OT: This WS is getting weirder and weirder...

[Tobias Funke]

McCarver is a complete jackhole and always has been insufferable. He's basically a decent announcer but he treats viewers like they've never seen the game before or are completely inept in terms of basic baseball knowledge ('it's a two-run game, not a one-run game' over and over ... I mean, most of us can determine the score).

But what's funny is that he's such an old school baseball guy that he gets hung up on little stuff like that. Honestly if Napoli's not holding the runner there, he's still playing on the line to take away doubles. I suppose it's less of a hole on the right side, but it's still a pretty big hole for Beltran at the plate and even bigger if Pedroia has to at least pay some attention to the runner at second. It's just a pointless thing for him to fixate on in that spot -- especially given that holding him on, in fact, ended up resulting in the final out of the game.

I would be curious to see what St. Louis fans think of the pair. I find them close to unlistenable.

 

[billsin01]

McCarver IS an idiot. But, there hasn't been an adequate explanation for holding Wong on. The pitcher said he doesn't read scouting reports... That play was a convergence of perfect timings. Uehara spun exactly as Wong was making that silly hop step. Uehara didn't even see him hop. Just happy coincidence.

Disagree on this -- I don't think it's luck or a bad call to hold the runner there. I get what conventional wisdom says but Napoli is hugging that line regardless of where he is. Yeah, he has more range if he's four or five steps behind the runner, but there is a big hole on the right side no matter where he's playing.

And in some ways, doesn't the end justify the means in this case? You know Koji has quick feet and a good move (the part of this that is underplayed is how quick the move was and how accurate the throw was -- not insignificant parts of that play) and you know Wong is a young runner who's going to try and be aggressive there (whether or not he runs). And, in the end, it all added up to basically not having to throw Beltran anything he could hit. There's luck in terms of timing and maybe a slight slip (though I didn't really see a slip), but I fail to see where the Sox were sacrificing much defensively in terms of holding him on. Especially since holding him on ended up in the pickoff.

 

[Knicks411]

Do you really need to play no doubles defense? I'll admit I missed the end of the game, but it was a 2 run game and they had a guy on first; you don't need to guard the line there, do you? If you give up a double and Wong scores, fine, you're still up a run.

If they weren't holding him on I don't see why Napoli wouldn't be playing back. He might be shading the line cause you have a lefty up, but I wouldn't think he'd be hugging it on anything.

Edit: I guess you want to keep the tying run out of scoring position. I dunno, I wouldn't have my 1B on the line in t hat situation. I know t hey have been playing Beltran to pull a lot though

 

[jimsonjunction]

So you were pulling for Wong, then right? I disagree on holding the runner b/c they are playing no doubles defense in that spot anyway. All you're talking about is increasing Napoli's range to a degree, but he's still hugging the line there. I don't know -- I know what conventional wisdom says, but I think there's a big hole on the right side any way you slice it in that situation.

That's a good point...he'd definitely still have to hug the line because Wong can score on a double. My thought was that with 2 outs, playing Napoli back gives them the best chance to record the last out and end the game. I guess I was wrong! haha

 

[cuseinseattle]

I would be curious to see what St. Louis fans think of the pair. I find them close to unlistenable.

One of my best friends is from St. Louis and him and his father are obsessed. He knows who there top 15 prospects are right now, that kind of guy. He claims there is no group of people on earth that hate McCarver and Buck more than Cardinal fans.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Disagree on this -- I don't think it's luck or a bad call to hold the runner there. I get what conventional wisdom says but Napoli is hugging that line regardless of where he is. Yeah, he has more range if he's four or five steps behind the runner, but there is a big hole on the right side no matter where he's playing.

And in some ways, doesn't the end justify the means in this case? You know Koji has quick feet and a good move (the part of this that is underplayed is how quick the move was and how accurate the throw was -- not insignificant parts of that play) and you know Wong is a young runner who's going to try and be aggressive there (whether or not he runs). And, in the end, it all added up to basically not having to throw Beltran anything he could hit. There's luck in terms of timing and maybe a slight slip (though I didn't really see a slip), but I fail to see where the Sox were sacrificing much defensively in terms of holding him on. Especially since holding him on ended up in the pickoff.

I feel like part of the reason is that Koji throws so many split finger fastballs and gets a lot of grounders they would rather keep the force play at second available if there is a ball hit to the left side deep in the hole where that is the best option. If a ball is hit to the right side and Napoli is able to dive for it and throw it to Koji covering that is about the only way him playing off helps. That seems unlikely to me.

 

[SUMBA]

Actually, this looks like it was actually a plan, even if Uehara didn't know about it. I'm guessing Napoli remembered the meeting and that's why he was holding Wong. (Wow that looks and sounds wrong).

