Ot: the love/wiggins deal

[Timonen]

I think I'm the only person on the planet who thinks this would be dumb for Cleveland. You're giving up the #1 player in the best draft since Lebron! Your team will already be a destination for every free agent next year WITH Wiggins. Why lose him (and Bennett, and a pick)?

 

[Alsacs]

I think I'm the only person on the planet who thinks this would be dumb for Cleveland. You're giving up the #1 player in the best draft since Lebron! Your team will already be a destination for every free agent next year WITH Wiggins. Why lose him (and Bennett, and a pick)?

Anthony Davis say hi. This year's draft was highly overrated. None of these guys except maybe Embiid had the ability to be really franchise guys next season.

Wiggins is not anything more a good defensive player right now and who knows if his defensive will be top 10 in the NBA right away. If Wiggins is as good as you claim he doesn't only score 4 points against Stanford in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament. He has upside but nowhere near as good as your making him out to be Paul George, Tracy McGrady are comps to Wiggins and they took 2-3 years to develop. Lebron is 29 he wants to win now. Love is 25 going to be 26 and is one of the top 15 players in the NBA now. Love-James-Irving wins Cleveland the East for the next 2- years. Bennett was the wrong player to go #1 last year he has enough upside for Minnesota to get PT and not feel any pressure. If the Cavs don't deal for Love they won't have the cap space next to get a MAX FA because their extension for Irving 5 years 80 million will have kicked in. I do the trade now make Lebron happy and have Tristian Thompson, Dion Waiters two young players still to lead my bench and 2nd unit.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Couldn't disagree more.

Love is a perennial all star, double double machine, 3 pt champion, rebounding leader, 2010 fiba champion, and Olympic gold medalist. Oh, he's 25. That's at least 10 solid years to go.

Could wiggins be all those things? Sure, maybe. But love IS all those things...now.

I don't think it's close at all. The fact it took so long to say they'd trade him was shocking to me.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I said this in the other thread but if you have the 29 year old greatest player in the world on a two year contract you are by default in "win now" mode.

So you can either stick with Wiggins, hope he become a superstar in 2-3 years all the while making your window smaller for when you have LBJ in his prime. Or you take the guy who is already a top 10 player in the NBA at WORST who may not have even peaked yet.

I think it's a really easy choice.

 

[OrangeDW]

I always think it's funny how much hype Love gets, where Carmelo gets absolutely picked apart for not being the greatest player in the history of ESPN/Western Civilization(there, I worked in igor and Bill Walton).

Love has had injury problems, doesn't defend well, and has not made the playoffs once. He's not going to be getting 25 ppg playing with Lebron and Kyrie. So if he's scoring 17 or so...that's not as big of a deal when he's giving up that many too. And I realize that he is a very good shooter, but something about jump shooting big men who aren't that good at scoring in the low blocks makes me not trust them in games that matter.

Personally I don't think Love is better than Bosh(who it's now very popular to criticize and act like he's not that good...Love may get the same treatment once people actually watch him play ). Bosh had the great looking numbers in Toronto too, and he actually led them to the playoffs.

Trading for Love does not = automatic title for Cleveland. I think it depends on how good Wiggins actually is right now(because they are in win now mode). They don't need him to handle the ball or be a playmaker(which seem to be weaknesses)...just a finisher and defender who can knock down jumpers. I think he can do that, personally and I think he's a great fit for them...with the potential to develop into much more.

 

[Melancer46]

The reasons why I wouldn't make the trade if I'm Cleveland:

1. To make the salaries work, they'd likely be getting rid of much more than just Wiggins.
2. Even if they found a way to simply deal Wiggins and take on Love without giving up more, they'd probably lose most of their young players over the next year or two when they become free agents and Cleveland can no longer afford them.

To me, they have enough star power already with LeBron and Kyrie. Having a great team around them is much more important than having a 3rd great player and nothing else IMO.

 

[MikeSU02]

Load Bron up with a terrible defensive team and often injured squad of guys with 10 figure contracts? Where do I sign up??

It's not straight up Love for Wiggins. It's Love plus his 10 figure per year or Wiggins at the rookie scale.

Love would slot into the Bosh role and Kyrie would be the Wade role. And now you have no money and a horrific team on defense that relies on two "superstars" that keep getting hurt and haven't led their teams to anything to go with Bron.

