OT - LaTech WBB Coach Impregnates Former Player

[sabach]

I've not heard that this is an NCAA thing. Guy got caught cheating on his wife and resigned from his job so that he can fully concentrate on restoring his marriage.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Unless it started when she was a player. That would put it in the "what's the big deal about sleeping with your secretary? It was consensual. I think"...

It started according to sources when he was an assistant at Marquette. When he got the job at Louisiana Tech , she transferred there also. She's a senior now and played this season. Most universities have a morals clause in coach's contracts which can be used as a cause for dismissal. Remember the stories about Bo Ryan after he resigned? Bobby Petrino? Getting a DWI, drugging, verbally abusing players, having affairs that become public etc can all be reasons for termination depending on contract language. Summitt quit instead.

I can imagine having an affair with a player leads to issues of favoritism, coercion - like sleeping with the boss, military affairs between officers, enlisted personnel etc.

 

[MSOrange]

It started according to sources when he was an assistant at Marquette. When he got the job at Louisiana Tech , she transferred there also. She's a senior now and played this season. Most universities have a morals clause in coach's contracts which can be used as a cause for dismissal. Remember the stories about Bo Ryan after he resigned? Bobby Petrino? Getting a DWI, drugging, verbally abusing players, having affairs that become public etc can all be reasons for termination depending on contract language. Summitt quit instead.

I can imagine having an affair with a player leads to issues of favoritism, coercion - like sleeping with the boss, military affairs between officers, enlisted personnel etc.

That's not good news at all if she was a current player. You make valid points imho. A decision like that might impact his future coaching opportunities for quite awhile since he doesn't have the track record of success that someone like Petrino had that made him so easily forgiven. I read part of a recent article on his mom and it didn't sound like she was doing very well with her Alzheimer's. If she understands what happened, I can only imagine her reaction

 

[sabach]

It started according to sources when he was an assistant at Marquette. When he got the job at Louisiana Tech , she transferred there also. She's a senior now and played this season. Most universities have a morals clause in coach's contracts which can be used as a cause for dismissal. Remember the stories about Bo Ryan after he resigned? Bobby Petrino? Getting a DWI, drugging, verbally abusing players, having affairs that become public etc can all be reasons for termination depending on contract language. Summitt quit instead.

I can imagine having an affair with a player leads to issues of favoritism, coercion - like sleeping with the boss, military affairs between officers, enlisted personnel etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens when a woman coach has a sexual relationship with a woman player or male coach with male player. A college basketball coach was recently fired for enforcing against two lesbian players a team rule which prohibited players from dating coaches or other players.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ch-fired-after-suspending-players-for-dating/

 

[Cheriehoop]

It will be interesting to see what happens when a woman coach has a s e xual relationship with a woman player or male coach with male player. A college basketball coach was recently fired for enforcing against two lesbian players a team rule which prohibited players from dating coaches or other players.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ch-fired-after-suspending-players-for-dating/

Male/male and female/female along with male/female relationships between coaches and players have already occurred. The NCAA has gotten involved.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...mantic-relationships-between-athletes-coaches

 

[sabach]

Male/male and female/female along with male/female relationships between coaches and players have already occurred. The NCAA has gotten involved.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...mantic-relationships-between-athletes-coaches

The problem is that some are making the argument that, as applied to gays and lesbians, rules prohibiting players from dating other players and/or coaches is discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation which is a violation of Title IX. This is the very reason that coach lost her job. Texas A&M itself stated that the team rule against dating, as applied to lesbian players was a violation.

USA Today obtained a memorandum written by Catherine Smock, the school’s special assistant to the president for compliance, that indicates that an investigation found that the players were kicked off the team because of their relationship and that they experienced discrimination over their sexual orientation. The memo states that the team rule violated Title IX and policy within the Texas A&M system

What we may end up seeing is that players and coaches cannot date other players and coaches if they are straight but they can if they are gay or lesbian.

