OT Knicks - I think either Woodson or Melo needs to go

[DoctorBombay]

Dolan needs to fire himself.

 

[br801]

the end game iso's were insane and not running an offense is why i hate the NBA, but in fairness to Melo, nobody moves, nobody was open, the knicks have no other scorers and the Chicago defense was suffocating.

That said, Melo's game is lazy, he needs to take the ball hard to the hole, instead he settles for long jumpers because he's lazy.

Yeah, in all the years I've watched Melo in the NBA, I've never seen him take it hard to basket, never seen him get to the line, never seen him follow one of his missed shots, never seen officials let him take pounding, and never seen him play through injuries.

 

[triplethrea]

Haven't got a flavor for the Nets yet this year, but in my trips through this board I see you are not alone in your dislike for them. Is it primarily the Boston flavor they have now?
My personal dislike for them stems from the fact that Jay-Z disturbs me,( and the fact that a guy like him has a lot of money) , and their uni's suck.

Not to get OT but why does it bother you that Jay-Z has a lot of money.

 

[Orangezoo]

The knicks again are trying to mold together new parts. Melo isn't the problem. JR is the guy who provides that second threat and I don't see that changing. If he can't be that guy it definitely restricts them. The problem I see right now is Chandler. He is starting to wear down and while he certainly is a decent center, he is not a $14 mil a year center and a guy who you have to rely on game in game out. They need another option there who can protect the bucket. I don't think they have that option. That is nitpicking though. They have some nice parts and as was already said they lost on a prayer from rose.. on the road in chicago.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I think anyone who thinks the Knicks are fine is kidding themselves or is okay with being the fourth or fifth best team in the conference with a 10% of chance of making it past round 2 of the playoffs. Who would accept that type of performance from our Orangemen?

This post is basically a continuation from last years playoffs. I think last year unfortunately was the Knicks window for getting to the eastern conference finals... a really old Celtics team, DRose out, Pacers still trying to figure out how to win, Nets having a pretty weak roster. Even given all that the Knicks couldn't win because their offense went to in the playoffs because it was Melo taking 30 shots a game and their D went to because they gave up SO many wide open threes and Chandler got owned by Hibbert. The only positive out of the first two games of the season is that Chandler is healthy but I bet he still gets owned by a real center like Hibbert. They still give up way too many open three pointers and their O is terrible and is more iso heavy than ever.

Given that the Knicks can't add any more parts they need to maximize what they have and they are never going to do that because Woodson doesn't know how to coach an offense and his D relies on way too much switching which leaves way too many people open. I think Woodson needs to go ASAP and I am hoping that they don't overpay Melo... for the record he makes more than LeBron I believe.

 

[phil77]

This stupid Melo ISO ball is a cop out for real problems that people go to...

For one ISO and ball stopping would be giving it to Melo with 15 seconds on the shot clock and letting him dribble around to find a shot...Melo getting the ball with 5 seconds and having Melo shot a long bail out jumper is not ISO ball that is our offense sucks lets give it too Melo before the shot clock expires and hopes he makes something happen.

It is not lazy Melo it is lazy Woodson and lazy offense.

Knicks offense is basically. PG and C or PF pick and roll. They try that a couple of times if that doesn't work they usually throw it to Melo and hope he bails out the possession. There is no creativity there is no easy shots there is no flow. That isn't because Melo holds the ball its because Woodson is a terrible offensive coach.

 

[LennX6]

Not to get OT but why does it bother you that Jay-Z has a lot of money.

I really don't like they guy. Totally subjective, but my opinion has no matter. He seems sketchy.

 

[cuseattle]

I really don't like they guy. Totally subjective, but my opinion has no matter. He seems sketchy.

I feel the same about Russian billionaire owner guy.

 

[baggerbob]

Two problems with Knicks right now JR out for 5 games , no shooting guard Shumpert will never fill the bill as a scoring option. The second problem is paying 18 million for someone who should retire, because he is unable to play, That's you Amare. They should trade him for a second round pick just to get him off the books.

 

[BostonOrange]

Last night's game was so frustrating to watch...

The Knicks go on a great run in the 4th quarter to take the lead and then the last 10 possessions of the game were isos to Melo and I think he hit 1 for 10. Also the best shot you can get with 5 seconds left is a that god awful three?

Either Woodson needs to start running an offense that doesn't consist of give it Melo for big shots at the end of games or Melo needs to go to a team with a coach strong enough to do that. Does anyone think Popovich would have let that bullshit offense go or would he actually try to run an offense?

Calling it now... Knicks will get a 3 or 4 seed depending on how badly the Nets flame out this year... win their first round series and lose in the 2nd round. Melo will then bail on his contract and resign with the Knicks for some ridiculous number that precludes him ever winning a title.

