OT - Wilt, Syracuse and 44...

[Marsh01]

He did! Look at the stats! His per game dropped 8 points per game. His fellow players are quoted as saying he ran away from the ball because he couldn't shoot free throws. He was scared to fail so he couldnt be blamed! These aren't writers opinions. These are opinions of people who competed with and against him.

Shaq couldn't shoot free throws. He wasn't scared to have the ball. He still went at it! You don't hear any modern players say Shaq was scared to win!

Again, if wilt was so great, why was he traded twice??? In the early sixties the Lakers had a chance to trade for him and they had a team vote. The team vote was 9-2 don't trade. Of course he eventually ended up there but that shows you how players and other teams felt about him.

You do realize was was triple teamed 50% of the time right?

Here is why he was traded the first time:

In the following 1964–65 NBA season, the Warriors got off to a terrible start and ran into financial trouble. At the 1965 All-Star break Chamberlain was traded to the Philadelphia 76ers, the new name of the relocated Syracuse Nationals. In return the Warriors received Paul Neumann, Connie Dierking, Lee Shaffer (who opted to retire rather than report to the Warriors), and $150,000.

 

[weepeel]

First off, its pretty disrespectful to refer to Cherie as "buddy"

1. People have claimed to witness Wilt press 465 pounds. With arms that long I absolutely believe it. Keep in mind, outside of a competition, all bench press claims are just that, claims.

2. He couldn't dunk from the foul line standing still. The rule change prevented him from dunking with a running start

Longer arms making bench presses infinitely harder, someone who is over 7 feet with long arms like wilt would have difficulty benching over 300lb. This sounds like a childhood fairy tale

 

[oddo033]

Wow! He was scared of the ball but scored 50 points a game?

Regular season! He averaged 40 shots per game as well. He was a stars hoarder that's what he did. No one is denying that. The average center was 6'5" in 1962. Fab Melo would drop 30 a night.

 

[br801]

Regular season! He averaged 40 shots per game as well. He was a stars hoarder that's what he did. No one is denying that. The average center was 6'5" in 1962. Fab Melo would drop 30 a night.

Hey oddo033, do yourself a favor and seek out the many wonderful posts SWC75 makes on this board. You will learn a lot about the history of SU and professional sports, and you may begin to understand how to make your arguments in an appropriate context.

 

[phillydad]

You do realize was was triple teamed 50% of the time right?

Here is why he was traded the first time:

In the following 1964–65 NBA season, the Warriors got off to a terrible start and ran into financial trouble. At the 1965 All-Star break Chamberlain was traded to the Philadelphia 76ers, the new name of the relocated Syracuse Nationals. In return the Warriors received Paul Neumann, Connie Dierking, Lee Shaffer (who opted to retire rather than report to the Warriors), and $150,000.

The second trade was when he was sent to the lakers following the 67-68 season. Wilt always claimed to have been promised part ownership in the Sixers but when that didn't happen he demanded a trade. Ironically, one of the three players the Sixers received was Darrell Imhoff, who was the opposing center vs Wilt 50 years ago today.

 

[RoysRunts]

Saw Wilt play his 1st game against the Nats, Tom Meschery,Al Attles, Tom Gola on Warriors Nats won a close one at the horn, Swede guarded him and did a good job.My friend and I were watching a Documentary about Wilt in the middle 70's and it showed Wilt running down the Court dribbleing behind his back My Buddy jumped up from his Chair and started screaming and pointing at the TV set "TRICK PHOTOGRAPHY! TRICKPHOTOGRAPHY!) I was ROTFL!!

:rolling: Beside's Walt Bellamy/Bob Lanier/Russell Let's not forget Nate Thurmond No 6'5" Centers in that group Oh and the Guy with the bad leg from the Knicks Willis Reed

 

[realorange]

Longer arms making bench presses infinitely harder, someone who is over 7 feet with long arms like wilt would have difficulty benching over 300lb. This sounds like a childhood fairy tale

I'll repeat the story that John Havlichek tells. John was in his rookie year in the NBA. Wilt gets the ball near the basket. John decides he's going to keep Wilt from scoring by grabbing his arm with both hands. He said that if he hadn't let go, he thinks Wilt might have put him through the hoop with the ball.
Wilt was not just another 7 foot BB player. He was a great athlete and likely the most powerful man who ever played the game.