Wiggins is a very good wing defender right now. He's great on the break. He won't demand shots that are going to Bron and Kyrie (and Dion).

It's as though people forgot watching what happened in the Finals and the Western Conference Finals.

You aren't winning with three guys. You need a solid 1-8 or 9.

Keep Wiggins. Let GSW trade the house for Love. Bron, Kyrie and Wiggins would rule the East for half a decade barring Durant switching conferences and have cap flexibility.

 

[Alsacs]

I always think it's funny how much hype Love gets, where Carmelo gets absolutely picked apart for not being the greatest player in the history of ESPN/Western Civilization(there, I worked in igor and Bill Walton).

Love has had injury problems, doesn't defend well, and has not made the playoffs once. He's not going to be getting 25 ppg playing with Lebron and Kyrie. So if he's scoring 17 or so...that's not as big of a deal when he's giving up that many too. And I realize that he is a very good shooter, but something about jump shooting big men who aren't that good at scoring in the low blocks makes me not trust them in games that matter.

Personally I don't think Love is better than Bosh. Bosh had the great looking numbers in Toronto too, and he actually led them to the playoffs.

Trading for Love does not = automatic title for Cleveland. I think it depends on how good Wiggins actually is right now(because they are in win now mode). They don't need him to handle the ball or be a playmaker(which seem to be weaknesses)...just a finisher and defender who can knock down jumpers. I think he can do that, personally and I think he's a great fit for them...with the potential to develop into much more.

How layups a game would Love be good for throwing outlets to Irving/Lebron? Love's passing is off the charts. His defensive isn't elite but its not Carmelo bad. Love is only 25 right now and while he doesn't guarantee Cleveland a title he gets them out of the East where they only have to beat 1 Western team to win a title. Love is better than Bosh. Bosh is a 6'10 shooting guard while Love rebounds, rebounds, rebounds some more. Bosh went games in the playoffs without getting more than 1 or 2 rebounds. If Cleveland was smart they make this trade as I don't think Wiggins is as good as his hype was befor ehe college basketball season.

 

[Alsacs]

Sideshow Bob is a better rim protector than Birdman. The Cavs have to just get out of the East then the Finals are always a coin flip. Love is better than Bosh. Love goes down low and grabs boards unlike Bosh. Irving is younger than Wade. I think if the Cavs trade for Love they get out of the East with Wiggins Chicago could beat Cleveland.

 

[MikeSU02]

How layups a game would Love be good for throwing outlets to Irving/Lebron? Love's passing is off the charts. His defensive isn't elite but its not Carmelo bad. Love is only 25 right now and while he doesn't guarantee Cleveland a title he gets them out of the East where they only have to beat 1 Western team to win a title. Love is better than Bosh. Bosh is a 6'10 shooting guard while Love rebounds, rebounds, rebounds some more. Bosh went games in the playoffs without getting more than 1 or 2 rebounds. If Cleveland was smart they make this trade as I don't think Wiggins is as good as his hype was befor ehe college basketball season.

Love is a big that can't protect the rim and can't guard the wing.

That team could not stop any runs.

Bosh became a shooter because that's where he ended up in the scheme and that's exactly where Love will end up, which will also bring down his rebounding numbers.

Oh, and they will be cap strapped.

 

[OrangeDW]

How layups a game would Love be good for throwing outlets to Irving/Lebron? Love's passing is off the charts. His defensive isn't elite but its not Carmelo bad. Love is only 25 right now and while he doesn't guarantee Cleveland a title he gets them out of the East where they only have to beat 1 Western team to win a title. Love is better than Bosh. Bosh is a 6'10 shooting guard while Love rebounds, rebounds, rebounds some more. Bosh went games in the playoffs without getting more than 1 or 2 rebounds. If Cleveland was smart they make this trade as I don't think Wiggins is as good as his hype was befor ehe college basketball season.

Off the charts passing = 2.5 assists per game for career(4.4 last year which is very good though). He's good but...off the charts?

Bosh was 10-11 rebounds per game in Toronto, by the way. If he's a 6'10 shooting guard(he shoots better %'s from the floor than Love, easily too) what is Love?

Love's numbers will not be the same in Cleveland, and his game will be picked apart the same way Bosh's now is, is my point(they are both very good players for the record).

 

[Alsacs]

Off the charts passing = 2.5 assists per game for career(4.4 last year which is very good though). He's good but...off the charts?

