OT. but NBA

[Cusefan0307]

I agree Lebron is the best player, but I don't think I'd vote for him. I can't decide between Steph and Harden. I'ver made this point before; if i needed to win a game tomorrow I'd pick Lebron first, but I think you can make the argument Steph and Harden have had better years.

Just a couple of points that support Curry to me are is he is third in adjusted field goal percentage (Deandre Jordan, Amir Johnson), 6th in assists, and fourth in steals. I know Westbrook has better Assist numbers and scores more points, but he also turns the ball over a lot more and shoots 29% from three. Harden's assist numbers are a lot higher than I thought, but Steph is just a lot more efficient compared to the two.

 

[moqui]

I agree Lebron is the best player, but I don't think I'd vote for him. I can't decide between Steph and Harden. I'ver made this point before; if i needed to win a game tomorrow I'd pick Lebron first, but I think you can make the argument Steph and Harden have had better years.

for sure . . . and add Westbrook to that list, too. But when adding "valuable" to the equation, Lebron comes right to the top, IMO. Not that the other guys aren't valuable, just that Cleveland needs LBJ more than any of the other 3 teams need their guys. In fact, in terms of valuable to their respective teams, Curry is probably 4th.

Getting beyond the MVP discussion, what is really great is the question of who is the 2nd best player in the world right now? In addition to Curry, Westbrook & Harden, there is of course Durant, and you have to add Anthony Davis. And the more I watch the more I think Kawhi Leonard is in that conversation, too.

 

[MikeSU02]

for sure . . . and add Westbrook to that list, too. But when adding "valuable" to the equation, Lebron comes right to the top, IMO. Not that the other guys aren't valuable, just that Cleveland needs LBJ more than any of the other 3 teams need their guys. In fact, in terms of valuable to their respective teams, Curry is probably 4th.

Getting beyond the MVP discussion, what is really great is the question of who is the 2nd best player in the world right now? In addition to Curry, Westbrook & Harden, there is of course Durant, and you have to add Anthony Davis. And the more I watch the more I think Kawhi Leonard is in that conversation, too.

I literally agree with everything you said.

Once you take defense into consideration, I think you have the correct pool of players.

 

[urban96]

another slightly OT post here. Kendrick Perkins takes 8 steps with the basketball

 

[Knicks411]

for sure . . . and add Westbrook to that list, too. But when adding "valuable" to the equation, Lebron comes right to the top, IMO. Not that the other guys aren't valuable, just that Cleveland needs LBJ more than any of the other 3 teams need their guys. In fact, in terms of valuable to their respective teams, Curry is probably 4th.

Getting beyond the MVP discussion, what is really great is the question of who is the 2nd best player in the world right now? In addition to Curry, Westbrook & Harden, there is of course Durant, and you have to add Anthony Davis. And the more I watch the more I think Kawhi Leonard is in that conversation, too.

You may be right about the first part, I don't really want to drop Curry because he has really good teammates though, you know? I also think Houston probably needs Harden just as much as Cleveland needs Lebron. And, for whatever it's worth, the Warriors are 16.2 points per 100 possessions better when Curry plays compared to when he sits, the Cavs are "only" 15.2 points better when Lebron plays. The Rockets are 9.4 points better when Harden plays.

Using the same criteria, if I had a game to win tomorrow, I would take Lebron first and probably Davis second.

 

[Melancer46]

Just gonna leave this here...

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Just gonna leave this here...

Love the Freak! The kid has a chance to become a Super Freak.

 

[longislandcuse]

Dirty or Not Dirty?...

Kelly Olynyck dislocating Kevin Love's shoulder?
I think it was a possibly reckless but not dirty. Big men tangle up like that all the time going for rebounds.
Kendrick Perkins going hitman style on Crowder was dirty but i'm glad he wasn't ejected. That's just playoff basketball.
JR Smith is such a punk. Dude straight up yoked Jae Crowder with a backhand MMA closed fist.
If you want to talk about dirty plays, the Cavs need to look at themselves and Kevin Love needs to stop whining about the league needing to punish Olynyck. You got hurt, it happens. Mike Conley is getting facial surgery today and you don't see him crying to the media about rough play.

 

[MSOrange]

Dirty or Not Dirty?...

Kelly Olynyck dislocating Kevin Love's shoulder?
I think it was a possibly reckless but not dirty. Big men tangle up like that all the time going for rebounds.
Kendrick Perkins going hitman style on Crowder was dirty but i'm glad he wasn't ejected. That's just playoff basketball.
JR Smith is such a punk. Dude straight up yoked Jae Crowder with a backhand MMA closed fist.
If you want to talk about dirty plays, the Cavs need to look at themselves and Kevin Love needs to stop whining about the league needing to punish Olynyck. You got hurt, it happens. Mike Conley is getting facial surgery today and you don't see him crying to the media about rough play.

