OT - Lebron was a -32 tonight!

[Tony DeFranco]

• I've never seen a player considered one of, if not, the greatest of all time where the opposing teams' defense is to literally not guard him and play 5 feet off - can u imagine playing 5 feet off Bird, Kobe, Dirk or Jordan? Dude is a better version of David Robinson - stack the team enough and he's gonna win but don't wait around for him to keep scoring under pressure

 

[Knicks411]

• I've never seen a player considered one of, if not, the greatest of all time where the opposing teams' defense is to literally not guard him and play 5 feet off - can u imagine playing 5 feet off Bird, Kobe, Dirk or Jordan? Dude is a better version of David Robinson - stack the team enough and he's gonna win but don't wait around for him to keep scoring under pressure

LOL

San Antonio has done a pretty solid job bottling him up though so far, and he's missed some jumpers he normally makes. I turned it off when things got really ugly (like 20 points) but he wasn't doing a great job getting to the rim at all. Can we get more games like Game 1 and fewer games like Game 2 and 3?

 

[Eric15]

For God's sake, guys. It was one bad game.

 

[Knicks411]

For God's sake, guys. It was one bad game.

don't you get that every other great player in the history of the game never had a bad game?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Lebron played very poorly, but it's mostly a function of the Spurs in my opinion.

Pop= top 5, maybe top 3, greatest coaches ever
Duncan= greatest PF of all time
Parker= hall of famer
Ginobili= on the cusp of HOF as well

That doesn't even account for Kawhi (spelling?) who will be a future all-star and first team all defensive player, imo.

The Heat are up against the best NBA franchise of the last decade+, filled with veterans and serviceable bench players who understand their role.

Don't count the heat out yet. Lebron is the best player on this planet and this series will still go 6 or 7, imo.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

For God's sake, guys. It was one bad game.

But it was really, really bad.

James is such a unique do-it-all player. His talents are such that he is widely assumed to make everyone better, yet he also gets a pass if his team plays terrible. Just a transcendent talent in that regard.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[Eric15]

But it was really, really bad.

James is such a unique do-it-all player. His talents are such that he is widely assumed to make everyone better, yet he also gets a pass if his team plays terrible. Just a transcendent talent in that regard.

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I love Lebron, but I personally am not giving him a pass. He was terrible for his standards last night (although 15 pts, 11 rebs, 5 assists is a great game for 90% of the players in the NBA). He is the primary reason the Heat lost, along with the Spurs incredible outside shooting.

 

[Knicks411]

But it was really, really bad.

James is such a unique do-it-all player. His talents are such that he is widely assumed to make everyone better, yet he also gets a pass if his team plays terrible. Just a transcendent talent in that regard.

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I didn't watch the last quarter, he couldn't make any shots prior to that, but he was passing well and rebounding well. Which isn't to say he had a good game, but I'm not sure it was really, really bad. (If we're grading on the Lebron curve, based on what his team needs from him to win, then I agree; pretty bad)

But who is giving him a pass? He didn't have a good game, the team got killed, his 2-12 start was a big part of the reason for that.

 

[CorduroyG]

don't you get that every other great player in the history of the game never had a bad game?

but people are already putting lebron above jordan, or at least in the running for GOAT. if thats the standard for lebron, he cant continue to have finals games like last nite. and its not just 1 bad game, he was bad in the 2011 finals also. pretty sure i read that the finals are lebron's worst playoff round #s wise, thats a big knock against him.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It really seems like through the first three games the length of Leonard and Green is really bothering Lebron. He continues to take them downlow, but the Spurs more than most other teams 2's and 3's can more match his athleticism.

 

[Knicks411]

but people are already putting lebron above jordan, or at least in the running for GOAT. if thats the standard for lebron, he cant continue to have finals games like last nite. and its not just 1 bad game, he was bad in the 2011 finals also. pretty sure i read that the finals are lebron's worst playoff round #s wise, thats a big knock against him.

yeah well i agree people saying he's better than Jordan already are ridiculous.

I think in general you'd expect his worst round to be the finals, right? Usually his best opposition. And in 07 his team was clearly overmatched. That's probably too much of an excuse. His 2011 finals performance wasn't terrible, but it was certainly not fitting of a top 5 player of all time. (or pick your number)

It really seems like through the first three games the length of Leonard and Green is really bothering Lebron. He continues to take them downlow, but the Spurs more than most other teams 2's and 3's can more match his athleticism.

Yes, though I think it's much more Leonard than Green.

 

[Quazzum69]

I don't think Michael Jordan would have been any more successful last night. Going against four HOFers (including Pop), and really really good supporters (Leonard, Neal and Green) is pretty hard. The Spurs are such a great TEAM - great ball movement, great team defense, no selfishness. The only way you can beat that is to match their talent and teamwork, which Lebron can't do by himself.

 

[Ward]

It really seems like through the first three games the length of Leonard and Green is really bothering Lebron. He continues to take them downlow, but the Spurs more than most other teams 2's and 3's can more match his athleticism.

