our good friend fishy says that Syracuse adds

[Toga]

It's about brands. It nearly as hard to destroy a brand as it is to build one. It takes YEARS to build a brand. Probably the only college football brands that have been created in the past 15 years are Va Tech (pains me to admit it) and Oregon and even Oregon is soft.

Point being, is that killing a brand is nearly equally as difficult. Schools like Syracuse and Pittsburgh have built up a reputation over the years that people outside of the region don't realize how good or how bad the product is...they just know the brand. Kinda like Olive Garden - shitty food - solid brand. If NBC night news ran a story that said "Olive Garden food sucks" - a gazillion people would pay attention and watch. If NBC ran a story that said "Jake's food sucks" - nobody cares, nobody watches. Same goes for sports programming.

The ACC bought the brand, which is what the networks want - especially when it comes to 4 reasonably equal products. UCONN is an unknown and Rutgers' brand has been putrid forever. No matter how many marginal bowls they go to, it stills says Rutgers on the jersey...which is the automotive equivalent to the Edsal. UCONN is Kia. It might be good, but who the F knows.

Its not a hard concept to understand. The ACC took the best brands, because given an equal product, Pitt and SU will draw the most eyes.

One last point about how hard it is to kill a good solid brand. In 1984, Tylenol was literally killing people. But the brand had been around forever as a solid, safe pain medication. So when their CEO came out and admitted there was a problem - and it was ultimately fixed. The brand survived and thrived. Partly because of the way management responded to the crisis, partly because "Tylenol" was such a solid brand.

One measurable in terms of brand (though certainly not the only one) is where a school ranks in sports merchandise sales. This link is a bit dated (2008) but SU came in at #27, which is damn good for private school. UConn in the mid-40s. Rutgers? Nowhere to be seen.
http://www.clc.com/clcweb/publishin...ear-End+Rankings+July+1,+2007+-+June+30,+2008

 

[Moontan]

Rutgers? Nowhere to be seen.

Rutgers? Who would want to be seen with that gear? In those colors?

Rumor has it that all RutgersAl is responsible for 50% of all official Rutgers apparel purchases.

 

[Upstate]

By my calculations the current ESPN deal makes ACC teams nearly 13 mil a year. It'll sure be interesting to see what the new deal brings in.

any guesses?

It has to be between 15 and 20. easily

 

[zls44]

Its not a hard concept to understand. The ACC took the best brands, because given an equal product, Pitt and SU will draw the most eyes.

UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers all draw the same dismal TV ratings for football. You say Pitt and SU will draw the most eyes based on what exactly? A longer FB history? Then why do all the teams struggle with attendance and bowl travel?

There is what you think the reality is and what it actually is. And the two are very, very far apart. Based entirely on fact.

 

[zls44]

GET OVER IT Nelson and Fishy believe UConn is worth more than SU well THEY AREN'T IN THE MIND of ACC. Your fanbase can believe whatever they want history, tradition MATTERS to the ACC more than whatever your fanbase believes UConn can sell. UConn may make the ACC if they need a filler, but news flash to all UConn fans Syracuse brand > UConn brand, Pittsburgh brand > UConn brand. Nelson and Fishy can try selling your fanbase otherwise, but it is not true. UConn didn't turn down the ACC Swofford contacted Chan. Cantor on September 13rd, and by September 18th we were in the ACC. President Herbst WAS NOT contacted by Swofford if UConn was valued more than Syracuse they would have been contacted and invited to the ACC.

When did Pudge/RutgersAL start posting for you guys?

 

[nyucuse]

nothing of value to the ACC. He also said Pitt doesn't either. Must be that UConn adds a lot but those dumb league commish's don't know what Fishy does about sports marketing. Lucky MAC will get all that value.

Fish and many uconn fans are completely delusional about their football program. They for some reason cannot comprehend the truth - that uconn football brand equity is akin to UNH, URI and UMASS. It is literally ZERO. No one, nobody, anywhere outside of CT cares about uconn football and those in the know understand that creative scheduling has led to their modest success even with BE conference records that have typically ended up in the 2-5 to 3-4 area. The ACC does not want to dilute its football product with a no-name, nothing program.

When you are an SU or a Pitt and you hit a rough patch, you get a pass because you have a storied history. In the ACC I would say GT is a similar comp. People know of your successes and a bad hire or two does not negate what you have accomplished. The assumption from league offices is that either 1) a solid hire will allow the school to get back to where it has been in the not so distant past, and/or 2) the name recognition and national appeal of the football brand will carry weight.

Leave the state of CT and literally nobody takes uconn football seriously. Brand equity slightly higher than Villanova. That is the reality. ACC will only take uconn if its hand is forced by losing someon to the SEC. Even then I would not be surprised to see them target a football program with some clout to avoid the notion of a truly diluted football product.

 

[zibby]

Anyone who hasn't figured this out yet will never get it.

Pitt - One of Notre Dame's biggest eastern rivals
SU - Linchpin of the BE.