Bosh was 10-11 rebounds per game in Toronto, by the way. If he's a 6'10 shooting guard(he shoots better %'s from the floor than Love, easily too) what is Love?

Love's numbers will not be the same in Cleveland, and his game will be picked apart the same way Bosh's now is, is my point(they are both very good players for the record).

 

[Alsacs]

Bosh should have had WAY more defensive rebounds per game with Miami only about 5.5 drpg, while Love averages 8.5 drpg for career. Love's drpg have gone up while Bosh's have gone down. Love would be more valuable as those extra rebounds reduce defensive possessions and as I have said Love serving outlets to Irving and Lebron would probably be good for a minimum of 10ppg and probably more.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Load Bron up with a terrible defensive team and often injured squad of guys with 10 figure contracts? Where do I sign up??

It's not straight up Love for Wiggins. It's Love plus his 10 figure per year or Wiggins at the rookie scale.

Love would slot into the Bosh role and Kyrie would be the Wade role. And now you have no money and a horrific team on defense that relies on two "superstars" that keep getting hurt and haven't led their teams to anything to go with Bron.

Wiggins is a very good wing defender right now. He's great on the break. He won't demand shots that are going to Bron and Kyrie (and Dion).

It's as though people forgot watching what happened in the Finals and the Western Conference Finals.

You aren't winning with three guys. You need a solid 1-8 or 9.

Keep Wiggins. Let GSW trade the house for Love. Bron, Kyrie and Wiggins would rule the East for half a decade barring Durant switching conferences and have cap flexibility.

Miami just went back to back with three guys. Let's not go all priSoner of the moment.

 

[Alsacs]

By the way the trade is probably going to involve a 3rd team I heard Boston. What I heard is Boston would send Jeff Green's salary with Wiggins/Bennett/1 Cleveland first round pick to Minnesota, Cavs get Kevin Love, Boston would get a trade exemption and Miami 2015 1st round pick.

 

[Toga]

I always think it's funny how much hype Love gets, where Carmelo gets absolutely picked apart for not being the greatest player in the history of ESPN/Western Civilization(there, I worked in igor and Bill Walton).

Love has had injury problems, doesn't defend well, and has not made the playoffs once. He's not going to be getting 25 ppg playing with Lebron and Kyrie. So if he's scoring 17 or so...that's not as big of a deal when he's giving up that many too. And I realize that he is a very good shooter, but something about jump shooting big men who aren't that good at scoring in the low blocks makes me not trust them in games that matter.

Personally I don't think Love is better than Bosh(who it's now very popular to criticize and act like he's not that good...Love may get the same treatment once people actually watch him play ). Bosh had the great looking numbers in Toronto too, and he actually led them to the playoffs.

Trading for Love does not = automatic title for Cleveland. I think it depends on how good Wiggins actually is right now(because they are in win now mode). They don't need him to handle the ball or be a playmaker(which seem to be weaknesses)...just a finisher and defender who can knock down jumpers. I think he can do that, personally and I think he's a great fit for them...with the potential to develop into much more.

I don't love Bosh.

 

[stuckinbig11]

If I was an NBA GM for any team, getting Kevin Love would be my top goal at this point.

 

[Jack Hall]

I think I'm the only person on the planet who thinks this would be dumb for Cleveland. You're giving up the #1 player in the best draft since Lebron! Your team will already be a destination for every free agent next year WITH Wiggins. Why lose him (and Bennett, and a pick)?

I agree w you. Love has never won anything, his D is suspect. Wiggins in a couple yrs could be amazing, admittedly key word -could. But this is about egomaniac Lebron and his obsession w handpicking championship teams and trying to win a ship every year. He believes he can win one next yr w Love but not w Wiggins. VERY short sighted imo and he will regret getting Love if they dont win it all next yr. Most especially if they cant play championship D. Imo Wiggins will be a great defensive player, maybe on Pippens level...

 

[Jack Hall]

Load Bron up with a terrible defensive team and often injured squad of guys with 10 figure contracts? Where do I sign up??

It's not straight up Love for Wiggins. It's Love plus his 10 figure per year or Wiggins at the rookie scale.

Love would slot into the Bosh role and Kyrie would be the Wade role. And now you have no money and a horrific team on defense that relies on two "superstars" that keep getting hurt and haven't led their teams to anything to go with Bron.

