Our eerie similarity to the University of Colorado Boulder

[orangeinjersey]

Was thinking about our national perception (or lack there of), and how we were once a very good program down on the doldrums, and how we could objectively see our program without our orange colored glasses on. So as I am thinking of comparable schools/programs, one of the first to pop in my head is the University of Colorado - Boulder Buffalos

SU est 1870
CU est 1876

SU enrollment - 21267
CU enrollment - 31702

SU Nat Titles - 1 (1959)
CU Nat Titles - 1 (1990)

SU Heisman - 1 (1961)
CU Heisman - 1 (1994)

SU All-Americans - 41
CU All-Americans - 30

SU Conf Titles - 5
CU Conf Titles - 26

SU Bowl Record - 15-9-1
CU Bowl Record - 12-16

SU All time record - 705-503
CU All time record - 675-463-35

Both schools had late 80's success sustained through the late 90's, and have fizzled since the early 00's since. Since 2000,

SU - 76-99
CU - 68-99

My conclusion: My perception of Colorado from a 33 yr old college football fan from the opposite coast is that CU stinks. They used to be good in the Kordell Stewart Rashaam Salam days, but not since.

This is basically how i think the rest of the country sees SU. "Yeah they were good in the MCNabb and Harrison days, but have stunk ever since.".

Anyone else agree??

 

[Millhouse]

Was thinking about our national perception (or lack there of), and how we were once a very good program down on the doldrums, and how we could objectively see our program without our orange colored glasses on. So as I am thinking of comparable schools/programs, one of the first to pop in my head is the University of Colorado - Boulder Buffalos

SU est 1870
CU est 1876

SU enrollment - 21267
CU enrollment - 31702

SU Nat Titles - 1 (1959)
CU Nat Titles - 1 (1990)

SU Heisman - 1 (1961)
CU Heisman - 1 (1994)

SU All-Americans - 12
CU All-Americans - 30

SU Conf Titles - 5
CU Conf Titles - 26

SU Bowl Record - 15-9-1
CU Bowl Record - 12-16

SU All time record - 705-503
CU All time record - 675-463-35

Both schools had late 80's success sustained through the late 90's, and have fizzled since the early 00's since. Since 2000,

SU - 76-99
CU - 68-99

My conclusion: My perception of Colorado from a 33 yr old college football fan from the opposite coast is that CU stinks. They used to be good in the Kordell Stewart Rashaam Salam days, but not since.

This is basically how i think the rest of the country sees SU. "Yeah they were good in the MCNabb and Harrison days, but have stunk ever since.".

Anyone else agree??

good call. the conference titles is a little misleading because they were in the big 8 for a million years when we were still indy

 

[Full_Rebar]

That's a damn good comparison.

 

[wfschrec]

Nope ... they haven't finished above .500 since 2005 and have only won 1 bowl game in the last decade which was a screamer over UTEP ... we have beat some ranked programs and finished above .500 on more than 1 occasion with bowl wins in 3 of the last 4 seasons. From a history perspective yes but not from a present day perspective IMHO.

 

[Millhouse]

colorado is probably a good argument for the facilities is everything crowd too

 

[orangeinjersey]

Nope ... they haven't finished above .500 since 2005 and have only won 1 bowl game in the last decade which was a screamer over UTEP ... we have beat some ranked programs and finished above .500 on more than 1 occasion with bowl wins in 3 of the last 4 seasons. From a history perspective yes but not from a present day perspective IMHO.

I'm strictly speaking in a "national perspective" of the overall big picture. Yes we have been slightly better than them since 2005, but they were slighlty better than us in the early 00's. It washes out. In the grand scheme, these are two very similar programs and trajectories

 

[Toga]

Have actually considered this comparison before. Surprised somewhat of their recent lack of success. Pac 10 - nice location. Guess a lot was based on McCartney who I vaguely recall recruited some dubious characters.

 

[wfschrec]

I'm strictly speaking in a "national perspective" of the overall big picture. Yes we have been slightly better than them since 2005, but they were slighlty better than us in the early 00's. It washes out. In the grand scheme, these are two very similar programs and trajectories

I think moving out of the Big-12 and into the PAC-12 will be the death of them. I guess ultimately I see CU and SU trending on different trajectories moving forward. From a national perspective we are still held in slightly higher regard today and unfair as it may seem we do have our hoops success to thank for that. I have friends and colleagues all across the USA who are more familiar and know more of SU than CU .. I have never seen a Buffs fan in my travels without going to Colorado however I have come across Cuse fans in many parts of the country ... because of hoops we do have a cult following and people do notice our football program because of it. I think that taints my view of national perspective of both but that is based strictly off of what I see.

