OT-How do people watch National League Baseball

[Alsacs]

I am a Red Sox fan, and honestly am okay with the rules in the World Series being the way they are because they are fair to both sides, and not having a DH in games 3 and 4 has actually benefited the Red Sox more than the Cardinals because Allen Craig is one of the Cardinals best hitters and could DH but not play the field. Also, Jake Peavy and Clay Buchholz have been able to pitch to Jon Jay, Pete Kozma/Daniel Descalso/pitcher spot every 3 innings and allows them a breather.

However, how the hell do people enjoy National League baseball. I mean it leads to very boring instances instead of the American League where you have 9 batters in a lineup. Jake Peavy got out of a bases loaded no out jam because of the typical NL lineup. While an 8 or 9 hitter in the AL may not be great I would rather watch Eduardo Nunez/Stephen Drew/Brian Roberts/Kelly Johnson hit rather than a pitcher who can't hit at all. While their are some pitchers who are decent to good like Zach Greneke it just makes for a bad game. Not having the DH universal would be like in the NBA if the Western conference decided it didn't want a 3 pt line and games were played with different rules. I mean its dumb and makes NL baseball so boring to watch. I am glad I don't have to watch NL baseball year round or I honestly won't care as much. I like double switching and stuff, but its not thing special.

 

[donniesyracuse]

I prefer the DH as well, but I do suspect that National League games go faster, although haven't seen numbers to verify that.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm ok with the NL. It's real baseball that requires more strategy.


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[NineOneSeven]

I prefer the DH as well, but I do suspect that National League games go faster, although haven't seen numbers to verify that.

I would think the opposite actually.

 

[donniesyracuse]

I would think the opposite actually.

My thinking is that rallies will end quicker. Offensive games are long, pitchers duels are quick. My guess is that the difference between the leagues would be pretty small though.

 

[Marsh01]

The nl is boring baseball. Give me the DH every day of the week. Having pitchers hit is completely ridiculous.


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[Alsacs]

Last night shows just bad the National League. In the AL East Jon Lester is a good number 2 pitcher, but put him against NL competition he just shuts down these teams. Lester destroyed the Dodgers in LA in August, and has completely owned the Cardinals twice in the World Series. Lester couldn't dominant the Yankees, Orioles, Blue Jays, Rays two times in a row in 5 day stretch.

Only having to pitch 5-6 legitimate MLB hitters each turn through the lineup is amazing. The NL needs the DH it makes good pitchers like Lester look dominant. Clayton Kershaw is disgustingly good but he doesn't face AL East lineups. Kershaw is the real deal but isn't worth the 30 million the Dodgers will pay him because the NL just doesn't have good lineups.

 

[Knicks411]

It's amazing how no DH baseball ever got any popularity.

Lester destroyed the Dodgers in LA in August, and has completely owned the Cardinals twice in the World Series. Lester couldn't dominant the Yankees, Orioles, Blue Jays, Rays two times in a row in 5 day stretch.

Baseball reference isn't helping me here, but looking at 2010-2012, Lester had a 12.446 ERA against Arizona, 5.68 against the Cubs, 1.23 vs the Dodgers, etc. Some good starts, some bad.

Not sure how often he faces the same team back to bakc, but at the end of the year he went 7 IP 1 run against Toronto, and 8 IP 1 run against the Yankees. He started against the Yankees the start before that, 3 runs in 8 IP. And 1 run in 7 IP vs the Tigers before that.

April 7 7 shutout innings vs the Jays, , then 7 ip with 1 run int he next start vs Tampa.

The DH is worth what, like .3 in ERA? It's not a massive difference, though it's easier to pitch in the NL, of course.

 

[Alsacs]

It's amazing how no DH baseball ever got any popularity.



Baseball reference isn't helping me here, but looking at 2010-2012, Lester had a 12.446 ERA against Arizona, 5.68 against the Cubs, 1.23 vs the Dodgers, etc. Some good starts, some bad.

Not sure how often he faces the same team back to bakc, but at the end of the year he went 7 IP 1 run against Toronto, and 8 IP 1 run against the Yankees. He started against the Yankees the start before that, 3 runs in 8 IP. And 1 run in 7 IP vs the Tigers before that.

April 7 7 shutout innings vs the Jays, , then 7 ip with 1 run int he next start vs Tampa.

The DH is worth what, like .3 in ERA? It's not a massive difference, though it's easier to pitch in the NL, of course.

