OT - Women's Soccer

[Noexcuse]

I disagree... and the women's game lends itself to being more crowded than the men's game much of the time. The men's game has better spacing, albeit better pressure on the wings. A funny thing - there is not as much skill on the ball difference between the genders in football than there is in other sports. Clearly speed and ahtleticism are a different matter but skill on the ball is a whole seperate matter as you don't need to be a guy to put a nice touch on the ball from 35 yards out. I will give you pirlo as he does so more often than most but even in clearly one sided matches you don't see many players show off that skill consistantly. The spanish hardly ever as they play the short game. Shot wise - G. D Los Santos of Mexico has a great touch but is not a great crosser. Part of it is its not typically the smart pass.. being curling a ball to the far post typically results in an easier ball for the keeper as its a hard play to make. Its also not a critically important skill.. just one thing rapinoe is extremely good at.

You might be on to something here. I was going to disagree with Bort initially, but this makes the most sense to me based on the considerable European amount of soccer I watch.

 

[PoppyHart]

I don't think you can truly compare men and women, unless they are playing on completely level terms, which they don't.

B/c of the differences, the best you truly say is that Rapinoe is the best, "for a women." It's all relative.

 

[pearl31]

I don't think you can truly compare men and women, unless they are playing on completely level terms, which they don't.

B/c of the differences, the best you truly say is that Rapinoe is the best, "for a women." It's all relative.

yep, essentially what I was trying to say

 

[Orangezoo]

this is weird for me, because I'm usually the one defending the women's game to my friends. anyway, we'll just have to disagree on this one.
one closing point, though: look at the arc/trajectory of her crosses compared to the way good crosses into the box in the men's game. pace, a product of leg strength, is key.

Nothing wrong with a little disagreement / debate . I clearly get your angle as well.. some of what you are saying is timing as well. Understanding the person making the run and the pace to put on the ball is just as important as the actual characteristic. The one dynamic I will put out there is that the reaction time of keepers in the women's game is not the same. Therefore the frequency with which the keeper puts a finger on the ball if she was going against a male goalkeeper would go up. With that said - the accuracy and consistancy is still very impressive and much higher than in the men's game. I watch too much football ( the wife got a diamond watch.. I got the directv sports package with all the football/soccer channels) and while you will see players who can match the precision, they don't have the spin ( bundesliga/EPL/Turkish leagues), and then you will see the spin but not as much the precision (Italian/Mexican/Portugese/). With the rest a mixed bag of short passing and very good one one play. The other thing thats interesting is that its very MLS/American game- like to use the long cross more than the through pass or the chip.. much of the time with little success. Of course we can only sit here debating on a message board.. only a real "Rapinoe playing for Chelsea" type of moment would give us our concrete answer .

 

[jncuse]

Screwjob

 

[Orangezoo]

Screwjob

??

 

[CusefanATL]

Was it a gift of a PK?

2 caveats: I don't watch much soccer and my connection was HORRIBLE with no sound.

But the Canadian chick def moved really early on the free kick... Isnt that the reason for the PK?

 

[ImperialOrange]

With all due respect...
judging by your Chelsea avatar you must watch a fair amount of soccer. You do realize that any top-level men's player can make crosses, with either foot, on a routine basis, right? Like, it's not even something they have to think about.
For the women's game, yeah, Rampino is probably the best at delivering crosses. For the women's game.

As a Liverpool supporter, we've been sorely lacking someone that can consistantly put good crosses in for a few seasons now and I watch enough other games to question the how many can "routinely" do it.

It is at least an interesting comparo but I'm not sure how crosses with that much hang time would equate in the mens game. The Canadian GK in that clip gets caught being indecisive (first couple of steps are backwards). A cross like that in a top mens league, 6 yards out, would get punched clear by the keeper 9 times out of 10.

 

[Bortukal]

I think people are missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying by any means that Rapinoe would somehow be a star player, or even a successful one at the men's professional level. All I'm saying, and Orangezoo has done a better job of explaining than I have, is that her touch on the ball -- that is, her ability to bend the ball from distance to the spot where a teammate has the highest percentage of finishing the ball -- is world class regardless of gender. Take that cross in the WC against Brazil: 4 defenders in front of the goal, plus a keeper coming off the line with an outstretched hand and only 1 attacking forward. She had to deliver the ball from about 35 yards on the wing to an area smaller than the MLB strike zone for Wambach to have a play on the ball. She nailed it. I submit that most guys in the exact same position would see their cross find the head of the defender.

I get what you all are saying about gender being a factor and that she wouldn't see success if she played in, say, the EPL. But that's like saying that David Beckham and Landon Donovan are talented, but only because they play in an inferior league amongst players with lesser ability. Obviously that's not the case at all.

