of the West just as easily as Golden State is going to.

I wish both teams were healthy going into the finals, because it would have been an all time great match up. No team in either league in on their level other than a healthy OKC, which would have made the West very interesting, and made Golden State's road much more difficult than Cleveland's ever could have been.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Will James guard Steph?

I think shumpert. The problem is, you can be physical all you want against curry when he has the ball but he does his most damage playing off the ball and finding open looks off back screens and lockouts from good passers in green, bogut, Livingston etc.

 

[General20]

I think shumpert. The problem is, you can be physical all you want against curry when he has the ball but he does his most damage playing off the ball and finding open looks off back screens and lockouts from good passers in green, bogut, Livingston etc.

I tend to agree with you. I think you'll see James on Curry in important 4th quarter possessions because that's just what he does, but for most of the game he might be better used stopping Green from playing point-forward and allowing both Curry and Thompson to play off the ball. Those guys are devastating off the ball shooters.

 

[Knicks411]

Not gonna quote the whole post, but very good point about the Warriors path. I think they are a great team but they were fortunate to not have to face either the Spurs or the Clippers, who I think were the second and third best teams in the west

 

[OttoinGrotto]

There is no doubt the West is much stronger than the East, but Cleveland's path through the East is actually not much different than Golden State's path through the West.

In the conference finals Cleveland is making quick work of a 6o win Atlanta team, who had a good record against Western opponents, but who has some injuries and is spiraling the drain. Golden State is making quick work of a 56 win Houston team, who had a good record against Western opponents, but who has some injuries and is spiraling the drain. Not much difference here. I know Houston gave Golden State a couple close games, but I can't take them seriously when they are letting Curry take six wide open 3's a night.

In the previous round Cleveland struggled to beat a big, tough, defensive minded Chicago team in 6 games, while Golden State struggled to beat a big, tough, defensive minded Memphis team in six games. I actually think Chicago is the better of these two teams (slightly). Mostly because Rose was putting up 30 in some of the games against Cleveland while Conley had a broken face and was struggling. Also Memphis has no equivalent player to Jimmy Butler.

The only real difference between Golden State's road and Cleveland's road was in the first round where Cleveland played a terrible Celtics team that really had no business in the playoffs and Golden State had to play Anthony Davis. But does anybody actually think New Orleans would have beat Cleveland? The truth is Cleveland would have come out of the West just as easily as Golden State is going to.

I wish both teams were healthy going into the finals, because it would have been an all time great match up. No team in either league in on their level other than a healthy OKC, which would have made the West very interesting, and made Golden State's road much more difficult than Cleveland's ever could have been.

I disagree. Both Memphis and Houston had better records than Cleveland against schedules weighted to Western Conference teams.

Plus, no matter who Golden State played, they wouldn't have been able to let up. Even in the 1st round.

 

[PoppyHart]

I disagree. Both Memphis and Houston had better records than Cleveland against schedules weighted to Western Conference teams.

Plus, no matter who Golden State played, they wouldn't have been able to let up. Even in the 1st round.

The Cavs went 3-10 with Lebron out of the lineup. With him in the lineup they went 50-19 (72.5%).

GS: 81.7%
CAVS: 72.5
Rockets: 68.3
Clippers: 68.3
Grizzlies: 67.1
Spurs: 67.1
Trail Blazers: 62.2

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The Cavs went 3-10 with Lebron out of the lineup. With him in the lineup they went 50-19 (72.5%).

GS: 81.7%
CAVS: 72.5
Rockets: 68.3
Clippers: 68.3
Grizzlies: 67.1
Spurs: 67.1
Trail Blazers: 62.2

I don't care.

 

[44cuse]

Not gonna quote the whole post, but very good point about the Warriors path. I think they are a great team but they were fortunate to not have to face either the Spurs or the Clippers, who I think were the second and third best teams in the west

There is absolutely no doubt about this. As a W's fan, no one wanted to play the Spurs or Clips for different reasons. IMO the Clips were playing the best ball coming into the playoffs and the Spurs...well the W's just cannot beat them.

44cuse

 

[MSOrange]

There is absolutely no doubt about this. As a W's fan, no one wanted to play the Spurs or Clips for different reasons. IMO the Clips were playing the best ball coming into the playoffs and the Spurs...well the W's just cannot beat them.

44cuse

Speaking about the Spurs and predictions gone awry, I laughed my butt off when Gregg Popovich named himself head coach. I thought to myself "Who does this guy think he is? What an ego!" Apparently he thought he was one of the best coaches in NBA history. So yeah, chalk that one up as a loss for me.