He faced the Diamondbacks and Cubs 1 time each at Fenway with a DH which extends their lineup of course as its tougher pitching in an AL ballpark. Off the top of my head as I remember these games at Fenway since I was at the Chicago one. He had like a 5 or 6 run lead and was just pitching to get innings and he gave up 5 or 6 runs in that game and Jeff Baker of all people had like 3 hits off him, but the Sox won by a lot. The start against Arizona this past July Cody Ross was returning to Fenway for the first time and hitter who destroys LH dominated the entire game. If Lester pitched in Phoenix or Chicago I am sure those lineups are a lot easier to contain and he pitches better.

I am talking Game 5 against St. Louis in STL, against the Giants in SF, and Dodgers in LA under NL rules Lester is filthy. Also, Lester has dominated the Phillies whenever he has started in Philly under NL rules with NO DH. Having NO DH makes a good pitcher like Lester into an unbelievable dominant pitcher. I get why pitchers who go from the AL to NL fair a lot better than they typically do the other way.

 

[Knicks411]

I am talking Game 5 against St. Louis in STL, against the Giants in SF, and Dodgers in LA under NL rules Lester is filthy. Also, Lester has dominated the Phillies whenever he has started in Philly under NL rules with NO DH. Having NO DH makes a good pitcher like Lester into an unbelievable dominant pitcher.

I'm just saying, I think you're really overestimating the impact it has. Guys switch leagues a lot and it's not like guys who are good pitchers in the AL becomes aces in the NL all the time.

Lester is a very good pitcher who is pitching great right now. (And his first starat against St. Louis was at Fenway). That can happen with or without the DH.

 

[longislandcuse]

How do people watch baseball in general? The sport is quickly falling more and more behind basketball and football. I've always considered it to be glorified golf but even people I talk sports to at work etc are quickly losing interest in MLB.

Who's the face of MLB?.. Miguel Cabrera? Thats a problem.

 

[Alsacs]

I'm just saying, I think you're really overestimating the impact it has. Guys switch leagues a lot and it's not like guys who are good pitchers in the AL becomes aces in the NL all the time.

Lester is a very good pitcher who is pitching great right now. (And his first starat against St. Louis was at Fenway). That can happen with or without the DH.

I don't think I am overestimating the impact Lester in an AL game is never going get through 6 Innings only throwing 69 pitches. His most dominant starts with the exception of his no-hitter against Kansas City have been in NL parks because NL lineups without a DH suck after the 6 hole, and the hitters don't grind him through the entire lineup like an AL club can.

The NL should just add the DH and end this crap. Like I said it would be like the Western conference getting rid of the 3 point line or make 3 feet deeper or something.

 

[Knicks411]

I don't think I am overestimating the impact Lester in an AL game is never going get through 6 Innings only throwing 69 pitches. His most dominant starts with the exception of his no-hitter against Kansas City have been in NL parks because NL lineups without a DH suck after the 6 hole, and the hitters don't grind him through the entire lineup like an AL club can.

I can't go through all the game logs but I'm willing to bet he's made it throgh 6 innings with 69 pitches before. And I think you're putting too much stock just in this one game. The cardinals are a team that normally struggles against left handed pitching, Beltran isn't 100%, Craig isn't 100%. Lot of variables here.

Most teams have pretty bad hitters at the end of the order, in either league. Obviously the AL will have an extra good hitter or so, no one denies this.

The AL had a 725 OPS this year, the NL had a 703. It's not a mountain of difference. The average AL team scored 4.33 runs per game, the average NL team scored 4.04 runs per game.

My guess is the NL is going to go with the DH. Not sure when, but it's probably inevitable at this point.

How do people watch baseball in general? The sport is quickly falling more and more behind basketball and football. I've always considered it to be glorified golf but even people I talk sports to at work etc are quickly losing interest in MLB.

For whatever its worth, I believe the ratings have been pretty good for the world series so far.

 

[BlackKnight76]

Far prefer the NL. Give me more strategy in my baseball any day.

 

[NailstheCusefan12]

How do people watch baseball in general? The sport is quickly falling more and more behind basketball and football. I've always considered it to be glorified golf but even people I talk sports to at work etc are quickly losing interest in MLB.

Who's the face of MLB?.. Miguel Cabrera? Thats a problem.