I think those two are doing a decent job but it has more to do with everytime Lebron goes in the paint the Spurs weakside collapses on him. Lebron knows this and is always looking for the help. Also, when Green and Leonard know they have 2 or 3 guys waiting to come challenge the shot behind them it makes it a lot easier to play aggressive defense on the ball and point of attack to challenge shots. The craziest thing so far this series is that Lebron isn't making his mid range jumpers. It's like them laying off him has him overthinking it instead of just shooting it. In the playoffs up to this point and regular season he shot really well from that area, but for some reason isn't in this series. I think the Heat were flat out embarrassed last night and it will wake them up. I really underestimated the Spurs. Heat fell asleep in the fourth of game 1 and let that game slip away. I have a feeling that game 1 fourth quarter might end up being what determines this series.

 

[Knicks411]

I was just checking some Jordan finals statd, fwiw. Shot 41% in the 96 finals, and 42% in the 98 finals.

Of course, my god, he averaged 41-9-6 on 50% shooting in the 93 finals. Not too bad

 

[CorduroyG]

I was just checking some Jordan finals statd, fwiw. Shot 41% in the 96 finals, and 42% in the 98 finals.

Of course, my god, he averaged 41-9-6 on 50% shooting in the 93 finals. Not too bad

yea his first 3 finals were off the charts. he averaged 11.4 assists in the '91 finals and shot 56% from the field LOL. his next 3 after the baseball hiatus he didnt shoot well but still averaged 30+. for his career in the finals he was 33-6-6 on 48% shooting.

 

[Ward]

Before I get absolutely crushed for this, its not a slam on Jordan he was obviously an unbelievable player. Just curious to hear some opinions because I think there are some real knowledgeable and insightful NBA fans on here. How do you think the increased usage of advanced analytics and advanced scouting helping defenses implement more sophisticated schemes would have affected Jordan while he played? I'll admit I'm too young to remember him in the early 90's when he put up insane numbers, so I figured I'd throw it out there.

Again not trying to knock Jordan just genuinely curious how it would have affected Jordan, or any player in the past for that matter.

 

[Knicks411]

Probably you're right, but cna you imagine him driving without all the hand checking?

 

[MikeSU02]

Before I get absolutely crushed for this, its not a slam on Jordan he was obviously an unbelievable player. Just curious to hear some opinions because I think there are some real knowledgeable and insightful NBA fans on here. How do you think the increased usage of advanced analytics and advanced scouting helping defenses implement more sophisticated schemes would have affected Jordan while he played? I'll admit I'm too young to remember him in the early 90's when he put up insane numbers, so I figured I'd throw it out there.

Again not trying to knock Jordan just genuinely curious how it would have affected Jordan, or any player in the past for that matter.

I think good teams could have taken advantage of the advanced stats and new defenses (like a SA), but the new rules now would have allowed Jordan more freedom, which would have been a nightmare for most teams. I honestly think he would have averaged at least another 2-3 ppg nowadays and probably a few more assists.

He was putting up those numbers against teams that were riding him really hard. Try to think of how many times in a game D Wade used to get to the line (in his prime) and now take those types of performances and exponentially grow them - MJ could have lived at the line now. He possibly could have hit 25+ FTs in some games now.

 

[MikeSU02]

• I've never seen a player considered one of, if not, the greatest of all time where the opposing teams' defense is to literally not guard him and play 5 feet off - can u imagine playing 5 feet off Bird, Kobe, Dirk or Jordan? Dude is a better version of David Robinson - stack the team enough and he's gonna win but don't wait around for him to keep scoring under pressure

What about Magic? Not that I'm in the camp of Lebron being a top five player, but he has a lot of traits that Magic had, much more so than MJ.

Magic wasn't a sharpshooter by any measure.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

How do you think the increased usage of advanced analytics and advanced scouting helping defenses implement more sophisticated schemes would have affected Jordan while he played?

I think it would have been more than offset by how defense on the perimeter is called these days.

 

[Gotothehole]

Some pretty amazing numbers

Jordan's NBA finals average - 33.6
Lebron's NBA finals average - 21.6

Lebron has never once scored more than Jordan's career finals scoring average.

Jordan has never once scored as low as Lebron's.

Lebron has 7 career sub 20 point NBA finals games.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't know why we even humor people with the MJ-Lebron non argument.

Anyone who thinks it's a debate, is either too young to really remember MJ, has a poor memory, or just doesn't know much about basketball. There is no debate to be had.

Lebron is the best player now, lets just focus on that. There's no reason to bring up Jordan's name.

 

[Eric15]

I swear I'm the only person born in the 1970s or 1980s that doesn't treat a slight towards Michael Jordan as if it's someone insulting my own mother.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I swear I'm the only person born in the 1970s or 1980s that doesn't treat a slight towards Michael Jordan as if it's someone insulting my own mother.

Personally, my entire confidence, locus of control and self-worth is based on His Airness.

 

[CorduroyG]

Before I get absolutely crushed for this, its not a slam on Jordan he was obviously an unbelievable player. Just curious to hear some opinions because I think there are some real knowledgeable and insightful NBA fans on here. How do you think the increased usage of advanced analytics and advanced scouting helping defenses implement more sophisticated schemes would have affected Jordan while he played? I'll admit I'm too young to remember him in the early 90's when he put up insane numbers, so I figured I'd throw it out there.

Again not trying to knock Jordan just genuinely curious how it would have affected Jordan, or any player in the past for that matter.

ever heard of the Jordan rules? I think if basically trying to injure him and knock him on his ass every time he drove the lane didn't slow down Jordan I don't think advanced analytics would have either.