 

[orangeinjersey]

I think moving out of the Big-12 and into the PAC-12 will be the death of them. I guess ultimately I see CU and SU trending on different trajectories moving forward. From a national perspective we are still held in slightly higher regard today and unfair as it may seem we do have our hoops success to thank for that. I have friends and colleagues all across the USA who are more familiar and know more of SU than CU .. I have never seen a Buffs fan in my travels without going to Colorado however I have come across Cuse fans in many parts of the country ... because of hoops we do have a cult following and people do notice our football program because of it. I think that taints my view of national perspective of both but that is based strictly off of what I see.

You may be right about the Basketball success rubbing off slightly on our FB program. But how many of those SU shirts are worn becuase of the basketball team? There is some validity here to what you are saying.

 

[Whitey23]

CU regents approve $142M in athletic facilities upgrades

 

[texascpa]

Man, I hate this comparison. many times when I think about our struggles, I also think "well, at least we're not Colorado. They're horrible!"

 

[phil77]

CU regents approve $142M in athletic facilities upgrades

I wish we spent money like them lol

 

[wfschrec]

I think moving out of the Big-12 and into the PAC-12 will be the death of them. I guess ultimately I see CU and SU trending on different trajectories moving forward. From a national perspective we are still held in slightly higher regard today and unfair as it may seem we do have our hoops success to thank for that. I have friends and colleagues all across the USA who are more familiar and know more of SU than CU .. I have never seen a Buffs fan in my travels without going to Colorado however I have come across Cuse fans in many parts of the country ... because of hoops we do have a cult following and people do notice our football program because of it. I think that taints my view of national perspective of both but that is based strictly off of what I see.

I'd say its about 60/40 in favor of hoops ... I deal a lot with people who love college football and are very familiar with the history of SU even if they aren't SU fans. Bumped into a guy at a Walmart here in Georgia who was working part time in retirement and could recite more about SU football history than half this board (and I am not joking, he was no SWC but he knew his stuff) and grew up on the coast in the Carolinas. I asked him when he last saw them play and he says "Well yesterday against CMU of course" ... and while SU isn't his favorite team he will watch them and I quote "Subject his grandkids to them just because of Jimmy Brown" ... simply priceless man.

 

[wfschrec]

I wish we spent money like them lol

Oh we will ... only it will be constructing Newhouse 7 or something like that.

 

[orangeinjersey]

CU regents approve $142M in athletic facilities upgrades

Reading the article from last Christmas, funds hadnt been raised for this yet, but this quote was great...

"By the time we get ours built and ours becomes brand new, someone else will start their capital campaign, and that cycle will never end, and we're building shiny objects for 17-year-olds," Ludwig said. "It's not a core mission of the University of Colorado to run a professional athletics department, but that's the world we're in."

 

[billorange44]

Was thinking about our national perception (or lack there of), and how we were once a very good program down on the doldrums, and how we could objectively see our program without our orange colored glasses on. So as I am thinking of comparable schools/programs, one of the first to pop in my head is the University of Colorado - Boulder Buffalos


It should be 41 all-americans
SU est 1870
CU est 1876

SU enrollment - 21267
CU enrollment - 31702

SU Nat Titles - 1 (1959)
CU Nat Titles - 1 (1990)

SU Heisman - 1 (1961)
CU Heisman - 1 (1994)

SU All-Americans - 12
CU All-Americans - 30

SU Conf Titles - 5
CU Conf Titles - 26

SU Bowl Record - 15-9-1
CU Bowl Record - 12-16

SU All time record - 705-503
CU All time record - 675-463-35

Both schools had late 80's success sustained through the late 90's, and have fizzled since the early 00's since. Since 2000,

SU - 76-99
CU - 68-99

My conclusion: My perception of Colorado from a 33 yr old college football fan from the opposite coast is that CU stinks. They used to be good in the Kordell Stewart Rashaam Salam days, but not since.

This is basically how i think the rest of the country sees SU. "Yeah they were good in the MCNabb and Harrison days, but have stunk ever since.".

Anyone else agree??

 

[Delmar]

Thanks for the post, and an interesting comparison. I still regard their NC as tainted. The fifth down against (was it Missouri?). They should have forfeited that game. McCartney put himself forward as a moral leader --not so much. Our win against them in the Fiesta Bowl was one of our best days. Qadry Ishmael to Kirby Dar Dar to the end zone.

 

[Faegan]

The Buffs are my 2nd favorite college team. Three of my best friends went there, and I lived in Boulder in the mid-90s and attended game regularly while I was there. I used to think that in any season, either SU or CU would have an up year and will be fun to follow. Oh well, it used to be true. Folsom is a great place to see a game, especially if you site on the East side of the stadium and can watch the sun set over the Flatirons during the game.

 

[Scooch]

The other valid comparison is that of how generations view performance.