 

[Cheriehoop]

The problem is that some are making the argument that, as applied to gays and lesbians, rules prohibiting players from dating other players and/or coaches is discrimination on the basis of s e xual orientation which is a violation of Title IX. This is the very reason that coach lost her job. Texas A&M itself stated that the team rule against dating, as applied to lesbian players was a violation.

USA Today obtained a memorandum written by Catherine Smock, the school’s special assistant to the president for compliance, that indicates that an investigation found that the players were kicked off the team because of their relationship and that they experienced discrimination over their s e xual orientation. The memo states that the team rule violated Title IX and policy within the Texas A&M system

What we may end up seeing is that players and coaches cannot date other players and coaches if they are straight but they can if they are gay or lesbian.

Different situation prohibiting players having relationships with other players than a coach having a relationship with a player. There is no employee nor hierarchy responsibilities involved between players.

 

[longtimefan]

The problem is that some are making the argument that, as applied to gays and lesbians, rules prohibiting players from dating other players and/or coaches is discrimination on the basis of s e xual orientation which is a violation of Title IX. This is the very reason that coach lost her job. Texas A&M itself stated that the team rule against dating, as applied to lesbian players was a violation.

USA Today obtained a memorandum written by Catherine Smock, the school’s special assistant to the president for compliance, that indicates that an investigation found that the players were kicked off the team because of their relationship and that they experienced discrimination over their s e xual orientation. The memo states that the team rule violated Title IX and policy within the Texas A&M system

What we may end up seeing is that players and coaches cannot date other players and coaches if they are straight but they can if they are gay or lesbian.

I disagree with your conclusion.

I think the dividing line will end up being coach/athlete prohibited; athlete/athlete tolerated. This because of the "position of power" angle of employee vs athlete.

I don't think straight vs gay will be the controlling factor.

 

[longtimefan]

Different situation prohibiting players having relationships with other players than a coach having a relationship with a player. There is no employee nor hierarchy responsibilities involved between players.

Beat me to it.

 

[sabach]

Different situation prohibiting players having relationships with other players than a coach having a relationship with a player. There is no employee nor hierarchy responsibilities involved between players.

No doubt it is a different situation. But many companies I represent have a non-fraternization policy among employees, (not just employees and management). Applying these policies going forward will be increasingly difficult if the argument is they are discriminatory to same sex relationships.

 

[longtimefan]

No doubt it is a different situation. But many companies I represent have a non-fraternization policy among employees, (not just employees and management). Applying these policies going forward will be increasingly difficult if the argument is they are discriminatory to same s e x relationships.

So you treat both gay and straight relationships the same way.

 

[Nicknack]

Tyler Summitt, son of Pat Summitt, resigns after impregnating former player. Why is a 25 year old guy the head coach of 20-22 year old women?

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-b...er-summitt-resigns-louisiana-tech-women-coach

On the surface, a very good question, until you see a picture of the guy.

This may be the only gig that gets him so close to the action.

 

[sabach]

I disagree with your conclusion.

I think the dividing line will end up being coach/athlete prohibited; athlete/athlete tolerated. This because of the "position of power" angle of employee vs athlete.

I don't think straight vs gay will be the controlling factor.

It's not a matter of what is prohibited. Even if schools are allowed to prohibit coaches and players from dating (straight or gay), the question still remains as to whether a school should be allowed to prohibit players from dating each other. That question very well may come down to gay/straight being the controlling factor.

 

[sabach]

So you treat both gay and straight relationships the same way.

That's the problem. You cannot do that in today's world. The coach of Texas A&M Prairie View did that and lost her job.

 

[longtimefan]

It's not a matter of what is prohibited. Even if schools are allowed to prohibit coaches and players from dating (straight or gay), the question still remains as to whether a school should be allowed to prohibit players from dating each other. That question very well may come down to gay/straight being the controlling factor.

Well, I just disagree.

 

[Jeremy L.]

Impregnated? Guess Summit had himself a lack of institutional control somewhere.

 

[Cheriehoop]

No doubt it is a different situation. But many companies I represent have a non-fraternization policy among employees, (not just employees and management). I am assuming this is what the NCAA was trying to implement by requesting teams to not allow players to date coaches (and/or other players, staff, etc.) Applying these policies going forward will be increasingly difficult if the argument is they are discriminatory to same s e x relationships.

