Our RPI at the moment (sit down before reading) | Syracusefan.com

Our RPI at the moment (sit down before reading)

Yep, certainly abysmal. I pointed that out in another thread last week after that putrid defeat on the hands of UConn (our 161 RPI, 200 SOS) when some were attempting to justify the loss saying it was the Husky's Super Bowl beating us.
 
I like the schedule projection they have for us...has us winning every single home game and losing every single road game (besides BC). We'd have wins over Duke, UVa, L'ville, Pitt and FSU, but only 1 road win on the season. I have no idea how that type of resume would play for a bid.

Also, the current RPI shows how little the actual opponent can mean when you game the system. Check out Monmouth, no wins over a team with a winning record, yet are #59 because 3 of those wins have been on the road against nothing programs.
 
I'm not in any way, shape or form saying we can't turn this thing around, but we really have our work cut out for us.

I usually start checking our RPI around this time every year, and in the bad years in recent history (2006-2008, last two years) I remember us bottoming out around the 80s or 90s. But I can never remember being quite this low.
 
I don't care about the RPI. And, luckily, the selection committee over the last few years has de-emphasized it.

It doesn't do anything well that it was designed to do. Terrible indicator of schedule strength and worse indicator of the quality of wins and losses. Even worse indicator of good/bad teams for ranking purposes. It's too easy to game, especially for midmajors.

I've had this point of view for a long time, unrelated to our good and bad seasons.
 
I like the schedule projection they have for us...has us winning every single home game and losing every single road game (besides BC). We'd have wins over Duke, UVa, L'ville, Pitt and FSU, but only 1 road win on the season. I have no idea how that type of resume would play for a bid.

Also, the current RPI shows how little the actual opponent can mean when you game the system. Check out Monmouth, no wins over a team with a winning record, yet are #59 because 3 of those wins have been on the road against nothing programs.

Due to us not having any considered "good" out of conference wins and with no chance of obtaining any per our remaining schedule, we will need to do some serious damage in the ACC regular season, in which, that will include (imo) having to win a "good" game or two on the road.
 
I'm not in any way, shape or form saying we can't turn this thing around, but we really have our work cut out for us.

I usually start checking our RPI around this time every year, and in the bad years in recent history (2006-2008, last two years) I remember us bottoming out around the 80s or 90s. But I can never remember being quite this low.

We certainly do. SU has not reached the dance in 25 years when losing 3 out of conference games in 1 season.
 
Due to us not having any considered "good" out of conference wins and with no chance of obtaining any per our remaining schedule, we will need to do some serious damage in the ACC regular season, in which, that will include (imo) having to win a "good" game or two on the road.

Yep, we were NIT bound last year if we hadn't beaten UConn and A&M in November. 9-9 with 1 or 2 good conference wins(and a first round loss in the conference tourney) are in no way good enough this year.
 
They are projecting us losing every single road game except for @ BC. That, combined with a 10-8 conference record should be just the ticket for a trip to the NIT. Wins at home against Virginia, Louisville, and Duke would be big though. I know it takes a little time sometimes to get the Titanic turned back around, but JB needs to get this thing turned around fast.
 
I like the schedule projection they have for us...has us winning every single home game and losing every single road game (besides BC). We'd have wins over Duke, UVa, L'ville, Pitt and FSU, but only 1 road win on the season. I have no idea how that type of resume would play for a bid.

Also, the current RPI shows how little the actual opponent can mean when you game the system. Check out Monmouth, no wins over a team with a winning record, yet are #59 because 3 of those wins have been on the road against nothing programs.

Greenberg's VT team tried that. It didn't work.
 
I don't care about the RPI. And, luckily, the selection committee over the last few years has de-emphasized it.

It doesn't do anything well that it was designed to do. Terrible indicator of schedule strength and worse indicator of the quality of wins and losses. Even worse indicator of good/bad teams for ranking purposes. It's too easy to game, especially for midmajors.

I've had this point of view for a long time, unrelated to our good and bad seasons.


Correct. And RPI is pretty much the worst of all the advanced metrics. It takes into account more who you play than who you beat or lose to.

We could lose 5 games in a row against Duke/UNC/Virginia etc and our RPI would go up. We could win 5 games in a row against cupcakes and it could go down.

BPI has us 19th and Kenpom has us 27th. Those metrics are better for prediction than RPI is.
 
I mean, I'm obviously happy to hear that BPI has us 19th, but how can any metric that has us currently as the 19th best team in the country be taken seriously?

This explains it. Oliver: Explaining the new BPI

RPI doesn't even take into account the scores of games. See below.