Good article, thanks for posting. There is so much scouting that goes into these games I never thought that play was simple luck.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Even though I'm a Yankee fan, I don't have a burning hatred for the Sox, however... I find it impossible to watch these guys. For years now, they have insisted on wearing their uniforms so they look like jammies and the players themselves get grungier and grungier with each passing season. I remember when they tried to smear pine tar on every surface of their uniforms to look as dirty as possible. They'd have a 1/4" thick glop of pine tar caked on their helmets. Now with these meth addict beards. Who ever was pitching two games ago, I couldn't watch it. Every pitch they are zoomed in on a guy who looks like he's one more meth hit from being a legit walking zombie. No thanks.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Even though I'm a Yankee fan, I don't have a burning hatred for the Sox, however... I find it impossible to watch these guys. For years now, they have insisted on wearing their uniforms so they look like jammies and the players themselves get grungier and grungier with each passing season. I remember when they tried to smear pine tar on every surface of their uniforms to look as dirty as possible. They'd have a 1/4" thick glop of pine tar caked on their helmets. Now with these meth addict beards. Who ever was pitching two games ago, I couldn't watch it. Every pitch they are zoomed in on a guy who looks like he's one more meth hit from being a legit walking zombie. No thanks.

I dare you to try and find a 6' 220 pound meth addict who can hit a ball 460 feet. And the dirt dogs were awesome, led by the great Trot Nixon.

Those beards are probably some of the cleanest in the world thanks to all the free products they are getting from grateful companies.

 

[Tobias Funke]

Even though I'm a Yankee fan, I don't have a burning hatred for the Sox, however... I find it impossible to watch these guys. For years now, they have insisted on wearing their uniforms so they look like jammies and the players themselves get grungier and grungier with each passing season. I remember when they tried to smear pine tar on every surface of their uniforms to look as dirty as possible. They'd have a 1/4" thick glop of pine tar caked on their helmets. Now with these meth addict beards. Who ever was pitching two games ago, I couldn't watch it. Every pitch they are zoomed in on a guy who looks like he's one more meth hit from being a legit walking zombie. No thanks.

dirty beards in the series > clean shaven at home

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Even though I'm a Yankee fan, I don't have a burning hatred for the Sox, however... I find it impossible to watch these guys. For years now, they have insisted on wearing their uniforms so they look like jammies and the players themselves get grungier and grungier with each passing season. I remember when they tried to smear pine tar on every surface of their uniforms to look as dirty as possible. They'd have a 1/4" thick glop of pine tar caked on their helmets. Now with these meth addict beards. Who ever was pitching two games ago, I couldn't watch it. Every pitch they are zoomed in on a guy who looks like he's one more meth hit from being a legit walking zombie. No thanks.

Interesting perspective.
Having lived in NYC for 20+ years as a RedSox fan, i've got a different take. The Sox, over the past 10 years or so, have been the most fun and interesting teams. The genuinely seem to have fun, enjoy the game, and play with so much more 'life' than the sterile Cards... and corporate Yanks. The beard thing... well, they're having fun with it. Buccholz does not wear his scraggle well, but hey — it's for the team, so i applaud him for letting it grow.

No one was faking dirty uniforms. They played themselves into dirt, and maybe they didn't care as much as the Yanks about getting pine tar on their uniforms. Not sure how you can laud the Yanks' no facial hair policies. Personally, i'm not so much in favor of drone-ism. Some individuality and character makes nine innings much more interesting.

Besides that, you still have Alex Rodriguez, so all your arguments are moot, no matter the topic.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Interesting perspective.
Having lived in NYC for 20+ years as a RedSox fan, i've got a different take. The Sox, over the past 10 years or so, have been the most fun and interesting teams. The genuinely seem to have fun, enjoy the game, and play with so much more 'life' than the sterile Cards... and corporate Yanks. The beard thing... well, they're having fun with it. Buccholz does not wear his scraggle well, but hey — it's for the team, so i applaud him for letting it grow.

No one was faking dirty uniforms. They played themselves into dirt, and maybe they didn't care as much as the Yanks about getting pine tar on their uniforms. Not sure how you can laud the Yanks' no facial hair policies. Personally, i'm not so much in favor of drone-ism. Some individuality and character makes nine innings much more interesting.

Besides that, you still have Alex Rodriguez, so all your arguments are moot, no matter the topic.

One hundred Tee's for you sir!

 

[CorduroyG]

no facial hair rule is the dumbest rule in the history of professional sports!

 

[Tobias Funke]

Red Sox win