Difficult position when a company is trying to control relationships among co-workers. I met my husband and started dating at a summer job in college. I've been in weddings between couples that started dating as coworkers. If any relationship is affecting one's work, whether a coworker or not, it should be an employment issue. If an employee acts in an unprofessional manner while in or after a relationship , it's a totally different issue than regulating coworker relationships in the first place. If a company is focused on it by resorting to outright banning, it must distract from their business mission both fiscally and time-wise to investigate/ enforce.

That said of course most states are at will work employment states, so an employer can fire an employee for any or even no reason as long as it isn't discriminatory.

If student athletes end up being considered employees , it will be interesting to see if universities as their employer in at will employment states, will have the right to dismiss/fire them for no reason also.

 

[Alsacs]

The fact it appears the player was a current player is just so bad.

It kills this kid's future as a HC. He only got this job because of his last name.

His personal life is his own business and I don't care but you cant be sleeping with your current players when your a college HC.

 

[NKR1978]

It's not a matter of what is prohibited. Even if schools are allowed to prohibit coaches and players from dating (straight or gay), the question still remains as to whether a school should be allowed to prohibit players from dating each other. That question very well may come down to gay/straight being the controlling factor.

How many co-ed teams are there? Cheerleading and?

 

[sabach]

How many co-ed teams are there? Cheerleading and?

What does that matter?

 

[NKR1978]

What does that matter?

If you're a coach and outright banning relationships among players, I don't see how that could be anything but an act that discriminates against LGBT student-athletes. Straight athletes wouldn't be affected by the rule, since they date people of the opposite sex and thus wouldn't date a teammate.

Pokey Chatman was a very successful coach at LSU and had to resign over having relations with a player. As far as I know, there was no outcry that she was forced to resign because what she did was wrong.

 

[sabach]

If you're a coach and outright banning relationships among players, I don't see how that could be anything but an act that discriminates against LGBT student-athletes. Straight athletes wouldn't be affected by the rule, since they date people of the opposite s e x and thus wouldn't date a teammate.

Pokey Chatman was a very successful coach at LSU and had to resign over having relations with a player. As far as I know, there was no outcry that she was forced to resign because what she did was wrong.

Non-fraternization policies that prohibit heterosexual relationships among members of a company, etc. are implemented for reasons other than the morality of the relationships themselves. A non-fraternization policy that can only apply to same sex relationships because the group itself is made up of only one gender is not ipso facto discriminatory.

 

[NKR1978]

Non-fraternization policies that prohibit heteros e xual relationships among members of a company, etc. are implemented for reasons other than the morality of the relationships themselves. A non-fraternization policy that can only apply to same s e x relationships because the group itself is made up of only one gender is not ipso facto discriminatory.

If a team has never had that policy, but then it suddenly does, I think it would be hard to argue that it wasn't done out of animus or an attempt to discriminate.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Non-fraternization policies that prohibit heteros e xual relationships among members of a company, etc. are implemented for reasons other than the morality of the relationships themselves. A non-fraternization policy that can only apply to same s e x relationships because the group itself is made up of only one gender is not ipso facto discriminatory.

You make compelling arguments, but I think this is the best we can say for now:

Coaches sleeping with players: Bad
Players sleeping with teammates: Little precedent

 

[sabach]

If a team has never had that policy, but then it suddenly does, I think it would be hard to argue that it wasn't done out of animus or an attempt to discriminate.

In the Texas A&M Prairie View case, the coach who was fired said

The players’ relationship violated a rule that stipulated: “Players may not have nonprofessional relationships with other players, coaches, managers, trainers, or any other persons affiliated” with the program. The rule, Brown said, was written after an assistant coach was fired for having an inappropriate relationship with a player. The former players have filed a complaint alleging that Brown’s act was based on sexual orientation and, therefore, violated Title IX.

I can see why people want to make this a "they hate the gays" argument. It's a very successful strategy in today's world. It's just not there in this case.