OU/OSU Jumping Ship?

[kyleslamb]

I understand your argumnets from a TV perspective, but the PAC 12 is not as worried about TV as many think. For available schools, I primarily used your list from above. I agree Mizzou is out for the west.

I respectfully disagree with you regarding academics. Research brings in FAR MORE $$$$ than athletics, even at Texas and Ohio State. Tech's reputation preceeds them. My guess is that if the PAC 12 is only able to secure OU and OSU, then they stop at 14 and wait for Texas or for another school to prove themselves worthy. Tech only comes along as a passenger on the Texas train, much like OSU riding the OU train. The PAC 12 may be more likely to overlook the religious issues with BYU, Baylor, SMU and TCU before they overlook Tech's academic issues.

Remember, TTech would not get into the B1G 10, ACC, Big East based on academic issues. The PAC 12 is on par with these conferences. Only the SEC would accept their academics and they are not going to the SEC. They hold onto Texas coattails or they get nothing. I think Baylor has already realized this, the exception being that the Big East may take Baylor as a filler to round out 12, 14, or 16.

By the way, should OU and OSU leave, and perhaps another team or two, and the Big 12 dissolve, then Texas may wait a year or two as an indy and go where they like without little brother. ESPN had an article that indicated that Texas does not believe they can make a go of it with 7 teams in the Big 12.

"Sources told Schad on Wednesday that Texas is willing to make financial concessions in order to keep the Big 12 together, but if Oklahoma and Oklahoma State join Texas A&M in leaving the conference, Texas does not consider a Big 12 with seven teams remaining to be viable."

From: http://espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/story...rs-not-decision-pac-12-move-seeking-stability

The above leads me to think that Texas does not want to expend its energy to save the conference even though they could backfill with suitable teams and perhaps a couple CUSA teams to get to 12, assuming OU and OSU are gone.

Research brings more than athletics, but why does that matter to Pac-12 schools? It only matters to the Big Ten because they've set up a consortium of resources to where highly-concentrated research universities can help one another improve their own research by sharing access to libraries, equipment and collaborate on projects. The Pac-12 does not have such a consortium, so research dollars of other universities don't really help one another much. Again, I agree with you the Pac-12 cares about academic reputation, but at the end of the day, the Big Ten is currently the only conference that has an avenue for academics of other schools to have an influence on each other. Research otherwise wouldn't impact expansion.

Let's get down to brass tacks: realignment is being brought about by finances, not academics, geography or athletics. Do you agree with that? So at the end of the day, the Pac-12's decision as to which teams they take will be one of the most financial sense, not academic reputation. The Big Ten does have an academic motivation because of the CIC interactions, and the ability for other institutions to indirectly improve research funding through resource collaboration, but ultimately the Big Ten is expanding because of their desire to grow inventory on their TV network and expand the geography of interested subscribers. The Pac-12 is no different and Larry Scott recently said as much when he admitted they're looking at other combinations of schools (even if Texas isn't included) that will be "most profitable."

The final decisions will be made based on money and nothing else. Academics might be a tie-breaker or a consideration between schools with similar credentials, but generally speaking, it's not going to keep a school like Texas Tech out of the running. This is an arms race to some degree. The Pac-12 will want to keep up with their peers, and Texas Tech will give them a better chance to do so than Iowa State, Baylor or even schools like Boise State.

 

[Alsacs]

Pac-12 if its add Oklahoma and Okie St to get to 14 does not expand anymore without Texas as part of the deal. UNLESS Missouri would go west then Kansas would probably be the 16th team. Tech is not getting into the Pac-16 without Texas coming along. Okie State wouldn't get into the Pac-12 without riding Oklahoma's coattails. Texas Tech is not a valuable asset to the conference alone they have only made 5 of the last 20 NCAA basketball tournaments and have never been to a BCS bowl. Lubbock is over 200+ miles from Houston, Austin, Dallas and while its in Texas its a distant 3rd at best popular school in Texas behind Texas and Texas A&M. Texas Tech is kinda the East Carolina of Texas but got into the Big 12 in 1994 because of political pressure from the Tx Speaker of the House (Texas Tech alum) and the fact he got Texas A&M's basketball arena funded through political purse strings which they won't have in the Pac-12 unless Texas went with them. I believe that Texas will weigh all of its options and may look to the ACC as a possible destination which would be great for Syracuse. If the ACC added Texas, Texas Tech, Syracuse, and UConn(possibly Pitt as well if WVU went to the SEC) then we would be in a stable conference once and for all.
However the Pac-12 isn't going to go 16 just to get to 16 it wants premiere value and Oklahoma justifies inclusion along with Okie St, but Texas Tech and Kansas wouldn't be enough to justify inclusion in fact the Pac-16 would basically be sending Texas to either the B1G, SEC, or ACC and I highly doubt they would want to do that.

 

[Brunco]

Is there any chance that Notre Dame & Texas would create their own conference? Notre Dame can cherrypick 3-4 schools from the Big East/ACC, Texas picks 3-4 from the Big 12 and they keep their TV deals on top of whatever the conference gets.

 

[PeteCalvin]

I think we agree on a lot of the overall points. However, the Pac-12 needs value in expansion right now they signed a 15yr-3BILLION dollar TV contract and if they decided to expand with Oklahoma and Okie Light to get to 14 they would add value as OU is a top 10 football power. Also Colorado's president said
"One of the reasons - and there are a lot of reasons - we got in the Pac-12 is to play regularly on the West Coast," Colorado president Bruce Benson"When I hear things like East-West divisions, we're going back to the Big 12 again. I sure don't want to get shorted out of the West Coast." Bringing in Oklahoma and Okie Light doesn't kill Colorado playing games on the West regularly. I have a feeling the Pac-12 adds 2 schools stops at 14. The SEC adds a 14th team either Va Tech or WVU. The ACC adds 2 teams to get to 14 and uses the expansion to renegotiate its TV contract with ESPN. Texas recreates a SWC like conference with the Big 12 leftovers. B1G does not make any moves until Notre Dame is ready to join the conference. I just hope SU gets out of the BE before it becomes CUSA.

