OT - Southern Mississippi Band Members Taunt KSU's Angel Rodriguez

[EastCoast2]

Again, you keep using this flawed example to try & explain your position.
"USA USA"= NATIONALITY
"WHERE'S YOUR GREEN CARD"= RACE
If that wasn't the case & they assumed Rodriguez was a foreigner, they would've just chanted USA USA.
Chanting "Where's you green card" implies ILLEGAL ALIEN.
And they came to that flawed assumption based on Rodriguez's race & ethnicity.
Apples & Oranges.

"USA USA"= NATIONALITY
"WHERE'S YOUR GREEN CARD"= Nationality

You can chant where's your green card to a German, Korean, or Mexican. You're assuming it's because he's Puerto Rican.

 

[EastCoast2]

They mean almost the exact same thing. They both mean "you don't belong here in whitey land." Why do you think one is worse?

"Where's your green card" comes off as a joke.
"Go back to Africa" implies deep hatred

 

[PoppyHart]

FWIW, race and ethnicity are different things. The chant was an ethnic slur, not a racial slur.

 

[DoctorBombay]

"USA USA"= NATIONALITY
"WHERE'S YOUR GREEN CARD"= Nationality

You can chant where's your green card to a German, Korean, or Mexican. You're assuming it's because he's Puerto Rican.

-Sigh-
They look at RODRIGUEZ, and without having the slightest idea who/what/where/why/how he's all about, decided to chant "where's your Green Card"?
Now, as Poppy pointed out maybe ETHNICITY as opposed to race played the bigger role in this thing, but if you honestly think that they used that particular chant, against that particular player, for no particular reason...then I don't know what to tell you.
Look, you might have an aversion to political correctness, but hiding your head in the sand & excusing blatant displays of overt prejudice, is just being naive.
It was a racist/ethnic slur they tossed at Rodriguez, even if you don't want it to be. :noidea:

 

[AirForceOrange]

Poppy is right, ethnic and not race.

Also, these students were on scholarship as part of the band representing their school. Should have known better!

I believe they lost their scholarships as a result of being kicked out of the band. Their punishment was getting kicked out of the band, since they are no longer members of the band their scholarships are no longer valid.

 

[syr02esq]

I'm saying people are making it a race issue just to make it a race issue

This is offensive at any level.

 

[Moontan]

The punishment is too harsh. Losing a scholarship? Really?

Suspension from some (significant) events, community service and sensitivity training seems more appropriate. That's a typical punishment applied to student athletes... even those that have committed crimes or participated in inappropriate behavior on the court. Why should non-athletes associated with athletic events be treated differently?

The article includes the following, puzzling, statements:

Bill Chandler of the Mississippi Immigrants Rights Alliances said Tuesday he was pleased Southern Miss took action "to stop this overt expression of racism that was against a Latino."

"This demonstrates the ignorance of many people when it comes to immigrants whether they are students in college or legislators or the governor of Mississippi," Chandler said. "As in the past, public officials create the atmosphere for hateful acts in their pronouncements against people of color and others. It leads to latent racism and they need to stop it."

He's a U.S. Citizen. Why would a representative of an immigration rights group consider him to be an immigrant? Strange.

While the chant, in and of itself, is nationalistic, this particular instance of its use was most likely triggered by ethnic or racial discriminatory feelings by at least one band member.

 

[Mistakebythelake90]

I find this deeply disappointing. I am in SU's pep band, and was in Pittsburgh for the games with the band. On wednesday we actually ran into several of the Southern Miss band members on the bus on the way back to the zoo. They were incredibly nice guys, very friendly and down to earth. We had a decently long conversation with them and got along great. Funnily enough, on the bus, both of our tuba players were with us, one being a British foreign national who actually has a green card, and the other being black(not that either of these were remotely an issue).

We didn't enter the arena until halftime, so we missed when they did this chant, but I can't imagine it was anything other than a harmless attempt to poke fun at a player, just like uconn stealing laptops, devo hitting women, daddy's boy chants, etc. Were they classless/in poor taste? Yeah. Should they have been reprimanded? Yeah. Losing scholarships? No way. You hear worse coming out of student sections every game. Hell, at SU the band was ordered to stop playing the Hey song because our students would cheer, "Hey, You Suck - em up em up Go SU - We're gonna kick the sh out of you." You don't see St. Johns taking away scholarships when kids hold up photos of Laurie Fine...