Rating college basketball teams is mainly about identifying NCAA tournament teams. The tournament itself decides who is the ultimate champion, but who deserves to be there?

There are arguments every year regarding fringe teams. ESPN Bracketologist Joe Lunardi will tell you who is likely to make it. Jay Bilas and other ESPN college basketball analysts want to be able to tell you who should make it. To that end, they asked the ESPN Analytics Department to help them. What we created is this, the College Basketball Power Index, or BPI for short.

Other power rankings already exist, the most prominent being the RPI, Sagarin Ratings, Massey Ratings and Ken Pomeroy's ("Kenpom") ratings. All of these methods are based upon the outcomes of games, their location -- home/road/neutral -- and the quality of opponents. Each one basically puts these together in slightly different ways and arrives at slightly different results.

RPI, due to its simplicity, tends to be the biggest decision aid for the NCAA tournament committee, even though it doesn't account for the actual scores of games. Kenpom and our BPI system both account for the varying pace that teams can play, which is an important analytical component of evaluating basketball teams. But we believe the BPI is a little more refined than any other existing power ranking.

There are a number of small details that we have in our methodology to make it reflective of a résumé for a tournament team -- these are pretty technical and many people won't be interested, so we won't go into detail, but we think they improve how the tool works.

On top of this, we decided to incorporate a little bit more information than the other power ranking systems use. In particular, we added a way of accounting for missing players.

If a team or its opponent is missing one of its most important players (determined by minutes per game) for a contest, that game is less important for ranking the teams compared to games in which both teams are at full strength.

Every season has teams for whom missing players can be important. In 2011-12, for example, Syracuse center Fab Melo missed three games in the middle of the season and, in that stretch, the Orange lost their first game of the year. He returned for the rest of the regular season and Syracuse lost only once more – in the Big East Conference Tournament. Over all these games, the three games without Melo get weighted a little less – in proportion to how much he played regularly – towards their season BPI. This means that the loss to Notre Dame while he was out, though it lowers Syracuse's BPI, lowers it less than had they lost by the same amount with him in the lineup.

The Melo case is a useful example of how BPI also can help evaluate a team when a player presence for the NCAA Tournament itself is in question. Although the regular season BPI had Syracuse second with a BPI of 90 entering the Tournament, it turned out that Melo wouldn't be eligible and Syracuse wasn't necessarily the same team that BPI was evaluating. BPI is available on a game-by-game basis, so you can look at the three games that Melo missed and see what Syracuse's BPI was in those games– it was 41 against Notre Dame, 96 against Cincinnati, and 84 against West Virginia, for an average of 74. These are still opponent-adjusted and still adjusted for home/road/neutral, so the profile paints a picture that can be useful for identifying Tournament teams or adjusting seeds. If Melo hadn't missed any games during the season, one could still look at games where he played relatively few minutes to see if there was an effect.

Another way that BPI can rank teams differently than Sagarin or Kenpom is counting close games at home versus on the road. In BPI, a close win at home is better than a close loss on the road against the same opponent. This isn't necessarily true in other methods and, in methods that do that, they don't typically account for bigger wins. BPI gives marginally decreasing credit for bigger wins, with a 30-point win being only about 20 percent better than a 15-point win, not twice as good, which can happen in other methods.



By capturing blowouts, but not overweighting them, BPI credits the ability of good teams to easily beat poor teams without providing incentive to win by 30 when 20 is a safe margin. By capturing both blowouts and close games in this way, BPI summarizes a team's résumé for the NCAA tournament well.

By reflecting a résumé, BPI was not explicitly built to make predictions. But, in tests, its ability to predict appears to be as good or better than Sagarin or RPI at predicting results in the NCAA tournament and NIT.

Between the 2007 and 2011 NCAA tournaments, it picked 74.4 percent of the matchups correctly, whereas Sagarin picked 73.2 percent and RPI picked 71.9 percent. (Kenpom is more difficult to evaluate because its pre-tournament rankings are not available.) The average ranking of the NIT finalists was better in BPI than in Sagarin or RPI. Notice, of course, that many of these differences are small. The BPI is not a guaranteed way to pick a perfect bracket, but we do think it is the best power ranking available.

Ultimately, the College Basketball Power Index gives us a tool for rating teams that is more useful for ESPN than existing tools. It explains a team's wins and losses in a more detailed context and seemingly predicts future results as well as other tools, if not better. It also incorporates information about injuries and missed games that should be relevant for weighting the résumés of bubble teams on Selection Sunday. We feel confident that it will enhance coverage of college basketball for years to come.
 
these formulas also assume the score of a game reflects how the game was played.. sometimes you are up 10 and the game is never in doubt.. other times you can be up 20 and mess around and make it a game.
 