Wiggins is a very good wing defender right now. He's great on the break. He won't demand shots that are going to Bron and Kyrie (and Dion).

It's as though people forgot watching what happened in the Finals and the Western Conference Finals.

You aren't winning with three guys. You need a solid 1-8 or 9.

Keep Wiggins. Let GSW trade the house for Love. Bron, Kyrie and Wiggins would rule the East for half a decade barring Durant switching conferences and have cap flexibility.

Think about Wiggins defensive potential. Especially if bronbron is running the offensive show and the ball isnt in Wiggins hands much. He will have little choice but to really focus on his D. Just like Pippens role and they have similar length and quickness...only wiggins has better offensive potential that SP

 

[Full_Rebar]

Here's why Cleveland makes the trade- you don't waste Lebron's prime waiting for young players, and when he can opt out in 2 yeas. This is a chance for Cleveland to win a title and convince Lebron to stay to finish his career, which makes huge $ for Gilbert. For all the talk about Love's defense, Miami went to 4 straight Finals without a great wing defender, rim protector, and deep bench. I am not someone who thinks Love is a top 5 NBA player, but he's certainly in the top 10.

Love isn't a great lead dog, but as a #2 he'd be the best #2 option in the NBA by far. His game allows Lebron space and the ability to play more in the post if he wants. Love with Kyrie or Lebron in a pick and roll game is nasty. Love is a good defensive rebounder and he is a good enough scorer that Lebron doesn't have to kill himself in the regular season. Imagine a 4th quarter line-up of Kyrie/Dion/Miller/Lebron/Love...which player are you going to leave open to double Lebron?

Let's face it, vets are willing to take less to play with Lebron so filling holes can be done without a lot of salary involved. Aminu is a guy that many consider a bust, but is very good on defense and right now is available. If Cleveland only trades Wiggins/Bennett they would still have the possibility of trading Dion to cover other needs.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I agree w you. Love has never won anything, his D is suspect. Wiggins in a couple yrs could be amazing, admittedly key word -could. But this is about egomaniac Lebron and his obsession w handpicking championship teams and trying to win a ship every year. He believes he can win one next yr w Love but not w Wiggins. VERY short sighted imo and he will regret getting Love if they dont win it all next yr. Most especially if they cant play championship D. Imo Wiggins will be a great defensive player, maybe on Pippens level...

So Wiggins MIGHT be a great defender and MIGHT be great Ina couple years. Meanwhile you just squandered 2-3 years of LBJ in his prime.

The stuff about Lebron and his ego is just conjecture.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Love is, as they say, a looter in a riot. player who puts up big numbers on not so good. teams. He's a good player, but he's being talked about as if he is some guy who puts cleveland in the drivers seat for a championship. nope.

wiggins is already an elite defender and , lets not forget, this is basketball, not baseball, he can come out day one and be a dominant force.

 

[osullfam]

I like the trade, but put everything else to the side and assume that both are equally good at their respective positions. The Cav's have a much bigger void at 4 than they do at 2.

 

[Jack Hall]

So Wiggins MIGHT be a great defender and MIGHT be great Ina couple years. Meanwhile you just squandered 2-3 years of LBJ in his prime.

The stuff about Lebron and his ego is just conjecture.

Love hasnt won anything, so most of the stuff about him is conjecture too. We shall see who plays at a dominant level on a good team first....my feeling is the cavs will grab Love, if so he gets a perfect opp to prove himself next yr...i personally would kill to see Wiggins and Lebron play together in two yrs but todays world is all about instant gratification, as evidenced by Lebron joining up w dwade and bosh in miami as opposed to staying in cleveland 4 yrs ago (if its the "right" thing now why wasnt it the right thing then?). Its the old yankees model that worked so well, dont build a team over time, just go to the team that will sign as many "superstars" as possible. And yes AW might take time. Lebron aint interested. Fair enough. Doesnt change the fact, if you look at his record in the finals it will never be what MJ, Kobes or Russel' s were.

 

[Jack Hall]

I like the trade, but put everything else to the side and assume that both are equally good at their respective positions. The Cav's have a much bigger void at 4 than they do at 2.

Wiggins is no 2. You can list him there but he is a classic 3. LbJ can play 4 if needbe. Is there anyone stronger than him around the basket?