I'm a Celtics fan but I can definitely see Love's perspective on the Olynyck situation. I haven't totally decided if it was dirty or not but I can see why he was upset. Seemed like Kelly didn't necessarily have to lock in like that, but it's easy for me to say watching from home. Like I said, I'm a C's fan so I'm trying to be objective.

 

[Melancer46]

Regarding Olynyk: I think he purposefully locked up Love's arm and yanked it. But I think the intent was to keep him from getting the rebound; not to hurt him. Dirty, but not really malicious if that makes sense.

Perkins was trying to send a message. Wouldn't be surprised if he's suspended a game for it, but it wasn't on the level of JR's incident.

Regarding JR: It seemed that Crowder was trying to get a reaction out of him, but he bit off more than he could chew. JR undoubtedly took it too far, but at the same time, this probably doesn't happen if the refs simply call a foul on Crowder for the two or three unnecessary shoves he gave JR immediately beforehand. I'd say he should be suspended 3 games, but we'll see. Much like being a repeat offender has to be taken into consideration, the fact that he was baited into it should also be considered. It wasn't a randomly malicious elbow like Artest did to Harden a few years back, but it was still taking things too far.

 

[jordoo]

Dirty or Not Dirty?...

Kelly Olynyck dislocating Kevin Love's shoulder?
I think it was a possibly reckless but not dirty. Big men tangle up like that all the time going for rebounds.
Kendrick Perkins going hitman style on Crowder was dirty but i'm glad he wasn't ejected. That's just playoff basketball.
JR Smith is such a punk. Dude straight up yoked Jae Crowder with a backhand MMA closed fist.
If you want to talk about dirty plays, the Cavs need to look at themselves and Kevin Love needs to stop whining about the league needing to punish Olynyck. You got hurt, it happens. Mike Conley is getting facial surgery today and you don't see him crying to the media about rough play.

You mention MMA on the Smith backhand well if you know anything about jujitsu that's what the Olynyck thing looked like to me. No reason to grab with the left and and twist/pull when you already have the shoulder locked up by having the right arm over it and hooked under holding on. He isolated the joint with one arm and pulled it out with the other. That pull with the shoulder locked up and angled down is what caused the dislocation.

 

[Knicks411]

It looked to me like Olynk may have yanked the shoulder a little more than you'd expect when guys get tangled up, but I don't want to say he did it on purpose without a little more than that.

JR was so bad after his last playoff suspension; I wonder if we see the same thign this year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It looked to me like Olynk may have yanked the shoulder a little more than you'd expect when guys get tangled up, but I don't want to say he did it on purpose without a little more than that.

JR was so bad after his last playoff suspension; I wonder if we see the same thign this year.

That guy's a time bomb.

 

[jordoo]

Regarding Olynyk: I think he purposefully locked up Love's arm and yanked it. But I think the intent was to keep him from getting the rebound; not to hurt him. Dirty, but not really malicious if that makes sense.

Perkins was trying to send a message. Wouldn't be surprised if he's suspended a game for it, but it wasn't on the level of JR's incident.

Regarding JR: It seemed that Crowder was trying to get a reaction out of him, but he bit off more than he could chew. JR undoubtedly took it too far, but at the same time, this probably doesn't happen if the refs simply call a foul on Crowder for the two or three unnecessary shoves he gave JR immediately beforehand. I'd say he should be suspended 3 games, but we'll see. Much like being a repeat offender has to be taken into consideration, the fact that he was baited into it should also be considered. It wasn't a randomly malicious elbow like Artest did to Harden a few years back, but it was still taking things too far.

On Olynyk intent to dislocate the shoulder is questionable but he certainly yanked the arm when he had his shoulder joint isolated giving him leverage against that joint. There must have at least been intent to cause pain. What is the purpose of isolating a joint and then pulling attached limb away from the body at the same time?

Perkins agreed was an answer and message. It just looked like he wanted to knock Crowder on his butt.

Smith was a pretty blatant punch IMO even with his head turned.

I didn't watch the game so I can't really evaluate Crowder's play throughout. He always was a physically aggressive guy who could certainly pester opposing players and get them off their game though.

 

[Knicks411]

That guy's a time bomb.

It's almost like he realized he hadn't done something monumentally stupid so he had to make sure people remembered

 

[Cusefan0307]

If Cleveland is without Love and JR for multiple games against Chicago I think they are in trouble. They can replace Loves rebounding with Thompson, but their court spacing just got a lot worse. It's going to cut down on those driving lanes for Lebron and Irving. I think this next series goes 6 or 7, and I won't be surprised if Chicago can pull it out.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's almost like he realized he hadn't done something monumentally stupid so he had to make sure people remembered

Ah, there's your mistake. That kind of idea assumes rationality on his part.