There were 2,426 games played this year and an average of 30,514 people came to each game. That's a pretty impressive average. People keep wanting to write baseball off for different sports. As I grew up, it was always the inevitability of lacrosse taking over for baseball (still laughable). Soccer has a growing American viewership, but the MLS is not benefiting from this in the way the league would like. Football is a different commodity entirely because it's a once-a-week event. People keep waiting for the demise of the sport, but I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Japan loves the game, as does Latin America. There are also plenty of young people who love the game of baseball, and personally the sport means more to me than any other sport. I follow the Red Sox more passionately than any other team I root for. In terms of this year's World Series, ratings are up 12%, and Game 5 just drew a 10.0. There were also as many as 10,000 tweets a minute being sent during key points of each game. Obviously it helps having Boston and St. Louis, but it also helps having the champions from each league meeting up.

 

[longislandcuse]

There were 2,426 games played this year and an average of 30,514 people came to each game. That's a pretty impressive average. People keep wanting to write baseball off for different sports. As I grew up, it was always the inevitability of lacrosse taking over for baseball (still laughable). Soccer has a growing American viewership, but the MLS is not benefiting from this in the way the league would like. Football is a different commodity entirely because it's a once-a-week event. People keep waiting for the demise of the sport, but I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Japan loves the game, as does Latin America. There are also plenty of young people who love the game of baseball, and personally the sport means more to me than any other sport. I follow the Red Sox more passionately than any other team I root for. In terms of this year's World Series, ratings are up 12%, and Game 5 just drew a 10.0. There were also as many as 10,000 tweets a minute being sent during key points of each game. Obviously it helps having Boston and St. Louis, but it also helps having the champions from each league meeting up.

Oh I agree that Soccer and Lacrosse will never be taking over Baseball. There's the Big 3 in America and then everything else. I just think baseball is falling into a clear #3 in the Big 3 and the gap between baseball and basketball is growing especially when you look at the marketability of the NBA now. The NFL is on a whole other level.

While kids want to grow up to be Peyton Manning and Tom Brady or Lebron James and Kevin Durant, I don't think too many kids are reppin Miguel Cabrera and Dustin Pedroia.

I just turned 30 and honestly I think baseball is beyond boring. Baseball is by far the most affordable sport to attend so people can go and just enjoy the day. Basketball and Football are more about the action. Baseball will never fall out of the Big 3 sports but they are falling further and further behind the NBA for runner up to the NFL.

 

[Knicks411]

Football has an awful lot of dead time in it too.

Football is clearly first. I think MLB and the NBA are pretty close though for #2. (I could be biased) The NBA is coming off an awesome finals and a great season. But this world series has been pretty cool, and a 7 game series would go a long way.

 

[longislandcuse]

Mike and Mike actually talked about this today. They did a breakdown of the NBA fanbase and the majority of it is under the age of 40. 30% is in the african-american community and close to 20% is in the hispanic community. They were talking about the growing popularity, growth potential, youth and diversity of the NBA fanbase. My worry with MLB is that a lot of the fanbase is older as it seems the under 40 crowd is gravitating to the NFL and NBA.

NFL has blown up with fantasy football. The NBA is growing due to Stern's decidision to market star power. I'm not sure if MLB has a marketing strategy long term to fall back on.

 

[Alsacs]

Mike and Mike actually talked about this today. They did a breakdown of the NBA fanbase and the majority of it is under the age of 40. 30% is in the african-american community and close to 20% is in the hispanic community. They were talking about the growing popularity, growth potential, youth and diversity of the NBA fanbase. My worry with MLB is that a lot of the fanbase is older as it seems the under 40 crowd is gravitating to the NFL and NBA.

NFL has blown up with fantasy football. The NBA is growing due to Stern's decidision to market star power. I'm not sure if MLB has a marketing strategy long term to fall back on.

I am in my 20s and love professional sports and watch pro basketball if its the only thing on but I hate NBA basketball. I hate the NBA because unlike MLB or NFL in the playoffs you don't have upsets. I hate watching a sport where the best teams get all the calls from referees and basically it comes down to who has the best player and refs. Honestly, the NBA is losing me because I hate this crap even though I watch. I can say no doubt I spend the least of my money on the NBA than on NFL, MLB or college sports. The NBA is safe though because of its world-wide audience unlike MLB and the NFL. Europe, Asia all play basketball and that will keep NBA revenues higher, but I hate the fact they market individual players rather than teams. If I wasn't over-saturated with Lebron James crap for the last 10 years I may actually like him now that his greatness is obvious, but because he is marketed himself it seems he is larger than the game which is a joke when you need good role players even with superstars.