 

[oddo033]

Here is a list of HOF Centers that Wilt competed against in his career.


Bill Russell 6’9″, 220 1956-1969
Kareem Abdul Jabbar 7’2″,225 1969-1989
Nate Thurmond 6’11″ 240 1963-1974 (Wilts Teammate for a number of years)
Walt Bellamy 6’11″ 225 1961-1974
Bob Petit 6’9″ 230 1954-1965
Dave Cowens 6’9″ 230 1970-1983
Bob Lanier 6’11 265 1970-1984
Spencer Haywood 6’9″ 230 1969-1983
Jerry Lucas 6’8″ 245 (C-F) 1962-1974
Elvin Hayes 6’9′ 240 (C-F) 1968-1984
Wes Unseld 6’7″ 245 1968-1981
Willis Reed 6’9″ 240 1964-1974



Here are Wilts career Stats. He had the most dominating 6 year period in the history of the game. With that being said He never averaged 30 PPG after '66. As the size of the players starting catching up with him, his points went down.

Notice that out of these HOF Centers only Russell, Bellamy, Petit, Lucas, and Reed (first 2 years. Not yet in his prime) were around for his best seasons. Only Bellamy was over 6'9". (Thurmond was his teammate during this time.)

Wilt was in great physical condition and played nearly every minute. He also took a ton of shots. in his best season in '62 he shot 50% from the field. His career % didn't go up till the end of his career when he severely limited the amount of shots he was taking.

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1959-60 23 PHW NBA 72 46.4 14.8 32.1 .461 8.0 13.8 .582 27.0 2.3 2.1 37.6
1960-61 24 PHW NBA 79 47.8 15.8 31.1 .509 6.7 13.3 .504 27.2 1.9 1.6 38.4
1961-62 25 PHW NBA 80 48.5 20.0 39.5 .506 10.4 17.0 .613 25.7 2.4 1.5 50.4
1962-63 26 SFW NBA 80 47.6 18.3 34.6 .528 8.3 13.9 .593 24.3 3.4 1.7 44.8
1963-64 27 SFW NBA 80 46.1 15.1 28.7 .524 6.8 12.7 .531 22.3 5.0 2.3 36.9
1964-65 28 TOT NBA 73 45.2 14.6 28.5 .510 5.6 12.1 .464 22.9 3.4 2.0 34.7
1964-65 28 SFW NBA 38 45.9 16.7 33.6 .499 5.5 13.2 .416 23.5 3.1 2.0 38.9
1964-65 28 PHI NBA 35 44.5 12.2 23.1 .528 5.7 10.9 .526 22.3 3.8 2.0 30.1
1965-66 29 PHI NBA 79 47.3 13.6 25.2 .540 6.3 12.4 .513 24.6 5.2 2.2 33.5
1966-67 30 PHI NBA 81 45.5 9.7 14.2 .683 4.8 10.8 .441 24.2 7.8 1.8 24.1
1967-68 31 PHI NBA 82 46.8 10.0 16.8 .595 4.3 11.4 .380 23.8 8.6 2.0 24.3
1968-69 32 LAL NBA 81 45.3 7.9 13.6 .583 4.7 10.6 .446 21.1 4.5 1.8 20.5
1969-70 33 LAL NBA 12 42.1 10.8 18.9 .568 5.8 13.1 .446 18.4 4.1 2.6 27.3
1970-71 34 LAL NBA 82 44.3 8.1 15.0 .545 4.4 8.2 .538 18.2 4.3 2.1 20.7
1971-72 35 LAL NBA 82 42.3 6.0 9.3 .649 2.7 6.4 .422 19.2 4.0 2.4 14.8
1972-73 36 LAL NBA 82 43.2 5.2 7.1 .727 2.8 5.5 .510 18.6 4.5 2.3 13.2
Career NBA 1045 45.8 12.1 22.5 .540 5.8 11.4 .511 22.9 4.4 2.0 30.1

 

[oddo033]

Saw Wilt play his 1st game against the Nats, Tom Meschery,Al Attles, Tom Gola on Warriors Nats won a close one at the horn, Swede guarded him and did a good job.My friend and I were watching a Documentary about Wilt in the middle 70's and it showed Wilt running down the Court dribbleing behind his back My Buddy jumped up from his Chair and started screaming and pointing at the TV set "TRICK PHOTOGRAPHY! TRICKPHOTOGRAPHY!) I was ROTFL!!