So the ACC now has two of ND's biggest rivals and destabilized the BE enough that ND has to think about whether they can keep their other sports there.

And maybe if Storrs State fans actually showed up to the Fiesta Bowl, they'd be in the discussion. Do they really think any conference wants to help pay for $2 million in unsold tickets?

 

[Cusefan95]

I don't recall media angst when Boston College left the Big East. There wouldn't be any angst if Rutgers or UConn left. But Syracuse leaves the Big East and half of all sports journalists blow a gasket over Cuse leaving. Interestingly I didn't hear much about Pitt in all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the move to the ACC.

Clearly Syracuse has media value that Pitt/BC/UConn/Rutgers don't.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The issue with some of these newer football programs that a lot of these fans don't understand is that it's about the brand, not who beat who yesterday. I was listening to some clown yesterday talk about how smu beating tcu should get them a look at the big 12, it was absurd. In addition at this point, Syracuse is a bit above an all time low and they are already back on the same level of rutgers and uconn regardless of who beat who on the field. Syracuse footbal has a much higher upside because of the histor and is just beginning to recommit to big time football. Uconn and rutgers ramped up 4-5 years ago and we have seen their success. Uconn also just lost a very good head coach that they will never replace

 

[dash-30-dash]

Zls, why did the acc want syracuse back in 2003? Why did they come back and get them in 2011 if there was no difference between them and rutgers and uconn? Are you and fishy saying that the acc is dumb and did no research about the schools they were going to go after? Based entirely on fact, the acc came for Syracuse twice. They haven't come for uconn and rutgers once. There must be a reason for that.

 

[orange79]

UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers all draw the same dismal TV ratings for football. You say Pitt and SU will draw the most eyes based on what exactly? A longer FB history? Then why do all the teams struggle with attendance and bowl travel?

There is what you think the reality is and what it actually is. And the two are very, very far apart. Based entirely on fact.

So why are we in the ACC and UConn isn't?

 

[Alsacs]

When did Pudge/RutgersAL start posting for you guys?

I take its as complement to be compared to the Great RutgersAl(RutgersAl is the ultimate idealist my post was being a realist), but nothing in my post is greatly exaggerated like RutgersAl if you listened to Fishy/NelsonMuntz over on your board you would believe the following. 1. UConn is more valuable than Syracuse 2. The ACC went to SU/Pitt because they couldn't turn UConn or Rutgers (this one is my favorite the ACC thinking we have to get to 14 let's take SU/Pitt because the almighty UConn and Rutgers will turn us down.) 3. UConn brand is more valuable than either Syracuse or Pitt brand. All my post was pointing is 1. No matter what you guys want to believe SU brand > UConn brand, and 2. the ACC didn't contact UConn, instead UConn president Susan Herbst has called the ACC since SU and Pitt left. Case closed as to which school is more valuable. As I said earlier I have no ill will towards UConn, but your fanbase can make outlandish comments at Syracuse all you want, but it doesn't change the fact the Syracuse brand > UConn brand. Kaiser said it earlier if you want the Northeast you need Penn State, Syracuse, Boston College, Pittsburgh well it sounds like the ACC think similar to him as Pitt, BC, and SU are now in the conference. If you want to me post UConn et al, v. Atlantic Coast Conference I would be more than glad too.

 

[orangenirvana]

UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers all draw the same dismal TV ratings for football. You say Pitt and SU will draw the most eyes based on what exactly? A longer FB history? Then why do all the teams struggle with attendance and bowl travel?

There is what you think the reality is and what it actually is. And the two are very, very far apart. Based entirely on fact.

UConn has peaked already. We've seen your ceiling. It's not great.

I know it hurts, but UConn football is nothing. That is reality.

 

[zibby]

Bruce Feldman doesn't see it, either:

From a football standpoint UCONN doesn't have that much cache. If you replaced UCONN with UCF I don't think you lose anything given the potential of UCF.

http://bruce-feldman.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/view/31626208

 

[Cuseman78]

Bruce Feldman doesn't see it, either:



http://bruce-feldman.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/view/31626208

The problem is Uconn fans are trying to use their basketball brand card (which is very strong) and trying to use it for football. It doesn't work that way. They should all just read Jakes brand post from last night. He hit the nail on the head.

Uconn football is simply irrelevant. And for all these years we had to deal with Uconn and Rutgers fans tell us that our history is irrelevant bla bla bla. I wonder if they feel the same now. Brand matters.

 

[rrlbees]

UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers all draw the same dismal TV ratings for football. You say Pitt and SU will draw the most eyes based on what exactly? A longer FB history? Then why do all the teams struggle with attendance and bowl travel?

There is what you think the reality is and what it actually is. And the two are very, very far apart. Based entirely on fact.

It may be history it may be potential. But there is a reason the ACC took SU and Pitt over UConn and Rutgers.