Michael Jordan earned his greatness if you look at his seasons from 1986-1990 he overcame a lot more than Lebron and when Michael won in 1991 he became untouchable while Lebron has been untouchable since 2003.
The under 40 is gravitating to NFL no doubt, but the NBA isn't ever going to be in the same breath as NFL. The NBA doesn't become watchable until May as its season is played while college sports, NFL, and NHL seasons are played while the bulk of the MLB season is during the summer where they don't have any competition.

 

[Knicks411]

Mike and Mike actually talked about this today. They did a breakdown of the NBA fanbase and the majority of it is under the age of 40. 30% is in the african-american community and close to 20% is in the hispanic community. They were talking about the growing popularity, growth potential, youth and diversity of the NBA fanbase. My worry with MLB is that a lot of the fanbase is older as it seems the under 40 crowd is gravitating to the NFL and NBA.

I think there is some truth to that, but I think the baseball fanbase has always skewed older, that's just how it is. It's kinda similar to soccer; lots and lots of young kids play soccer growing up, so you look at that, and you think when they grow up, soccer is gonna be huge. And it has gotten bigger here, for sure, but a lot of t hose younger kids who played soccer move on to other sports as they get older. I think older people may be more likely to be baseball fans, but I don't think that means when they get older and start dying off, they're gonna be no more baseball fans. As the younger people now get older, I bet th ey start to skew more toward baseball.

NFL has blown up with fantasy football. The NBA is growing due to Stern's decidision to market star power. I'm not sure if MLB has a marketing strategy long term to fall back on.

I think for sure MLB has made some mistakes, especially with the way they seem to be out to vilify many of their players for PED use. (NFL does not do this) The NBA is incredible with the marketing of personalities, but MLB has done some really good stuff with digital media. the at Bat app is the #1 grossing sports App of all time (granted it isn't like all time is a long time here) and it's in the top 10 among all apps. And that's not just old people downloading it.

 

[longislandcuse]

I am in my 20s and love professional sports and watch pro basketball if its the only thing on but I hate NBA basketball. I hate the NBA because unlike MLB or NFL in the playoffs you don't have upsets. I hate watching a sport where the best teams get all the calls from referees and basically it comes down to who has the best player and refs. Honestly, the NBA is losing me because I hate this crap even though I watch. I can say no doubt I spend the least of my money on the NBA than on NFL, MLB or college sports. The NBA is safe though because of its world-wide audience unlike MLB and the NFL. Europe, Asia all play basketball and that will keep NBA revenues higher, but I hate the fact they market individual players rather than teams. If I wasn't over-saturated with Lebron James crap for the last 10 years I may actually like him now that his greatness is obvious, but because he is marketed himself it seems he is larger than the game which is a joke when you need good role players even with superstars.

Michael Jordan earned his greatness if you look at his seasons from 1986-1990 he overcame a lot more than Lebron and when Michael won in 1991 he became untouchable while Lebron has been untouchable since 2003.
The under 40 is gravitating to NFL no doubt, but the NBA isn't ever going to be in the same breath as NFL. The NBA doesn't become watchable until May as its season is played while college sports, NFL, and NHL seasons are played while the bulk of the MLB season is during the summer where they don't have any competition.

Nothing will ever come close to the NFL unless it becomes so watered down due to injury that it becomes unwatchable or gets boycotted. I can definitely understand why people might not like the NBA's model or product but it works. Ask the average person walking down the street to name 5 players from the NBA and 5 from MLB and most likely they will have a better chance at naming those NBA players.

I watched the NBA last night and I think I saw literally 20 Lebron commercials...not even exaggerating. The only time there wasnt a Lebron commercial was when there was a Blake Griffin Kia commercial or a Chris Paul State Farm commercial.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah I saw the samsung commercial 2 or 3 times and the shortened version of the nike one 2 times also i think

 

[dasher]

Is there any other sport wheer a amatuer is allowed to play such an important role? The pitcher is not a pro hitter. Why not make the QB punt on 4th down? I am bored to death with the National League. As for the added strategy. Yeah, there is. But it isn't like it is so entertaining. Oh look, a double switch.

 

[BuffOrange]

Well for one thing their games generally don't take 7 hours like every Sox-Yanks games. So there's that.