I mean, I'm obviously happy to hear that BPI has us 19th, but how can any metric that has us currently as the 19th best team in the country be taken seriously?

South Carolina on a neutral court and Wisconsin away are 'good' losses. Those are two tournament teams (or SC was before that suspension). UConn is the only bad loss and it was a close game on a neutral court. Outside of that, we've more or less crushed the cupcakes.
 
Our OOC schedule strength really reveals itself when you compare our projected RPI vs. other ACC schools.

Projected Record and RPI

RPI Forecast

Wake Forest 16-14, RPI 44
Clemson 18-12, RPI 47
Syracuse 19-12, RPI 60
Pitt 16-15, RPI 63

That being said at 19-12, our RPI is still #60. Those decent RPI of Wake, Pitt and Clemson, despite weak records really show how we the number will be influenced by the strength of the ACC this year.

If we get to 20-11, our RPI will be around 50 and I can't see how you get 10 ACC wins without getting some top 50 wins. As I said before I have I am fairly certain we get in at 20 wins... the challenge will be getting to 20 wins.
 
South Carolina on a neutral court and Wisconsin away are 'good' losses. Those are two tournament teams (or SC was before that suspension). UConn is the only bad loss and it was a close game on a neutral court. Outside of that, we've more or less crushed the cupcakes.

And UConn might not even be considered a bad loss by year end. They are projecting at RPI 119 based on going 8-10 in the AAC. If they can go 10-8 it will not be considered a bad loss.

We are missing the Texas AM and UConn level wins, but we also don't have a sub 200 RPI loss on our resume this year either unless UConn really goes into the crapper.
 
I don't care about the RPI. And, luckily, the selection committee over the last few years has de-emphasized it.

It doesn't do anything well that it was designed to do. Terrible indicator of schedule strength and worse indicator of the quality of wins and losses. Even worse indicator of good/bad teams for ranking purposes. It's too easy to game, especially for midmajors.

I've had this point of view for a long time, unrelated to our good and bad seasons.

You are generally right. It does a poor job and your individual number will not hurt you in iteself.

The only but, and this is of course contradictory, is that it does mean something when they assess the quality of your wins (top 50)
 
Due to us not having any considered "good" out of conference wins and with no chance of obtaining any per our remaining schedule, we will need to do some serious damage in the ACC regular season, in which, that will include (imo) having to win a "good" game or two on the road.

Those top road wins would really help, but not sure if necessary assuming we get to 10 ACC wims . There are still P5 teams that have received invites by only getting top 50 wins on home floors. Consider some of the instances from last year alone.


Vanderbilt 2016 - Only one top 50 win on a road or neutral court but it was against an NIT Team in Florida.

Tulsa 2016 - 3 top 50 wins (all at home)

USC 2016 - Got an 8 seed despite the only quality road or neutral victory being against Wichita on a neutral floor. They only went 9-9 in the PAC 12, had no quality road wins, but since the RPI really loved the PAC12, they were able to pile up 4 top 50 home wins to get a ridiculous #8 seed.
 
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They are projecting us losing every single road game except for @ BC. That, combined with a 10-8 conference record should be just the ticket for a trip to the NIT. Wins at home against Virginia, Louisville, and Duke would be big though. I know it takes a little time sometimes to get the Titanic turned back around, but JB needs to get this thing turned around fast.

Likely incorrect. See USC resume in 2016 which garnered a #8 seed by beating a bunch of Pac 12 tourney schools (and not even Oregon the only top seed)
 
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They are projecting us losing every single road game except for @ BC. That, combined with a 10-8 conference record should be just the ticket for a trip to the NIT. Wins at home against Virginia, Louisville, and Duke would be big though. I know it takes a little time sometimes to get the Titanic turned back around, but JB needs to get this thing turned around fast.

I doubt SU will win every ACC home game and I doubt we will win only one ACC road game. We could very easily beat NC State, Clemson and GT on the road.
 
I like the schedule projection they have for us...has us winning every single home game and losing every single road game (besides BC). We'd have wins over Duke, UVa, L'ville, Pitt and FSU, but only 1 road win on the season. I have no idea how that type of resume would play for a bid.

Also, the current RPI shows how little the actual opponent can mean when you game the system. Check out Monmouth, no wins over a team with a winning record, yet are #59 because 3 of those wins have been on the road against nothing programs.

Or just schedule some road games
 
Interesting back and forth you are having. I have a rule that I don't talk about RPI until February. I prefer to not spending my time talking about crap that doesn't matter. You guys have fun though. If you guys want to really have some fun you should talk about the 2020 Presidential election.
 

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