 

[All4SU]

Tuba players!

 

[slidingdown]

"Where's your green card" comes off as a joke.
"Go back to Africa" implies deep hatred

I went to Africa once. I loved it. I can't wait go go back.

Does this make me racist?

 

[EastCoast2]

I went to Africa once. I loved it. I can't wait go go back.

Does this make me racist?

lolwut

 

[marz09cuse]

I think this was just an attempt at humor by a couple kids in their late teens early 20's that went bad. Why do they need to lose their scholarships over this? Seems like a pretty teachable moment in life where some other punishment could be met out and these guys could continue to be a part of the band, while learning about the sensitivities of racial/ethnic lines.

Everyone forgets, these are still kids, they're going to make mistakes in judgement while in college. I just don't understand the rationale behind such a severe punishment, effectively ending their days as band members and taking away thousands of dollars in financial aid.

 

[djcon57]

I think this was just an attempt at humor by a couple kids in their late teens early 20's that went bad. Why do they need to lose their scholarships over this? Seems like a pretty teachable moment in life where some other punishment could be met out and these guys could continue to be a part of the band, while learning about the sensitivities of racial/ethnic lines.

Everyone forgets, these are still kids, they're going to make mistakes in judgement while in college. I just don't understand the rationale behind such a severe punishment, effectively ending their days as band members and taking away thousands of dollars in financial aid.

This is great and all...but everyone is ignoring where this happened. MISSISSIPPI. They gave more ammo to the stereotypes I'm sure USM's admissions dept fights on a daily basis trying to get top students from around the country...and reacted the way they did to combat the national embarrassment (was a top article on yahoo, on Sportscenter). This was purely a PR and $$ decision.

 

[EastCoast2]

I think this was just an attempt at humor by a couple kids in their late teens early 20's that went bad. Why do they need to lose their scholarships over this? Seems like a pretty teachable moment in life where some other punishment could be met out and these guys could continue to be a part of the band, while learning about the sensitivities of racial/ethnic lines.

Everyone forgets, these are still kids, they're going to make mistakes in judgement while in college. I just don't understand the rationale behind such a severe punishment, effectively ending their days as band members and taking away thousands of dollars in financial aid.

There's also a possibility that by losing these scholarships, these kids won't be able to afford college anymore.

 

[EastCoast2]

This is great and all...but everyone is ignoring where this happened. MISSISSIPPI. They gave more ammo to the stereotypes I'm sure USM's admissions dept fights on a daily basis trying to get top students from around the country...and reacted the way they did to combat the national embarrassment (was a top article on yahoo, on Sportscenter). This was purely a PR and $$ decision.

But by handing out this harsh punishment this only adds media exposure to what happened... I didn't know this happened until I read about the punishments

 

[NKR1978]

I find this deeply disappointing. I am in SU's pep band, and was in Pittsburgh for the games with the band. On wednesday we actually ran into several of the Southern Miss band members on the bus on the way back to the zoo. They were incredibly nice guys, very friendly and down to earth. We had a decently long conversation with them and got along great. Funnily enough, on the bus, both of our tuba players were with us, one being a British foreign national who actually has a green card, and the other being black(not that either of these were remotely an issue).

We didn't enter the arena until halftime, so we missed when they did this chant, but I can't imagine it was anything other than a harmless attempt to poke fun at a player, just like uconn stealing laptops, devo hitting women, daddy's boy chants, etc. Were they classless/in poor taste? Yeah. Should they have been reprimanded? Yeah. Losing scholarships? No way. You hear worse coming out of student sections every game. Hell, at SU the band was ordered to stop playing the Hey song because our students would cheer, "Hey, You Suck - em up em up Go SU - We're gonna kick the sh out of you." You don't see St. Johns taking away scholarships when kids hold up photos of Laurie Fine...

Do you honestly think that band would have yelled "where's your green card" to Giffey at UConn? And there is absolutely no comparison to the SU version of the Hey song to what those kids did. And I guarantee that if the SJU band held up a picture of Laurie Fine that those students would be punished. None of your examples are even remotely analogous to what the Southern Miss band did.