I don't see either of those happening. Why would the other powerhouse schools in the SEC want VaTech? I think the probability is higher that the SEC takes Clemson, which is an easy grab, gives an in-state rival to South Carolina, and doesn't upset the power balance in the conference. I doubt the ACC puts up much of a fight with Clemson. VaTech on the other hand? That's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Right now Va Tech IS ACC football. If the ACC loses them, then their whole expansion grab was for naught. That could get VERY ugly politically.

Besides, would WVU or VaTech really add that many more TV sets? The SEC doesn't need TV sets. They already have them. They are the premier college football conference. WVU only makes sense when you take into account the hillbilly factor. Otherwise, eh. Do you think Alabama gives a crap about West Virginia? I just don't see VaTech or WVU going to the SEC UNLESS they go to 16 AND either Fla St. or Miami is involved. None of those four schools is a logical fit for the SEC. Clemson, on the other hand, makes perfect sense. Clemson fans and Gamecock fans already hate each other.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't see either of those happening. Why would the other powerhouse schools in the SEC want VaTech? I think the probability is higher that the SEC takes Clemson, which is an easy grab, gives an in-state rival to South Carolina, and doesn't upset the power balance in the conference. I doubt the ACC puts up much of a fight with Clemson. VaTech on the other hand? That's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Right now Va Tech IS ACC football. If the ACC loses them, then their whole expansion grab was for naught. That could get VERY ugly politically.

Besides, would WVU or VaTech really add that many more TV sets? The SEC doesn't need TV sets. They already have them. They are the premier college football conference. WVU only makes sense when you take into account the hillbilly factor. Otherwise, eh. Do you think Alabama gives a crap about West Virginia? I just don't see VaTech or WVU going to the SEC UNLESS they go to 16 AND either Fla St. or Miami is involved. None of those four schools is a logical fit for the SEC. Clemson, on the other hand, makes perfect sense. Clemson fans and Gamecock fans already hate each other.

South Carolina, Florida, Kentucky, and Georgia have a gentleman's agreement not to add Clemson,Florida St, Louisville or Georgia Tech because of the recruiting advantage they have over their ACC/BE rivals in playing in the SEC. If the SEC could pick any team they would want Florida State as they are the biggest name in the ACC and would add another football power, but the Eastern schools have unified and that is why West Virginia is brought up as the leader in the clubhouse, but Virginia Tech is a bigger fish and would open Virginia and the metro Washington D.C. into the SEC's footprint. West Virginia adds a solid team that doesn't tip the balance of the eastern division and gives the SEC a school which would jump in a heartbeat and they neighbor Kentucky and would add a rival team for them and not rock the boat of Florida, Georgia, Tennessee.

 

[PeteCalvin]

South Carolina, Florida, Kentucky, and Georgia have a gentleman's agreement not to add Clemson,Florida St, Louisville or Georgia Tech because of the recruiting advantage they have over their ACC/BE rivals in playing in the SEC. If the SEC could pick any team they would want Florida State as they are the biggest name in the ACC and would add another football power, but the Eastern schools have unified and that is why West Virginia is brought up as the leader in the clubhouse, but Virginia Tech is a bigger fish and would open Virginia and the metro Washington D.C. into the SEC's footprint. West Virginia adds a solid team that doesn't tip the balance of the eastern division and gives the SEC a school which would jump in a heartbeat and they neighbor Kentucky and would add a rival team for them and not rock the boat of Florida, Georgia, Tennessee.

I see your points on WVU and VaTech, but I think gentleman's agreements are a thing of the past in this free for all. Fla St. would make the most sense, but would the U of allow it? I heard they were pretty determined not to have the Seminoles in the conference under any circumstances.

I hate the ACC and would cringe to see Syracuse a part of it. Call me a traditionalist, but I like BE Basketball, MSG, etc. I can't get excited for a tournament in Greensboro, Charlotte, Atlanta or DC. My hope is that the BE can be the poacher this time. But if the Texas/ACC talk is legit, bye bye BE as we know it.

 

[HtownOrange]

To the poster re: VPI not going to the SEC, the SEC is very interested in VIrginia as a market. VPI is also a perennial contender in name only. Every year we hear how great VPI is but every year they falter and show us tey are nothing. They generally play one of the easiest schedules in all of FBS football, take a look at their schedules over the last 30 years, Shiano learned his scheduling techniques from Beamer. The FBS rule of allowing only one FCS opponent to count for Bowl eligibility was put in place because of VPI, Rutgers and others intentionally scheduling weak teams for good records. The SEC knows this and VPI would soon be relegated to a bottom half team while still getting the Virginia market. WVU would be an upper half team and the SEC would only get a small market.

To the poster re: Gentleman's agreement. The agreement, as I understand it, is that they will only act if the team in the state with the potential new SEC team wants to block that school. Thus, if UF has no objections to FSU joining the SEC, there would be no action to block it, but if UF did not want FSU, they would all vote against it. In 1991, FSU had an invite and Florida had no problem with it, besides,Florida already plays FSU annually and recruits against them so I'm not sure UF would raise any objection. I can definitely see UK stopping Louisville, too much competition in basketball and Louisville is hurting UK in football. Also, of note, the have been denials that this gentleman's agreement even exists, so this may all be an exercise in futility.