Those like myself who are in their 40s perceive SU and CU as once strong programs who are trying to recapture their former glory.

I suspect those under 30 look at both SU and CU as generally mediocre-to-crappy programs. And that's it. They may know some of the history but it's not relevant.

I mean you guys can talk about how we won 8 games and beat another 8 win team in a bowl game played on a weekday afternoon 4 days before Christmas, and that's great for us, but no one else really cares. And it doesn't change the perception of our program much at all since 2/3rd of college football makes a similar kind of bowl these days.

 

[orangeinjersey]

The other valid comparison is that of how generations view performance.

Those like myself who are in their 40s perceive SU and CU as once strong programs who are trying to recapture their former glory.

I suspect those under 30 look at both SU and CU as generally mediocre-to-crappy programs. And that's it. They may know some of the history but it's not relevant.

I mean you guys can talk about how we won 8 games and beat another 8 win team in a bowl game played on a weekday afternoon 4 days before Christmas, and that's great for us, but no one else really cares. And it doesn't change the perception of our program much at all since 2/3rd of college football makes a similar kind of bowl these days.

Agree with everything your saying. I'm in my early 30's, and i remember boths former glory, but you're right, to the 16 year olds we're recruiting, both teams have stunk for their whole lives.

 

[wfschrec]

The other valid comparison is that of how generations view performance.

Those like myself who are in their 40s perceive SU and CU as once strong programs who are trying to recapture their former glory.

I suspect those under 30 look at both SU and CU as generally mediocre-to-crappy programs. And that's it. They may know some of the history but it's not relevant.

I mean you guys can talk about how we won 8 games and beat another 8 win team in a bowl game played on a weekday afternoon 4 days before Christmas, and that's great for us, but no one else really cares. And it doesn't change the perception of our program much at all since 2/3rd of college football makes a similar kind of bowl these days.

Yeah but Colorado is stuck in that other 1/3

 

[sufandu]

I'd say its about 60/40 in favor of hoops ... I deal a lot with people who love college football and are very familiar with the history of SU even if they aren't SU fans. Bumped into a guy at a Walmart here in Georgia who was working part time in retirement and could recite more about SU football history than half this board (and I am not joking, he was no SWC but he knew his stuff) and grew up on the coast in the Carolinas. I asked him when he last saw them play and he says "Well yesterday against CMU of course" ... and while SU isn't his favorite team he will watch them and I quote "Subject his grandkids to them just because of Jimmy Brown" ... simply priceless man.

That sounds like an isolated incident with an old guy. Most people under 40 (probably even 50) don't even know Jim Brown went to SU. I can't count how many times I've heard "I didn't know that" when telling people or "Syracuse is just a basketball school" since moving to Tennessee. Our national football "brand" is pretty weak.

 

[wfschrec]

That sounds like an isolated incident with an old guy. Most people under 40 (probably even 50) don't even know Jim Brown went to SU. I can't count how many times I've heard "I didn't know that" when telling people or "Syracuse is just a basketball school" since moving to Tennessee. Our national football "brand" is pretty weak.

Far from isolated ... my neighbor is my age (37) and has a son who plays Lax ... kid is always running around wearing SU gear and they both know who Jim Brown is ... a former associate who is 40 and has 3 kids that play football and live in Texas all know who Jim Brown is, their favorite number is 44 ... there are a ton of people who know the brand. You might not encounter them but I travel a lot and meet people in all walks of life ... my new VP just found out I went to SU and started waxing ecstatic about football in the NE ... he lives in Colorado ... I could list examples for hours.

 

[sufandu]

Far from isolated ... my neighbor is my age (37) and has a son who plays Lax ... kid is always running around wearing SU gear and they both know who Jim Brown is ... a former associate who is 40 and has 3 kids that play football and live in Texas all know who Jim Brown is, their favorite number is 44 ... there are a ton of people who know the brand. You might not encounter them but I travel a lot and meet people in all walks of life ... my new VP just found out I went to SU and started waxing ecstatic about football in the NE ... he lives in Colorado ... I could list examples for hours.

Wow, you must be a magnet for them then. I know a ton of people that recognize us for basketball but not football.

 

[longislandcuse]

Syracuse Basketball is a Top 5 brand and we have a huge alumni presence in sports media and NYC. New Yorkers (like myself) all seem to be moving up and down the eastern seaboard so we have a huge fanbase anywhere we play on the East Coast.

Syracuse Football rides the coattails of all that and is the only reason for it's relevancy. A couple Pinstripe bowl wins and a Texas Bowl victory doesn't change anyone's perception of that. What we do have is a decent fanbase, brand that can be revived and history so if the University ever decided to invest in football, we're probably one good season away from being a name again. By good season, I mean 9-10 wins and competitive losses, fringe top 25 team.