:rolling: Beside's Walt Bellamy/Bob Lanier/Russell Let's not forget Nate Thurmond No 6'5" Centers in that group Oh and the Guy with the bad leg from the Knicks Willis Reed

Lanier came in at the end of his career. Reed came in in '64. Thurmond came in in '63 as his teammate. So he had Russell and Bellamy in '62. One was 6'9" the over 6'11".

 

['72 Orange]

As a NYC basketball fan in the early to mid 60's, the Knicks were not much to root for. It seemed like all of my friends rooted for the Celtics or 76ers. Today that would be heresy for anyone from NYC , but back then they were the two dominant teams of their time and you were either a Wilt or Russell guy. Since I had to fall into one camp or the other I picked Russ & the Celtics since they always seemed to get the better of Wilt & Co. when it mattered. Once the Knicks started to get their act together at the end of the decade, they became my one and only team.

As others have said, Wilt was a freakish athlete that would dominate the current basketball centers. The amazing stat in his 100 point game was that he shot 28 for 32 from the free throw line when he was normally 60% from the charity stripe!

 

[br801]

Here is a list of HOF Centers that Wilt competed against in his career.


Bill Russell 6’9″, 220 1956-1969
Kareem Abdul Jabbar 7’2″,225 1969-1989
Nate Thurmond 6’11″ 240 1963-1974 (Wilts Teammate for a number of years)
Walt Bellamy 6’11″ 225 1961-1974
Bob Petit 6’9″ 230 1954-1965
Dave Cowens 6’9″ 230 1970-1983
Bob Lanier 6’11 265 1970-1984
Spencer Haywood 6’9″ 230 1969-1983
Jerry Lucas 6’8″ 245 (C-F) 1962-1974
Elvin Hayes 6’9′ 240 (C-F) 1968-1984
Wes Unseld 6’7″ 245 1968-1981
Willis Reed 6’9″ 240 1964-1974



Here are Wilts career Stats. He had the most dominating 6 year period in the history of the game. With that being said He never averaged 30 PPG after '66. As the size of the players starting catching up with him, his points went down.

Notice that out of these HOF Centers only Russell, Bellamy, Petit, Lucas, and Reed (first 2 years. Not yet in his prime) were around for his best seasons. Only Bellamy was over 6'9". (Thurmond was his teammate during this time.)

Wilt was in great physical condition and played nearly every minute. He also took a ton of shots. in his best season in '62 he shot 50% from the field. His career % didn't go up till the end of his career when he severely limited the amount of shots he was taking.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

For the record, he stopped scoring as much because he was playing on more offensively talented teams and made a conscious effort to shoot less. His decreased scoring had nothing to do with other players "catching up with him."

The long list of HoF big men he competed against is quite interesting. Remember, there were less than half the number of teams then, so Wilt was facing one of these guys most nights. You should look closely at some of the numbers these guys put up to get a sense of the quality of Wilt's competition.

 

[Knicks411]

Missed this thread before. Fun thread.

Was reading a stat about Wilt today, I knew he played crazy minutes; but in the 1962 season he sat out 8 minutes ALL YEAR.

The game in 1962 was a lot different than it is now. A lot mroe points, shots, rebounds, being taken. But I'm pretty sure you put 1962 Wilt in today's NBA and he's dropping 35 a night or so.

 

[Cheriehoop]

http://www.nba.com/history/chamberlain_50.html

http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Z4en6i9MM

Note that Chamberlain, Russell, Auerbach, the players teammates etc displayed mutual respect and offered intelligent analysis.

 

[LennX6]

Fail young fella'... Wilt was a cross between Anthony Davis and Shaq. No, the competition was not as good but look how thoroughly Wilt dominated.