Anyway, maybe someday some apparel company will sponsor a skills competition like they have for football and let some of the girls participate. Until then, it's a fun little discussion.

 

[Noexcuse]

Take that cross in the WC against Brazil: 4 defenders in front of the goal, plus a keeper coming off the line with an outstretched hand and only 1 attacking forward. She had to deliver the ball from about 35 yards on the wing to an area smaller than the MLB strike zone for Wambach to have a play on the ball. She nailed it. I submit that most guys in the exact same position would see their cross find the head of the defender.

The fact that she can place the ball into an area that small is definitely commendable. I think the counter argument would be that there are men who can do that as well but the defenders and goalies they play against are better at intercepting the ball before the striker can reach it.

 

[Millhouse]

I think people are missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying by any means that Rapinoe would somehow be a star player, or even a successful one at the men's professional level. All I'm saying, and Orangezoo has done a better job of explaining than I have, is that her touch on the ball -- that is, her ability to bend the ball from distance to the spot where a teammate has the highest percentage of finishing the ball -- is world class regardless of gender. Take that cross in the WC against Brazil: 4 defenders in front of the goal, plus a keeper coming off the line with an outstretched hand and only 1 attacking forward. She had to deliver the ball from about 35 yards on the wing to an area smaller than the MLB strike zone for Wambach to have a play on the ball. She nailed it. I submit that most guys in the exact same position would see their cross find the head of the defender.

I get what you all are saying about gender being a factor and that she wouldn't see success if she played in, say, the EPL. But that's like saying that David Beckham and Landon Donovan are talented, but only because they play in an inferior league amongst players with lesser ability. Obviously that's not the case at all.

Anyway, maybe someday some apparel company will sponsor a skills competition like they have for football and let some of the girls participate. Until then, it's a fun little discussion.

i doubt there are many men with better touch and accuracy, it's just that it's a moot point in men's soccer where the goalies are so much better and you have to make harder crosses

 

[CusefanATL]

Was it a gift of a PK?

2 caveats: I don't watch much soccer and my connection was HORRIBLE with no sound.

But the Canadian chick def moved really early on the free kick... Isnt that the reason for the PK?

can somebody answer my question?

 

[Bortukal]

Was it a gift of a PK?

2 caveats: I don't watch much soccer and my connection was HORRIBLE with no sound.

But the Canadian chick def moved really early on the free kick... Isnt that the reason for the PK?

The PK was called because of a hand ball. Early movement on a free kick only results in the retaking of the kick.

Was it a handball? Mmmmm. I don't know. I think that in the referee's mind, she saw the defender's arm stretch out from her body. In that case, they'll call a hand ball every time. On replay, the defender had her arms close in, but turned into the kick. Tough call. I think to say that it was a blatant Montreal Screw Job is unfair.

 

[CusefanATL]

thank you!

 

[upperdeck]

i thought it was a great game.. not so sure i understand the concept of it being a great cross. more like she threw it up someplace around the middle, hoped an american would hit it home, and the goalie made about her 10th mistake of the game and it cost her big time.

 

[Bortukal]

i thought it was a great game.. not so sure i understand the concept of it being a great cross. more like she threw it up someplace around the middle, hoped an american would hit it home, and the goalie made about her 10th mistake of the game and it cost her big time.

Wasn't referring to the cross that Morgan headed in. That was actually passed by O'Reilly, I think, and yeah, it really was kind of a Hail Mary pass.

 

[Orangezoo]

i doubt there are many men with better touch and accuracy, it's just that it's a moot point in men's soccer where the goalies are so much better and you have to make harder crosses

Au contraire- the point is about touch and accuracy for the most part - the key is not the force but instead the touch, the accuracy relative to the timing of the run and the ability to also use that same touch from various points on the field including outside the 18, inside the 18 and the deep ball. The real counter argument is about the athletic ability of the keepers and defenders. You can counter that back with she does what is necessary and does so consistantly. In the men's game, even when you see a team like Chelsea faceoff against Cardiff City for instance - you rarely see someone put a cross in with the same consistancy. Beckham's legacy is about his ability to consistantly put a touch on the ball that was always a risk to score from a tough angle or hit an open runner in a small space. The difficulty in doing this is incredible which is why you rarely see it. In the context of skills and the ability to place the ball correctly and in a place very few wings /backs are able to do she deserves the credit. In the context that if you put her in the EPL and expect that performance right away would be the same as to put beckham in the women's world cup. The skills can be adapted to the small idiosyncracies of the game. I completely understand there is a counterargument and its a fun little debate as Bort said. But its not as easy to just chalk it up us an useless conversation because of gender.