For better or for worse I don't think a team with Melo and no one else is ever going to win an NBA title and unfortunately for the rest of Melo 's career on the Knicks it looks like he is going to be the one superstar. For both his sake and the Knick's sake he's better off leaving New York because Dolan just does not know how to build a team.

The Knicks have no chance. They are the 5th best team in the East and I think there is a clear gap between the Knicks and the top 4. They just don't have the talent. One really good player and then a bunch of guys who would be the 4th or 5th best player on a real contender. I mean...who is the 2nd best player on the Knicks? Felton? Chandler? Looking at the rosters I don't think anyone on the Knicks other than Melo would be one of the top 3 guys on any of the other contenders. I do agree on the iso's though - got to be a little more creative and get Melo the ball on the move more. Just my opinion...

 

[strumpfasaurus]

Here's the real problem with the Knick's.

Amare and his god d*** 20m a year contract.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Anyone still think the Knicks are okay after last nights debacle against the Wolves?

 

[moqui]

Anyone still think the Knicks are okay after last nights debacle against the Wolves?

it's not a question of whether the Knicks are "OK;" its a question of whether your proposed solution of dumping their best player and/or firing their coach 4 games into the season should earn you a 5150

 

[OrangeFoo]

it's not a question of whether the Knicks are "OK;" its a question of whether your proposed solution of dumping their best player and/or firing their coach 4 games into the season should earn you a 5150

Not sure what a 5150 is but thank you for incorrectly summarizing my post and missing the whole point of it...

if you reread my original post the premise was that if the Knicks want to do any better than a 2nd round elimination then they need to blow it up and start over. Please provide any proof that I am incorrect.

 

[MikeSU02]

Not sure what a 5150 is but thank you for incorrectly summarizing my post and missing the whole point of it...

if you reread my original post the premise was that if the Knicks want to do any better than a 2nd round elimination then they need to blow it up and start over. Please provide any proof that I am incorrect.

They aren't going to blow it up. I understand what you are saying, but it isn't happening. Barring Dolan doing a Prokhorov special and paying Amare a giant bag of cash to not take his player option after this year, they are strapped.

They'll make the play to re-sign Melo and if Amare isn't coming off the books, they'll be stuck unless they are willing to run up the tax tab to gigantic proportions.

It's early. The Knicks will get JR Smith back soon, they need Felton's hamstring to be normal (not sure it will) and they need the headcase triumvirate of JR, KMart and MWP not to do anything too destructive to the team, either on or off the court.

The biggest difference between this year and last is two-fold:
[ ] consistently hitting threes
[ ] limiting TOs

JR may help with the outside shooting, but you never know with him. He's king of the long-distance two. And hopefully the TOs go down with some more time.

BTW, the Wolves are good. Rubio and Love are an incredible tandem and Kevin Martin seems to have his mojo back. Plus they don't have Kahn and Adelman is a solid coach.

 

[Knicks411]

I mean...who is the 2nd best player on the Knicks? Felton? Chandler? Looking at the rosters I don't think anyone on the Knicks other than Melo would be one of the top 3 guys on any of the other contenders.

Chandler is clearly the Knicks second best player and I think he'd be a top 3 player on most contenders. He was at worst the third best player on the Mavs team that won a title, and I'd probably go with second best.

The guy was injured and then sick at the end of the season and in the playoffs last year and he was terrible, but a healthy Tyson Chandler is a very good player

 

[baggerbob]

If the Knicks can't get Amare to leave, Melo, and JR will be gone at seasons end, no sense hanging around in a no win situation.

 

[Knicks411]

If the Knicks can't get Amare to leave, Melo, and JR will be gone at seasons end, no sense hanging around in a no win situation.

JR just signed a 3 year deal, I don't think he's going anywhere. And I really doubt Melo is either. They'l try and patch it together for a year and then hope to make a splash in 2015 with a FA

 

[BostonOrange]

Chandler is clearly the Knicks second best player and I think he'd be a top 3 player on most contenders. He was at worst the third best player on the Mavs team that won a title, and I'd probably go with second best.

The guy was injured and then sick at the end of the season and in the playoffs last year and he was terrible, but a healthy Tyson Chandler is a very good player

ehhh...maybe I am underrating him a little but a couple points: 1. That Mavs team was Dirk and then from guys 2-6 there wasn't really a hierarchy imo. Chandler's presence as a post defender was huge in certain matchups, and maybe stats don't tell the whole story with him, but he was 8 pts, 9 tbs, and .6 blocks a game in the playoffs. 2. I'm not sure that Chandler really exists anymore anyway. Only 32 but how much tread left? 3. IMO, on the Heat he'd be the 4th best player, and for Brooklyn, Indiana, and Chicago I don't think he would start. 4. If Amare was healthy he would be a great asset because they wouldn't need scoring out of that position. As the team is currently constructed just not sure how much he helps. Realistically they should look into blowing it up.