Not only that, he changed basketball. It was a different game after he left than when he got there. The icons changed the game, Wilt, Russell, Gretzky, Orr, Ruth, Mantle, Brown, Clay all took their sport up one level.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Shaq talks a little bit about Wilt in his new book. When he got to LA he almost bought Wilt's house. He really wanted to but it was old and needed a lot of repairs at that point. It was no secret that he had a lot of admiration for Wilt.

I was born in 1959 so you could say that I grew up with Wilt. To me he was the most larger than life figure there was. I didn't get to see him in his college or early pro days but I am surprised that no one has talked much about his time at Kansas or with the Globetrotters. I'm not sure what the real story is of him leaving Kansas but could you imagine someone like Dwight Howard playing three years of college and one for the Trotters before playing in the NBA. That kind of stuff just doesn't happen.

As others have mentioned, the NBA was a totally different game back then, as was college. The stats are so much different. A lot more points, a lot more rebounds. The only thing not different is that Wilt would be a star in any generation. He was the most amazing athlete there was. Track star, volleyball, strength, speed, he had it all.

Speaking of having it all, could you imagine Wilt with modern medicine. He could be up to 100,000 women by now.

 

[weepeel]

I'll repeat the story that John Havlichek tells. John was in his rookie year in the NBA. Wilt gets the ball near the basket. John decides he's going to keep Wilt from scoring by grabbing his arm with both hands. He said that if he hadn't let go, he thinks Wilt might have put him through the hoop with the ball.
Wilt was not just another 7 foot BB player. He was a great athlete and likely the most powerful man who ever played the game.

Wilt Chamberlain was 250 lbs when he entered the NBA eventually was around 275 lbs, at 7'1' that is really not a lot of weight Shaq played at 325 lbs..that is a 50-75 lbs difference. Shaq is built like a baby gorilla, Chamberlain was a long and lanky type guy...no way at all that he was the most powerful or even close to powerful player of all time...that title belongs to Shaq. Just like Wilt Chamberlain claims to have been with over 20,000 woman in his life.

Here is Shaq standing next to the big show who is 7'2'' 450 lbs...

if you think wilt is more powerful than shaq you might believe in the tooth fairy, santa clause, and the world being flat.

 

[realorange]

Wilt Chamberlain was 250 lbs when he entered the NBA eventually was around 275 lbs, at 7'1' that is really not a lot of weight Shaq played at 325 lbs..that is a 50-75 lbs difference. Shaq is built like a baby gorilla, Chamberlain was a long and lanky type guy...no way at all that he was the most powerful or even close to powerful player of all time...that title belongs to Shaq. Just like Wilt Chamberlain claims to have been with over 20,000 woman in his life.

Here is Shaq standing next to the big show who is 7'2'' 450 lbs...

if you think wilt is more powerful than shaq you might believe in the tooth fairy, santa clause, and the world being flat.

And you might not have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[weepeel]

And you might not have a clue what you are talking about.

what a convincing argument...

 

[tipphill]

Saw Wilt play his 1st game against the Nats, Tom Meschery,Al Attles, Tom Gola on Warriors Nats won a close one at the horn, Swede guarded him and did a good job.My friend and I were watching a Documentary about Wilt in the middle 70's and it showed Wilt running down the Court dribbleing behind his back My Buddy jumped up from his Chair and started screaming and pointing at the TV set "TRICK PHOTOGRAPHY! TRICKPHOTOGRAPHY!) I was ROTFL!!

:rolling: Beside's Walt Bellamy/Bob Lanier/Russell Let's not forget Nate Thurmond No 6'5" Centers in that group Oh and the Guy with the bad leg from the Knicks Willis Reed

were you sitting on the stage

 

[NRF527]

chaimberlain great player, russell great TEAM player and winner.
my claim to nba fame--- i was at the 1961 allstar game at the war memorial---wow

Me too! The Big O was MVP. Back in those days, the NBA would have double headers. I saw Wilt vs Russell preceding the Nats vs St Louis Hawks. Unbelievable!

 

[br801]

Me too! The Big O was MVP. Back in those days, the NBA would have double headers. I saw Wilt vs Russell preceding the Nats vs St Louis Hawks. Unbelievable!

Very cool. Any recollections of what you experienced would be welcome. My first memories of the NBA are from the late 1960s, so I only saw these guys at the end of their careers.