 

[longislandcuse]

It's almost like he realized he hadn't done something monumentally stupid so he had to make sure people remembered

Almost spit out of my coffee at this post! Yea, JR had a similar trajectory with us that year. He's played great for the Cavs like he did for us but let's see what happens after his suspension.

As far as Olynyck goes...does he have mixed martial arts training? I mean do you guys think he knew what he was doing with his leverage and isolation of pressure points on Love? If so, that's a serious charge. I've watched many under the basket tussles and wondered how people don't get hurt more often, it looked to me like they were tangled up (which Love likes to do) and Olynyck pulled on Love so Bradley could get to the loose ball.

The irony of Lebron and Love whining about dirty play when Big Poppa Perk is laying people out and JR Smith throwin reverse haymakers.

 

[longislandcuse]

Regarding Olynyk: I think he purposefully locked up Love's arm and yanked it. But I think the intent was to keep him from getting the rebound; not to hurt him. Dirty, but not really malicious if that makes sense.

Perkins was trying to send a message. Wouldn't be surprised if he's suspended a game for it, but it wasn't on the level of JR's incident.

Regarding JR: It seemed that Crowder was trying to get a reaction out of him, but he bit off more than he could chew. JR undoubtedly took it too far, but at the same time, this probably doesn't happen if the refs simply call a foul on Crowder for the two or three unnecessary shoves he gave JR immediately beforehand. I'd say he should be suspended 3 games, but we'll see. Much like being a repeat offender has to be taken into consideration, the fact that he was baited into it should also be considered. It wasn't a randomly malicious elbow like Artest did to Harden a few years back, but it was still taking things too far.

I heard a great topic on this driving home late last night and they mentioned how these powerhouse teams are hurt by the 7 game first round series because they are forced to play at least 4 games against an overmatched team and when teams are overmatched in the playoffs they tend to resort to chippy, rough play in an attempt to even the playing field. Definitely saw that in the Celtics/Cavs series. Celtics went into it knowing their only shot was to make it a streetfight and they did. Cleveland moves on but not without taking some serious lumps.

 

[igor]

if LeBron wins it all year, he'll be a knick next year. book ity

 

[jordoo]

.

As far as Olynyck goes...does he have mixed martial arts training? I mean do you guys think he knew what he was doing with his leverage and isolation of pressure points on Love? If so, that's a serious charge. I've watched many under the basket tussles and wondered how people don't get hurt more often, it looked to me like they were tangled up (which Love likes to do) and Olynyck pulled on Love so Bradley could get to the loose ball.

.

I doubt he has any training or even thought I'm going to dislocate his shoulder. Certainly they were just tangled up but if you watch he squeezes down with his right arm (the one over Love's left arm) and then pulls the arm with his left hand. I just watched in slow motion and its more just above the elbow that he locks down on than the shoulder. It just seems if he were trying to pull him away he would pull with both arms and maybe even turn his torso at the same time. Holding one arm still while pulling with the other is going to at least stretch and hurt a joint.

 

[longislandcuse]

Also, KG did to Melo almost the same thing Olynyck did to Love a few years ago.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Dirk is a shell of his former self, one more game left in what has been a great career
I cannot stand Harden's brand of street ball, with the forearm shiver, chicken wing, lowering of the shoulder to create contact style of grappling. He benefits more than any other player from the star system of officiating that is practiced in the NBA, I could never vote for him as MVP.
Doc Rivers is an amazing coach, really getting the most out of Blake and that team to give the Spurs fits, what a great series so far, and they were blown off the floor on Thursday!

 

[Fireball Jr.]

I doubt he has any training or even thought I'm going to dislocate his shoulder. Certainly they were just tangled up but if you watch he squeezes down with his right arm (the one over Love's left arm) and then pulls the arm with his left hand. I just watched in slow motion and its more just above the elbow that he locks down on than the shoulder. It just seems if he were trying to pull him away he would pull with both arms and maybe even turn his torso at the same time. Holding one arm still while pulling with the other is going to at least stretch and hurt a joint.

Olynyck might've ensured there's now zero chance of Love maybe signing with Boston, which some "pundits" have seen as a possibility. He's my new least-favorite player in the league. Maybe he didn't set out to rip Love's shoulder out of the socket, but he did by holding on to Love's arm for dear life. Hope he cuts himself shaving when he starts shaving.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Olynyck might've ensured there's now zero chance of Love maybe signing with Boston, which some "pundits" have seen as a possibility. He's my new least-favorite player in the league. Maybe he didn't set out to rip Love's shoulder out of the socket, but he did by holding on to Love's arm for dear live. Hope he cuts himself shaving when he starts shaving.
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I don't know, knowing you have a teammate willing to break someone's arm in the playoffs has value.