 

[Cadillac]

Fish and many uconn fans are completely delusional about their football program. They for some reason cannot comprehend the truth - that uconn football brand equity is akin to UNH, URI and UMASS. It is literally ZERO. No one, nobody, anywhere outside of CT cares about uconn football and those in the know understand that creative scheduling has led to their modest success even with BE conference records that have typically ended up in the 2-5 to 3-4 area. The ACC does not want to dilute its football product with a no-name, nothing program.

When you are an SU or a Pitt and you hit a rough patch, you get a pass because you have a storied history. In the ACC I would say GT is a similar comp. People know of your successes and a bad hire or two does not negate what you have accomplished. The assumption from league offices is that either 1) a solid hire will allow the school to get back to where it has been in the not so distant past, and/or 2) the name recognition and national appeal of the football brand will carry weight.

Leave the state of CT and literally nobody takes uconn football seriously. Brand equity slightly higher than Villanova. That is the reality. ACC will only take uconn if its hand is forced by losing someon to the SEC. Even then I would not be surprised to see them target a football program with some clout to avoid the notion of a truly diluted football product.

A great post.

Harsh for UConn fans, who have always struck me as enthusiastic and excited whereas RU fans come off as entitled. But this is reality.

:noidea:

 

[Jake]

UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers all draw the same dismal TV ratings for football. You say Pitt and SU will draw the most eyes based on what exactly? A longer FB history? Then why do all the teams struggle with attendance and bowl travel?

There is what you think the reality is and what it actually is. And the two are very, very far apart. Based entirely on fact.

Listen, if you don't think that Syracuse Football is a stronger brand than UCONN football, I don't know what to tell you. So tell me, you think that UCONN got asked and refused? Really?

 

[PeteCalvin]

Listen, if you don't think that Syracuse Football is a stronger brand than UCONN football, I don't know what to tell you. So tell me, you think that UCONN got asked and refused? Really?

I heard that both UConn and Louisville were offered, but Rick Pitino stepped in and said "no way, we're staying loyal". When Calhoun got back and heard this, he slapped Pitino around South Boston style.

 

[orangefan13]

Syracuse lacrosse will kill uconns. Uconn is lucky to have a division one football team. taking uconn football seriously would be like taking Dukes football team seriously all of sudden next year. They are just another cinderela wantabe hoping to rise in football.

How do you quit the team you are a diehard fan of. Especially when its someone like Syracuses caliber.
Nothing but a follower and half fan. If Uconn ended up in the Mac he would jumpship to another team so fast.

 

[PhatOrange]

UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, and Rutgers all draw the same dismal TV ratings for football. You say Pitt and SU will draw the most eyes based on what exactly? A longer FB history? Then why do all the teams struggle with attendance and bowl travel?

There is what you think the reality is and what it actually is. And the two are very, very far apart. Based entirely on fact.

Based on the fact that Syracuse is a better brand. It has a long and renowned football history. A heisman winner, a heisman runner up and a NC. It's the 14th or 15th all time winningest program. ALL TIME. Anybody who can't recognize this is a fan of startup.com. The average knucklehead football fan is more likely to tune in purely based on name brand.

syracuse didn't always have attendance issues and poor bowl travel is hurt because syracuse doesn't have 10 billion alumni like large state school U. I'd be more curious to know how attendance and bowl travel figures stack up against other private schools that all have largely the same number of students - thus similar alumni base.

Syracuse joins a conference with more similar schools. The ACC now has 5 private schools and some of the staties are viewed as private like GT. It's a good fit.

Good like in the MAC.

 

[omniorange]

Listen, if you don't think that Syracuse Football is a stronger brand than UCONN football, I don't know what to tell you. So tell me, you think that UCONN got asked and refused? Really?

Unfortunately some UConn fans feel that they were the ACC's "first or second" choice but BC blocked them. Therefore, either SU or Pitt got in ahead of them.

The Friday before it happened it was leaked the ACC was looking at Texas and Syracuse and that since Texas wouldn't come without TTU (a price the ACC wouldn't pay), Pitt moved up.

So clearly the pecking order in the ACC's mind would be ND, PSU, and UT (if any of them were willing), followed by SU and then Pitt.

This is consistent with what history tells us as well. Back in 1990 it was FSU and then SU. PSU would have been taken over either but the ACC didn't think they would be interested.

Back in 2003 it was Miami, ND, SU and BC, and then some interest in VT and Pitt. VT got in due to politics and BC got in over SU due to market and willingness.

Now it was ND, UT, SU, and Pitt. It will be interesting to see what happens in terms of UConn and Rutgers should ND be willing to become #15.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Millhouse]

nothing of value to the ACC. He also said Pitt doesn't either. Must be that UConn adds a lot but those dumb league commish's don't know what Fishy does about sports marketing. Lucky MAC will get all that value.

hopefully people will stop feeling bad for a bunch of random internet uconn fans that we have nothing in common with

who has any fun with uconn fans at the dome? seriously. good riddance.