 

[TexanMark]

You didn't answer the second part of that, did you? If "Where's your green card?" is acceptable is "Go back to Africa" acceptable? They seem pretty similar to me. And similarly racist.

Is Hispanic a race? If it isn't, can it be racist then?

To answer the long post below..my point is it was an ethnic slur IMHO.

I hate how people throw around the term "racist" for everything. Just my 2 cents and I agree the kids were jerks...but I don't agree with the punishment.

 

[mike32768]

It seems to me to be disingenuous to argue over subtleties like whether Rodriguez is actually from Puerto Rico or Miami or whatever, OR if the band members should have known that PR doesn't require a green card, OR if it was an ethnic issue vs a racial issue. (Really? ethnic vs racial vs nationality? really? does that matter? what hairs are you trying to split? who decides it's ethnic versus racial or whatever? Were the kids expected to know that subtlety as well? So an "ethnic" taunt hurts someone less than a "racial" taunt?)

The kids were being jerks, REAL jerks. End of story.

But here's my main point:
In my opinion, I believe that ANY person "officially" representing a team on or near the court (cheerleaders, dancers, band members, etc.) should NOT taunt. Period. Hell, I even hate it when fans taunt. I'd have been happy if the refs called some kind of technical foul - hold Southern Miss responsible in the same way home teams can be held responsible if fans throw on the court.

As to whether losing their scholarships is appropriate, I guess that's open to debate. Their being kicked out of the band seems appropriate until maybe you realize that means loss of scholarship, and that for at least some of them, their college careers (and thus perhaps the success of the rest of their lives) might hinge upon their having that scholarship.

o What would Southern Miss have done if there was a student section screaming the same taunt (in other words, students with no scholarships to take away)?
o Is Southern Miss consistent in how it treats misbehavior amongst its students or did it simply overreact in an attempt to bury the issue as quickly as possible (I'm not saying being politically expedient is always bad, but did Southern Miss back a bus over them)?
o While the school (IMO) has a right to give or take away scholarships as it sees fit, does the school have a handbook of behavior that it enforces or did it single these guys out just because their taunts went viral - I'm a big boy, viral is the current paradigm...
o Does Southern Miss take away scholarships from students who get caught shoplifting or drinking underage, or driving recklessly (deeds more dangerous or actually illegal)?

 

[DoctorBombay]

Whether Southern Miss took appropraite action in terms of punishment, can be disputed.
But none of this happened in a vacuum- this was the Univ of SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI, for goodness sake.
That chant had all the historical earmarks of many virulent stereotypes related to the Deep South, and you can be sure the school's reps wanted to leave NO DOUBT about their reaction to the taunts.
If they'd simply reprimanded them, how many critics would've complained that it was too lenient?
They nipped it in the bud w/ overkill to make it go away.

 

[mike32768]

this was the Univ of SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI, for goodness sake.
That chant had all the earmarks of every virulent stereotype related to the Deep South

No offense, but that's not a prejudiced statement?

If they'd simply reprimanded them, how many critics would've complained that it was too lenient?

Just as many who say it's too harsh.

But they'd be the left-most leaning (in general) whom the school fears most.

 

[DNABB5]

Was it insensitive? Yes.

Was it the same as saying "go back to africa"? Not really IMO. World's different in the implications and intent.

Do I really give a rats ass what happens to some band geeks from certainly one of the top 5 most overtly racist states in the union? Hell No.

This is just another example of the continuing pussification of America.

I would be really interested to have a conversation with Angel Rodriguez, and see if he was truly insulted. His comments didn't really speak to that.

 

[DoctorBombay]

No offense, but that's not a prejudiced statement?


Just as many who say it's too harsh.

But they'd be the left-most leaning (in general) whom the school fears most.

No offense taken.
And no, I don't believe its prejudiced to point out the history that's related to this kind of incident.
Mississippi & the Deep South have always had a rep for being, shall we say, more intolerant about other races & ethnicities.
Those are the facts, & there is a historical record to support that.
I will say that having lived in North Carolina for the last couple of years, alot of my own misconceptions about the South have been shattered. The South gets a bad rep, IMO, mostly based on that checkered history...especially from Northerners who don't know any better.
Motto: You shouldn't prejudge folks because of their appearance or where they're from. Something those Southern Miss students are now paying for.