 

[BostonOrange]

Chandler is clearly the Knicks second best player and I think he'd be a top 3 player on most contenders. He was at worst the third best player on the Mavs team that won a title, and I'd probably go with second best.

The guy was injured and then sick at the end of the season and in the playoffs last year and he was terrible, but a healthy Tyson Chandler is a very good player

Ps On the other hand if the knicks want to go all in - we'll flip you Rondo (after he comes back and shows he is healthy) and Green for salaries and unprotected 1st round picks in 2017,2018, and 2019. Would a 5 of Rondo, Shump\JR, Green, Melo, and Tyson be good enough??? I know you are starting two SF's but they can both swing to PF, you have a rim protector, you have shooters, you have defenders...it is at least sort of intriguing.

 

[Orangezoo]

Knicks look like dogcrap this year. Another home loss and this time to the almighty bobcats

 

[OrangeFoo]

I think I might have been optimistic in my assessment that the Knicks will get a 4 seed and lose in the second round of the playoffs. Really bad loss to the Bobcats tonight and Chandler went out hurt. Good times.

 

[br801]

I think I might have been optimistic in my assessment that the Knicks will get a 4 seed and lose in the second round of the playoffs. Really bad loss to the Bobcats tonight and Chandler went out hurt. Good times.

Four games in, with new players still learning how to mesh, with their #2 scoring option yet to play a game -- hell, I'd say it's time to give up on the season.

 

[Knicks411]

Ps On the other hand if the knicks want to go all in - we'll flip you Rondo (after he comes back and shows he is healthy) and Green for salaries and unprotected 1st round picks in 2017,2018, and 2019. Would a 5 of Rondo, Shump\JR, Green, Melo, and Tyson be good enough??? I know you are starting two SF's but they can both swing to PF, you have a rim protector, you have shooters, you have defenders...it is at least sort of intriguing.

You can't trade first rounders in back to back years, but even so, i would not do that. Rondo is awesome, but Green is meh to me, and the Knicks just can't keep trading first rounders away. (Celtics would have a ton of picks, they ar edue 3 from the Nets, right?)

On Tyson, I think he's a great player. My personal opinion is that he is better than Bosh, and would be a better fit for Miami than Bosh (I say this about the team that has won the last 2 titles, so...). But the one issue Miami has is size in the paint, Tyson would take care of that. Not that it matters, h e's not going there anyway.

Tyson was not the same player at the end of last season, he was awful (back injury and then he was sick and lost some weight), and him getting bitchslapped by Hibbert was a huge part of the reason the Knicks lost. He was looking really great, like the Tyson of 2 years ago, before leaving the game with a knee injury last year. Injuries are absolutely an issue for him, but a healthy Tyson Chandler has a huge impact on games and I think he could, and has, played a huge role for a championship winning team.

 

[BostonOrange]

You can't trade first rounders in back to back years, but even so, i would not do that. Rondo is awesome, but Green is meh to me, and the Knicks just can't keep trading first rounders away. (Celtics would have a ton of picks, they ar edue 3 from the Nets, right?)

On Tyson, I think he's a great player. My personal opinion is that he is better than Bosh, and would be a better fit for Miami than Bosh (I say this about the team that has won the last 2 titles, so...). But the one issue Miami has is size in the paint, Tyson would take care of that. Not that it matters, h e's not going there anyway.

Tyson was not the same player at the end of last season, he was awful (back injury and then he was sick and lost some weight), and him getting bitchslapped by Hibbert was a huge part of the reason the Knicks lost. He was looking really great, like the Tyson of 2 years ago, before leaving the game with a knee injury last year. Injuries are absolutely an issue for him, but a healthy Tyson Chandler has a huge impact on games and I think he could, and has, played a huge role for a championship winning team.

Right - forgot about the picks in consecutive years. So we'll do 2015,17, and 19. The Knicks need to go one way or the other. The C's could even potentially take Amare back - Rondo only makes 11 and Green 9, and it isn't like we will need space to sign an FA for the next 2-3 years. Having watched Green for awhile now he is actually pretty good as long as you aren't expecting him to be one of your top 2 guys. And he could guard the Lebron's and Durant's of the world so Melo doesn't have to. And he has developed into a very good 3 pt shooter so he would help space the floor. He just doesn't rebound and isn't a go to scorer. Re Chandler I think he was a good player, and definitely a big part of the Mavs win (along with a lot of other guys). I just don't know if he is still that guy.